Erratic1

I think there is a significant difference between the bolded words above and the ones below: Brutes and Scrappers are roughly on par when you consider the 0.7 scalar of Brutes and the base damage of Scrappers starting higher and factoring in crits. (100% base + 95% from Enhancements + 170% from Fury) * 0.7 = 255.5% versus (100% base + 95% from Enhancements) *1.05 = 204.5. Yes, that is lower for the Scrapper, but the Brute enters combat at 0 Fury and until the streak breaker gets involved, randomly good things can happen for the Scrapper ala: The Scrapper ATOs both permanently increase the base chance to 7/8%-9/11% depending on target and give a temporary boost on top of that of 50%. Non-fully leveraged, the temporary boost is, as noted above, a sea change which swamps all other considerations for the AT.

Yeah, it might be as hysterical as the Tanker reaction after this last patch, with people asserting damager reductions in areas which were untouched. On the upside, it probably wouldn't reach the levels of removing Tankers--which if we're removing an AT seems to be an equally valid choice.

The original Black Hole had limited uses, but quite handy with a team accidentally pulling more than they should. The revised version I avoid like pineapples on pizza.

Hurl is for dealing with runners. Do not use Spring Attack, but use Cross Punch as the extra AoE attack for SS.

That is the problem. On a team, when you're waving your hands around trying to hit, someone else will hit and finish your target. That is extremely frustrating. I do the Protean story arc on all my characters. I cannot even begin to imagine soloing Protean with Kinetic Melee because he will Power Siphon you while you are locked in one of KM's inanely long animations.

People who, after years, only have characters in their mid-20s are not operating in a realm where optimization matters much...or balance or other things which tend to be cared about in the big picture. That's fine for them but does not mean others are wrong for finding their enjoyment pushing performance. As for the discussions you have on the forums regarding optimization, the exist because they, unlike "having fun" are deeper mines to plumb. Years ago on Live, I had a Traps/Assault Rifle character with no travel powers because he was meant to be a normal guy using normal tools. He was not optimal at anything and had some serious limitations compared to other characters. And working within those confines as a strictly solo character was fun, as a challenge. But where is the discussion to be had there? What I found fun would have been torture for others and simply uninteresting to yet others.

On a Tanker, I probably would build for Offensive.

Efficient Adaptation should drop the endurance use by a chunk. Not sure if that is their plan, but I built my SS/Brute completely around Efficient. He's fine to leave it, but is built to never run out while in it.

I have to admit I wondered if it would be caught up in being purged.

I am sure it can be nerfed for every other AT, just like what was done with Energy Aura, to make it work on Tankers.

No. If Super Strength goes to Scrappers, then I am going to get my Brute Ninja. All or nothing.

Pretty sure they know and it is meant to be another design hurdle/consideration to keep in mind and met by choice of sets or takinng powers which increase Accuracy/To-Hit.

There are a lot of things players would enjoy but which are not good for the game. The ability to just push a button and insta-defeat any one opponent, on even a one day recharge would is an exmaple. I feel power proliferation has been an overall negative for the melee classes and argued against for years. But at this point there is little left to proliferate--basically just Super Strength. So as I noted above, why not at this point, the damage is done.

Heaven help us if the game goes the Shadowbane route where each class that got nerfed spawned a chorus for the next class to get nerfed, and around and around it went.

I apologize for mischaracterizing your position.

Maybe you should read what you actually wrote, since you are suggesting there is talk which is utterly lacking in evidence. Has anyone actually asked for such?

It was implied about as much as it was implied there would be endless wailing if Tankers had simply had their damage reduced by a single point from old value to oldvalue-1. More notably, I am unaware of anyone speaking on behalf of all Brute players in this thread.

