Negative Repel

[Steampunkette]

Personally I'd love to see a "Telekinetic Control" set that is all about Vertical Repel effects lifting enemies into the air instead of 'just' immobilizing them. Lots of knock-around stuff. Up. Down. Toward. Away. Slamming people into walls and each other.

 

GASP. A "Cluster" power that sucks everyone inward onto the targeted enemy with KB or Repel vectored inward.

 

HNNNNN... I WANTS IT

[Zepp]

Gravitic Melee looks a lot more doable and fun than it did a couple of posts ago...

[Redlynne]

Gravity CONTROL might even benefit from this kind of a "do over" of basic fundamental game mechanics.

 

Then again, I always wished the Paragon Stuidos devs would come back and backport the Soul Storm "tumbling in the air" Hold animation into Gravity Distortion, while keeping the old Gravity FX around the animation (so that Soul Storm would still look unique, just not AS unique).

[Vanden]

Maybe they could make it so all foes caught in Telekinesis travel in the exact same direction, rather than being repelled from the caster, causing them to spread out and eventually get loose from the effect. That’d be very handy.

[Redlynne]

10 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Maybe they could make it so all foes caught in Telekinesis travel in the exact same direction, rather than being repelled from the caster, causing them to spread out and eventually get loose from the effect. That’d be very handy.

Counter-proposal.

Every $Target within the radius of Telekinesis are drawn TOWARDS the Anchor $Target.

 

Oh and increase the Max Targets for Telekinesis above FIVE(!!) ...

[Steampunkette]

9 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Maybe they could make it so all foes caught in Telekinesis travel in the exact same direction, rather than being repelled from the caster, causing them to spread out and eventually get loose from the effect. That’d be very handy.

For that the emanation point would have to be relative to the target and an environmental point that is either common to all targets within the effect. But no single horizontal point could ever be in the same relative position to push them in the same direction and it would require multiple emanation points per target.

 

So the only logical option would be "Under", since the X/Y/Z is by nature already defined for each entity based on it's grid coordinates in "three dimensional space" as perceived (and constructed) by the game's engine.

 

Unless there have been some, frankly, insane levels of changes that would allow for a single vectored cone to contain different vectored repels based on inverse angles relative to the central line of the cone to force secondary targets toward the center while being repelled from the caster at an oblique to keep them on-line.

 

3 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Counter-proposal.

Every $Target within the radius of Telekinesis are drawn TOWARDS the Anchor $Target.

 

Oh and increase the Max Targets for Telekinesis above FIVE(!!) ...

Oh. Yes. That would work INFINITELY better! Two separate Repel Effects, one of which is turned inward as an aura around the initial target, one which is a cone -targeting- the target and emanating from the caster.

 

Brilliant idea, Redlynne!

 

 

[Zepp]

3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Oh. Yes. That would work INFINITELY better! Two separate Repel Effects, one of which is turned inward as an aura around the initial target, one which is a cone -targeting- the target and emanating from the caster.

 

That would take three repel effects. Two to define the sides of the cone and a final one at target with a short range, high frequency, high magnitude repel to keep them in-between you and the target.

[Steampunkette]

1 minute ago, Zepp said:

That would take three repel effects. Two to define the sides of the cone and a final one at target with a short range, high frequency, high magnitude repel to keep them in-between you and the target.

Nope. A Cone is a straightforward cone which has a center line between you and the initial target. It's 'edges' are defined by the area (Usually between 30 and 45 degrees). 

 

That First Repel would push enemies away from you in a direct line, including potentially out of the cone's area (No way to avoid it, really)

 

The Second Repel would be a circle with a radius attached to your primary target (All areas of effect are cones or circles, unless the i25 changes implemented by SCORE include other shapes), but use the i25 vector changes to focus inward, drawing enemies toward the one you're pushing back.

 

Thus enemies get pushed away from you by the cone and into the circle which draws them closer to the center while you're still pushing them away.

[Zepp]

I could see that working. However, wouldn't it make more sense to have a Cone and a Targeted AoE (at maximum range) in order to simplify the math, prevent errors if there are targeting issues, and demonstrate a visible results in the situation of a single target? Also, possibly have the TAoE vector be towards the center of the circle at 20-30° relative to the x-axis?

[Steampunkette]

2 minutes ago, Zepp said:

I could see that working. However, wouldn't it make more sense to have a Cone and a Targeted AoE (at maximum range) in order to simplify the math, prevent errors if there are targeting issues, and demonstrate a visible results in the situation of a single target? Also, possibly have the TAoE vector be towards the center of the circle at 20-30° relative to the x-axis?

