Thoughts on ice armor

[graeberguinn]

Like title says. Any one played Ice? Would for a theme I have in mind. How does it perform? What are good/skip powers

[biostem]

I played an ice armor/stone melee tanker on live, so my experience may be a bit outdated.  That being said, I would generally save permafrost until ater, if there are other powers you'd rather take.  While, over the long term, icicles will actually be one of your most damaging powers, you can always grab it later, and primarily rely upon chilling embrace to help keep aggro on you.  Hibernate can be a great "oh sh*t" power, but IIRC, it can cause you to lose enemy aggro, which can be very dangerous when teamed.  Do slot up energy absorption ASAP, as it is a real game-changer!

[Generator]

On 9/4/2019 at 5:40 PM, biostem said:

I played an ice armor/stone melee tanker on live, so my experience may be a bit outdated.  That being said, I would generally save permafrost until ater, if there are other powers you'd rather take.  While, over the long term, icicles will actually be one of your most damaging powers, you can always grab it later, and primarily rely upon chilling embrace to help keep aggro on you.  Hibernate can be a great "oh sh*t" power, but IIRC, it can cause you to lose enemy aggro, which can be very dangerous when teamed.  Do slot up energy absorption ASAP, as it is a real game-changer!

Does the Sentinel version even have icicles? I think in a lot of the other similar sets, the damage aura is the one that gets lost on the changeover to this archetype.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Generator
Spotted typos

[biostem]

Just now, Generator said:

Does the Sentinel version even have icicles? I think I'm a lot of the other similar sets, the damage or is the one that gets lost on the changeover to this archetype.

I'm so sorry!  For some reason, I thought this was about tankers.  *facepalms*  Ice armor is a good overall set, but I can only really speak about it in regards to tankers.  My apologies...

[oldskool]

16 minutes ago, Generator said:

Does the Sentinel version even have icicles? I think I'm a lot of the other similar sets, the damage or is the one that gets lost on the changeover to this archetype.

Sentinel Ice Armor is dramatically different from the Tanker version.  Icicles is replaced by Moisture Absorption, there is no Energy Absorption (replaced with Frost Protection), and Hibernate is exchanged for Icy Bastion.  In some ways, Sentinel Ice is more like Stalker Ice Armor.  The sleep toggle isn't available though.  

I haven't played Sentinel Ice Armor though.  I'm trying to think of a theme to go with an Ice Blast/Ice Armor/Ice Mastery character. 

[Generator]

1 hour ago, oldskool said:

Sentinel Ice Armor is dramatically different from the Tanker version.  Icicles is replaced by Moisture Absorption, there is no Energy Absorption (replaced with Frost Protection), and Hibernate is exchanged for Icy Bastion.  In some ways, Sentinel Ice is more like Stalker Ice Armor.  The sleep toggle isn't available though.  

I haven't played Sentinel Ice Armor though.  I'm trying to think of a theme to go with an Ice Blast/Ice Armor/Ice Mastery character. 

I have a few unused concepts from back in the day that could certainly become an Ice Sentinel, but now I want to take a look at the powers and see what the specific difference is from Tanker version of the set.

[Pharce]

On 9/5/2019 at 12:38 AM, oldskool said:

Sentinel Ice Armor is dramatically different from the Tanker version.  Icicles is replaced by Moisture Absorption, there is no Energy Absorption (replaced with Frost Protection), and Hibernate is exchanged for Icy Bastion.  In some ways, Sentinel Ice is more like Stalker Ice Armor.  The sleep toggle isn't available though.  

I haven't played Sentinel Ice Armor though.  I'm trying to think of a theme to go with an Ice Blast/Ice Armor/Ice Mastery character. 

Snow Ball Boy the perpetual cheery sidekick? If only would could make him round and awkward  looking.

[WumpusRat]

On 9/4/2019 at 3:38 PM, oldskool said:

Sentinel Ice Armor is dramatically different from the Tanker version.  Icicles is replaced by Moisture Absorption, there is no Energy Absorption (replaced with Frost Protection), and Hibernate is exchanged for Icy Bastion.  In some ways, Sentinel Ice is more like Stalker Ice Armor.  The sleep toggle isn't available though.  

I haven't played Sentinel Ice Armor though.  I'm trying to think of a theme to go with an Ice Blast/Ice Armor/Ice Mastery character. 