That is a long-winded way of saying, "You're right, Erratic1, I am speculating." And I am sure those pointing at other sources of the nerf have their reasons too. Well, baby steps here (for you), but teams come in many flavors and even with equivalent composition, tactics matter. Regularly there are people complaining (recently In this very forum) about Tankers moving on without the current spawn being fully dealt with. And on a team with more than one Tanker, it's all but guaranteed (nevermind likely optimal). Words that preceded Ether Theory and Lord Kelvin's calculation both that the Earth is 20-400 millions years old and will run out of oxygen inin 3-400 years. Hint: All three conclusions were wrong. There were fact not available to those drawing conclusions. That is what I am pointing out here. Yeah, you could be right, but then so might others supporting different causes or none of you.

Tidge's only concern is keeping Tankers number one by Tidge's standards. Not sure anyone has advocated making Brutes better tanks than Trankers but you can rely on Tidge to object to any and all Brute changes because it might cast the game back into the old days of Tankers being whipped by devils, uphill both ways in the snow. Brutes not strughling as hard to reach still inferior survivability is not going to supplant Tankers.

I did not address this, but should have. You don't know what the balance metric was. You assert the above, some point to Brutes, others to farming. It is the proverbial blind men and the elephant. You build your argument on a foundation of your own choice without any knowledge of the actual underpinning of the decision.

I think on a planet with 8 billion humans there is at least one person who holds to whatever strange idea anyone can come up with. I also think it is not worth entertaining those making mountains out of molehills, proclaiming, "Tankers are utterly unplayable!!! THEYVE BEEN NERFED INTO THE GROUND!!!!!" At the point where the lack of notable impact is meaningless to you, you have gone past academic debate and straight into philosophical--with your philsophy being charitably described as absurd. You dont want to play Tankers any longer? Then don't. But factually Tankers deal more damage than they did Live, their team functionality is unchanged, and it takes a particular herding strategy to experience any significant degradation in performance.

No, it isn't. Solo is not teaming and end game soloing, fun as it may be, is not what drives performance on a team. You, like several others are breathless over nerfs which functionally are not noticeable (except in some edge cases), which is particularly odd because many of you claim not to play in a way which would make the nerf particularly visible. Unless you are herding up and stay at overcap values, there is nothing for you to notice. Yeah, it may take 10% longer to clear a mission. That takes a 3 min mission to 3m 18s. Sorry, but there is more variability in how long it would take to do a mission based on pathing choices and other vagaries. A significant amount of the complaining and bad advice I have seen has come from people who clearly have not even read the patch notes. Someone was insisting last night that Tanker damage was cut by 12% when in fact that was the cut of self-damage buffs--something which will impact Super Strength, Claws, and Shield users moreso than those relying on Build Up, but is nowhere near a damage decrease as is being presented. Personally, I have gotten my new Tanker since the patch, Regen/Fire, to 50, and started my second, EA/Claws. One would think it would be misery unending with the way people are going on but has been anything but that. When I noted I had gotten my first Tanker to 50 since the patch, that does not include also getting a Katana/Psi Brute to 50 and just being a bit short on a new Pyro/Dark Controller from 50 (48 I think). It does not really take me a ton of time to level a character other than dealing with altitis. I do play endgame, just it holds less allure for me due to the, "Must SPEED" attitude which is so pervasive. There are TFs and Trials I have done multiple dozens of times whose stories are utterly opaque to me because when doing them it is being done as quickly as conceivably possible. As for being new, I have played CoH since Beta.

1. I've decided to be kind and not link Sean Connery from Zardoz, but male thigh high boots: 2. Actual shorts for men, not kilts or boxer shorts, or barbarian fur. 3. Short sleeves.

Oh, so your only issue is end game soloing? Fine. The change is to address the other 90-95% of the game.

All of my answers have been honest. Who clears a single spawn of whites in a +0x1 mission faster? The Brute, obviously. Not going to suggest such does not exist, particularly at low levels, but it is usually a bit more varied, particularly as you get out ouf low level missions. The Rikti which greet you when rescuing a Midnighter are likely to be yellow and orange, for example. Now for your honest answer: Who is more likely to have to stop and recover from damage taken after fighting a spawn, particularly those with lieutenants and bosses?