Creating the circle at maximum range wouldn't simplify the math at all, since it would require a secondary pseudopet. It also wouldn't fix any of the problems since people would be slipping out of the cone -before- reaching the end of it (and thus sliding into the circle). Further, it would suck any enemies near the circle to the center, while other characters are slowly pushed toward the circle before they, too, slipped into the center.

 

I'm not certain if they could do the 20-30 degree axial tilt, but if they could it would create a nice 'Orbit' effect, I guess?

[Number Six]

One other thing I want to do is to add a thin shell of inverse Repel to the outer edge of the Group Fly effect, applicable to friendlies of course.

 

One of the big issues with it, especially for masterminds and their pets, is stuff falling out of the bubble. That would give it a bit of cushion, so entities about to fall out of the flight field would get a gentle nudge back inside. Low enough magnitude so that a player could push through it to get out if you want.

[biostem]

9 minutes ago, Number Six said:

One other thing I want to do is to add a thin shell of inverse Repel to the outer edge of the Group Fly effect, applicable to friendlies of course.

 

One of the big issues with it, especially for masterminds and their pets, is stuff falling out of the bubble. That would give it a bit of cushion, so entities about to fall out of the flight field would get a gentle nudge back inside. Low enough magnitude so that a player could push through it to get out if you want.

Wouldn't a way to command your pets to follow much more closely serve this purpose better?  I almost wish we could "leash" the MM pets to us, so they literally get dragged along with us, instead of the kind of loose attachment they currently have...

Edited September 3, 2019 by biostem

[Steampunkette]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Wouldn't a way to command your pets to follow much more closely serve this purpose better?  I almost wish we could "leash" the MM pets to us, so they literally get dragged along with us, instead of the kind of loose attachment they currently have...

Latency, Crowding issues, and server cycles are the reason for that.

 

Right now the Support NPCs check every few cycles to see if you're 'too far' and they have to move over to be near you. To get them to follow more closely means increasing the frequency of those checks. Which increases the cost on resources for MM pets just to exist. Even if the check comes back "You're close enough" it still takes a check and a response.

 

Crowding has different issues that are more of a socially contextual problem.

 

And then Latency, first listed, last expounded upon, 'cause that's kind of how Latency is! In situations where high ping crops up you'd be right back where you started with the NPCs not following closely enough with the added resource drain of them fruitlessly checking that you're in range before the latency equalizes and they have to haul ass to catch up.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

Latency, Crowding issues, and server cycles are the reason for that.

 

Right now the Support NPCs check every few cycles to see if you're 'too far' and they have to move over to be near you. To get them to follow more closely means increasing the frequency of those checks. Which increases the cost on resources for MM pets just to exist. Even if the check comes back "You're close enough" it still takes a check and a response.

 

Crowding has different issues that are more of a socially contextual problem.

 

And then Latency, first listed, last expounded upon, 'cause that's kind of how Latency is! In situations where high ping crops up you'd be right back where you started with the NPCs not following closely enough with the added resource drain of them fruitlessly checking that you're in range before the latency equalizes and they have to haul ass to catch up.

I see.  What about a way to "collapse" your pets onto yourself, then release them once you're at your destination?  Like, a mass unsummon power, then a mass re-summon power, (perhaps require your pets be at full health in order to do this), like how your pets are basically killed then resummoned with all their upgrades intact, when you zone...

[Steampunkette]

Just now, biostem said:

I see.  What about a way to "collapse" your pets onto yourself, then release them once you're at your destination?  Like, a mass unsummon power, then a mass re-summon power, (perhaps require your pets be at full health in order to do this), like how your pets are basically killed then resummoned with all their upgrades intact, when you zone...

That would actually require someting like 12 different powers within the engine to register a list of which pets are out and which pets aren't when you click the "Desummon" power. And then that would put a contextually relevant "Buff" on you for the resummoning effect.

 

Well that's not -entirely- true... you'd need a LOT MORE than 12. Since you'd need to include things like "Does pet 1a have Pet Empowerment A on them? Does pet 1b? Does pet 1c? Does pet 2a? 2b? 3? What about Pet Empowerment B?"

 

Since which pets have which buffs would need to be pre-loaded into the 'buff' that you get which allows you to use the Resummon power.

 

 

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

That would actually require someting like 12 different powers within the engine to register a list of which pets are out and which pets aren't when you click the "Desummon" power. And then that would put a contextually relevant "Buff" on you for the resummoning effect.