I have one that I'm leveling up. Still a lowbie, though. It's one of a whole slew of characters I've made that follow the same theme: they're all summoned elementals, so they all follow a very tight theme with their powers. Fire/fire/fire, ice/ice/ice, earth/earth/earth, etc. I did try a bunch of thrown-together builds for them on justin, and while they're certainly not optimized in any way and don't use incarnate abilities, they're decent for testing general damage output and durability. My standard test is to throw them up against +1/8/boss malta and see how they do. If they roflstomp their way through malta, then I deem them a success. :)

[Force Redux]

The Absorption toggle makes this armor set shine at level 22. With Bastion, at T9, I'm sure it's even better. This on my new Ice/Ice.

 

Some good layers:

Defense

Absorption

Health boost

Resists

 

I could toss my build up if you like. Probably far from perfect as I'm used to positional Defense sets, but I'm working with capping S/L/E/N.  

Edited September 11, 2019 by Force Redux

[Cutter]

I'd be interested in a build. Got an Ice/Ice languishing at 20 for weeks now.

[ParaBruce]

On 9/11/2019 at 4:53 AM, Force Redux said:

I could toss my build up if you like. Probably far from perfect as I'm used to positional Defense sets, but I'm working with capping S/L/E/N.  

Yes, please do!

 

[Hyperstrike]

Here's an option on a very Tanky Ice/Ice Sentinel.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Ice Blast
Secondary Power Set: Ice Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ice Blast -- Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg:50(3), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(7)
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(7), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(9)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg:50(9), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg:50(11), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(11)
Level 4: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(15)
Level 6: Chilling Ray -- Thn-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(17), Thn-Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(19), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21)
Level 8: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 10: Frigid Shield -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux:50(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(23), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg:50(23), Pnc-Heal:50(25)
Level 12: Aim -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(25), RctRtc-Pcptn:20(27)
Level 14: Ice Storm -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(29), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb:50(31)
Level 16: Moisture Absorption -- Rct-Def:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(31), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(33), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(33), RechRdx-I:50(33)
Level 18: Bitter Ice Blast -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(34), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(36), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(36)
Level 20: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(36), Rct-ResDam%:50(37)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam:50(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39)
Level 24: Weave -- Rct-Def:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(39)
Level 26: Bitter Freeze Ray -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold:50(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg:50(39), SprEnt-End/Rchg:50(40), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End:50(40), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg:50(40), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc:50(42)
Level 28: Permafrost -- GldArm-3defTpProc:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam:50(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(43), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(43)
Level 32: Blizzard -- SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprOppStr-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity:50(46)
Level 35: Frost Protection -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(46), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(48), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(48), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(48), Prv-Absorb%:50(50)
Level 38: Icy Bastion -- Ags-Psi/Status:50(A)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 44: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(50)
Level 47: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB:50(A)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(13), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(15)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
------------

 

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[Pharce]

This inspired me to start levelling a ice/ice. 

 

What the heck is frigid shield? Tried it between lvl 15-20. didn't really use it then respected out of it. Does it get better?

 

Second, just looked at the defenses that i have all base and noticed no positional defenses. like i said i'm only 20 right now but that seems like it could be a problem. any thoughts?

 

[Generator]

Ice Armor is all Typed defenses (as is Energy Aura, and the Defense portions, of Invuln, and most of the others I can think of).  If you want positional defenses on a Sentinel, I think you're looking at SR or bust. (Melee ATs can also use Shield for that, but that's not an option for Sentinels.)

[Cutter]

1 hour ago, Pharce said:

This inspired me to start levelling a ice/ice. 

 

What the heck is frigid shield? Tried it between lvl 15-20. didn't really use it then respected out of it. Does it get better?

 

Second, just looked at the defenses that i have all base and noticed no positional defenses. like i said i'm only 20 right now but that seems like it could be a problem. any thoughts?

 

Frigid Shield is an absorb toggle, basically a constantly refreshing blip of temporary hit points. Seems like it needs heal slotting to be really effective.

 

10 minutes ago, Generator said:

Ice Armor is all Typed defenses (as is Energy Aura, and the Defense portions, of Invuln, and most of the others I can think of).  If you want positional defenses on a Sentinel, I think you're looking at SR or bust. (Melee ATs can also use Shield for that, but that's not an option for Sentinels.)

Ninjutsu also offers positional defenses.

[Generator]

11 minutes ago, Cutter said:

Ninjutsu also offers positional defenses.