 

Well that's not -entirely- true... you'd need a LOT MORE than 12. Since you'd need to include things like "Does pet 1a have Pet Empowerment A on them? Does pet 1b? Does pet 1c? Does pet 2a? 2b? 3? What about Pet Empowerment B?"

 

Since which pets have which buffs would need to be pre-loaded into the 'buff' that you get which allows you to use the Resummon power.

 

 

Well, can't you just make use of whatever subroutine gets invoked when you zone?  I mean, I know I'm drastically oversimplifying things here, but a function like that already exists.  I mean, I guess an alternative would be a special form of "passive" that you command your pets with, which basically phases them out and makes them invisible while you travel...

[Steampunkette]

Just now, biostem said:

Well, can't you just make use of whatever subroutine gets invoked when you zone?  I mean, I know I'm drastically oversimplifying things here, but a function like that already exists.  I mean, I guess an alternative would be a special form of "passive" that you command your pets with, which basically phases them out and makes them invisible while you travel...

Honestly I don't understand the Wizardry involved in making them desummon and resummon when you walk onto a different map. It didn't -used- to work that way. You used to have to resummon your pets any time you swapped maps!

 

Maybe that would work? But it could also be abused... like in Stealthing missions. Desummon pets, Stalker gets to the boss, Recall Friend, Resummon. 

 

So maybe it would need a decently large recharge? I dunno...

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Honestly I don't understand the Wizardry involved in making them desummon and resummon when you walk onto a different map. It didn't -used- to work that way. You used to have to resummon your pets any time you swapped maps!

 

Maybe that would work? But it could also be abused... like in Stealthing missions. Desummon pets, Stalker gets to the boss, Recall Friend, Resummon. 

 

So maybe it would need a decently large recharge? I dunno...

Understood & so-noted.  Maybe if your pets are at full health, unsummoing them could just instantly recharge the associated summon power, and maybe they could add a meta-upgrade power, which only becomes available if you have both of the upgrade powers already, and both are recharged, which applies both upgrades at once...

[Number Six]

That's all kind of a red herring, since players falling out of it is another reason that it isn't even useful for niche things like fighting rikti dropships.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Number Six said:

That's all kind of a red herring, since players falling out of it is another reason that it isn't even useful for niche things like fighting rikti dropships.

This would require a lot of work, but what if 'group fly' was simply changed to an ally-targeted toggle, which was applied in an AoE - said allies then retain flight until you deactivate the toggle or they cancel the power from under their status bar?  Maybe give it a range of 100' or something if it'd be too good otherwise, (so there's no need for them to stay in the bubble)...

Edited September 3, 2019 by biostem

[Zepp]

There would still be a bubble...

[Redlynne]

11 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Oh. Yes. That would work INFINITELY better! Two separate Repel Effects, one of which is turned inward as an aura around the initial target, one which is a cone -targeting- the target and emanating from the caster.

 

Brilliant idea, Redlynne!

I was thinking in terms of keeping the Target Anchor AoE functionality of the power as is.

 

What you'd do game mechanically is have 2 "auras" of Repel around the Anchor $Target.

• The "larger" aura radius applies a (for lack of a better descriptor) +2 Repel Towards the Anchor, drawing stuff in closer to the Anchor.
• The "smaller" aura radius would apply a -1 Repel Towards the Anchor (so net +1 Towards the Anchor) and a +1 Repel Perpendicular to the Anchor.  The net result would be +1 Inwards (so slower than in the "outer band") and +1 Sideways ... causing additional $Targets to (slowly) "orbit" the Anchor when inside the "smaller" aura radius.

After that, it's just a matter of making sure that the Anchor is not affected by the Repel of the power (so it doesn't try to "orbit itself") and you've got a "pull into orbiting" style of involuntary movement effect while everything (up to the Max Targets limit) is subject to a MAG 3 Hold.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Zepp said:

There would still be a bubble...

Except that there's no bubble that you have to remain in - the caster uses the power, and anyone in the initial AoE gets tagged with the power and gains fly, as long as the toggle is maintained, regardless of whether you remain in the AoE in which the power was initially cast.

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Except that there's no bubble that you have to remain in - the caster uses the power, and anyone in the initial AoE gets tagged with the power and gains fly, as long as the toggle is maintained, regardless of whether you remain in the AoE in which the power was initially cast.

Oh, so make it like Group Invisibility, only with flying...

[Leogunner]

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

Oh, so make it like Group Invisibility, only with flying...

Could use the temp power tray like mystic flight and translation.