Of course, thanks.  These are the perils of speaking when I'm away from my game PC and Mids.  😁

[Pharce]

Hmmm... I'm have heard positional is "better" than typed. Mainly cause you are only chasing three areas to soft cap, as opposed to all the types. While we are on the subject. How does positional work with typed defenses? What i'm asking is if I theoretically soft capped melee then had a soft capped typed like S/L. do the 2 together create a better benefit? or just one or the other is enough? I know this is all theoretical I'm just trying to understand how the 2 work together.

[Force Redux]

The best defense works vs an attack. They do not stack.

 

So if you have 25% ranged defense and 45% Energy defense, and are attacked by a ranged energy attack, your 45% Energy defense is what will be used. 

 

Frigid shield is amazing, really helps prevent death be a thousand cuts and reduces the blow of more damaging attacks. It's another layer in Ice's yummy protection.

 

@ParaBruce I'll try to get my own build up later.

 

Ty @Hyperstrike for posting your build!

Edited September 14, 2019 by Force Redux

[Pharce]

3 hours ago, Force Redux said:

The best defense works vs an attack. They do not stack.

 

So if you have 25% ranged defense and 45% Energy defense, and are attacked by a ranged energy attack, your 45% Energy defense is what will be used. 

 

Frigid shield is amazing, really helps prevent death be a thousand cuts and reduces the blow of more damaging attacks. It's another later in Ice's yummy protection.

 

@ParaBruce I'll try to get my own build up later.

 

Ty @Hyperstrike for posting your build!

That helps thank you.

[Hopeling]

7 hours ago, Pharce said:

Hmmm... I'm have heard positional is "better" than typed. Mainly cause you are only chasing three areas to soft cap, as opposed to all the types.

Eh, this is only slightly true. Typed defenses come in pairs, so there's still only three things to chase: S/L, E/N, and F/C.

 

Psi is an issue for typed defense sets, as is Toxic (there's not even such thing as toxic defense). But these aren't common enough to be large problems.

[Pharce]

14 hours ago, Hopeling said:

Eh, this is only slightly true. Typed defenses come in pairs, so there's still only three things to chase: S/L, E/N, and F/C.

 

Psi is an issue for typed defense sets, as is Toxic (there's not even such thing as toxic defense). But these aren't common enough to be large problems.

That is an interesting point i had not seen or thought of before. 

[drbuzzard]

On 9/13/2019 at 10:25 AM, Pharce said:

Hmmm... I'm have heard positional is "better" than typed. Mainly cause you are only chasing three areas to soft cap, as opposed to all the types. While we are on the subject. How does positional work with typed defenses? What i'm asking is if I theoretically soft capped melee then had a soft capped typed like S/L. do the 2 together create a better benefit? or just one or the other is enough? I know this is all theoretical I'm just trying to understand how the 2 work together.

I believe it is generally easier to softcap positional defenses as the IO bonuses are more common. In addition to that, it protects you from things the typed defenses usually don't cover. Arguably my 'main' is my sonic/energy aura, and while he's very durable, he's got fairly glaring holes to psi and toxic. Luckily those are not common enough that I can't get by them with judicious use of barrier.

[Generator]

On 9/12/2019 at 1:13 PM, Hyperstrike said:

Here's an option on a very Tanky Ice/Ice Sentinel.

I'm curious, why a Rchg IO in Wet Ice?

[Cendwar]

As someone who played an ice/ice tanker on live before frozen aura even did pbaoe damage, I feel like Ice has the most holes in it out of any of the other sets. Ice can still work, but it takes extra effort to build around. The set offers nothing against psionics. Barely any cold/fire defense, and the only resistance it really gives is cold (easy to cap, but a rare source of damage), and a little bit of fire and toxic (from the heal). Chilling Embrace will help you with this with it's -DMG component, but the part that hurts is that the range on chilling embrace is like any other tank aura and has a small radius (10) which won't help against most alpha strikes and ranged attacks. This means when any kind of energy/negative/s/l/toxic/psi attack hits you it's going to hurt a lot. Orange inspirations are your friend for harder content. All of your resistances are going to have to come from your build, basically.

 

The reason I say it has the most holes because aside from the fact that it gives NO help against psionic, most other defense oriented builds do offer some form of small resistance, like True Grit from Shield Defense. SR gives a scaling resist. Heck I think even Ninjitsu offers an all res power. It's not like ice is an unplayable set, but it could really use a rework.

[Hyperstrike]

55 minutes ago, Generator said:

I'm curious, why a Rchg IO in Wet Ice?

Probably a goof on my part.  Was tossing it together quickly while @Work