Caulderone

I concur.

I see two sensible, easy(ish), and mutually exclusive changes that I feel would be great either way. 1. MB replaces PB just like on sentinel. 2. Small pulsing absorb in a Reaction Time type toggle. This actually would be very thematic from a deflection/glancing blow type of concept. This could be in place of PB and include the status protection, or it could be in place of Quickness.

All of those require ugly, character breaking things stuck onto my back if my character isn't tech oriented. Same reason I hate the Aid Self power.

That idea is pretty baller.

I feel like Alouu's and Nzer's ideas give us some good places to go that won't invalidate proc builds while bringing them back into an acceptable range. Yes, it is a tricky thing. Once again, that reinforces the idea that we should discuss this now and find an acceptable path to a fix that will work. We aren't currently under any immediate time pressure, so we have our leisure to examine it thoroughly.

He does.

I realized that I forgot to link to the ParagonWiki article on this, meaning I didn't show the proof. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements Details section, #2 The Maximum Bonus Cap

Going to quote myself from another recent welcome back thread: -------------- Welcome home! Here are some useful threads in the Guides forum to help getting started:

That's all the more reason for us to discuss it now and come up with a solid solution before the Devs even get around to it.

I like to think of any Absorb mechanic on SR as a deflection or partial dodge mechanic. A small amount of Absorb, resetting every 3 seconds, would conceptually do that.

I linked the post by CP in the first post. Procs in long recharge powers are viewed by many, CP obviously included, as being too good. I wanted us to discuss options, knowing that from CPs post things likely will be changed at some point, to see if we could come up with a good change.

A detailed analysis of mob damage resistance has been done. I'll link it below. From an average resist standpoint, Fire is 2nd only to Negative Energy. Fire still doesn't bring any mitigation to the table, but from a "doing damage" point of view, its problems aren't caused by mobs resisting the damage type.

Recharge cap is +400%, so base recharge/5. 1000/5 = 200 So, you can't every actually perma it, but the phase shift thing I can see. Given how easy it is to get any version of SR into the 50s in defense, I don't see wanting to ever have to stop every little bit. But, that does give an option I hadn't looked at. So, I say: Fine, leave Elude alone. There's plenty of other tweaks suggested that would work fine while leaving Elude alone.

That is a very rare route to take. Elude cannot be perma, or even remotely close. Most folks aren't willing to stand around that long between spawns.

Making it something akin to Unleash Potential or Rune of Protection would be nice. edit to add general comment: The tanker and brute versions of SR are fine in order of powers. The scrapper and stalker versions need the AoE toggle earlier. I really like the sentinel versions Master Brawler, and wouldn't mind it replacing PB across the board. I like to think of the Absorb as representing you deflecting/parrying attacks with your reflexes. It just works for me conceptually. I also wouldn't mind a tweaked version of Reaction Time (lose the recovery) replacing Quickness (replace the recovery from RT with the slow protection from Q). This would be a good place for the absorb, so shouldn't be combined with getting MB. This would give a real "bullet time" feel. The taunt currently in Evasion could also possibly be moved here and would make a lot of sense.

I haven't seen a build guide specifically for that combination. But, Redlynne's v2.0 No Get Hitsu guide could easily be adapted to DB instead of MA. That is probably your best starting point for SR/ at the least. I think the most popular DB attack chain to build for is: Blinding Feint - Attack Vitals Combo (Ablating - Vengeful - Sweeping) Here's my build from the end of that thread adapted to DB using that attack chain as an example:

At this point, it looks to me that your proposal and Nzer's are the best of the bunch. Focusing on those two and coming up with the best overall proposal also would limit the necessity of absolutely requiring respecs MunkiLord is worried about. I look forward to your comparison of Nzer's with yours. I think both look workable and tweakable if further modifications needed to happen down the line. I also agree with a comment above by Parabola that several of the non-damage procs likely need some love, but that probably is a low priority target.

The only addendum I would add to Bopper's correct analysis is that you shouldn't +5 the pure Damage IO in the purple sets. At 53%, it is already over the 41.5% cap on enhancement value when exemplared.

Well, it is more like expecting instead of asking for. Ever since Bopper put out his guide and Proc-mania began, I've been expecting a nerf (and I pretty much agree it is needed, too).

Maybe some things should be PPM and some things should use the old system?

I disagree. If the continued imbalance this has created keeps going on, it is only going to get harder and harder to address without everyone going ballistic. Better to get it over with sooner rather than later, in my opinion.

Well, the in game info still lists the power as 8. The inherent buffs it to 12 (+50%), but this isn't shown anywhere in the visible stats. But, the effect of being 12 is obvious in use. The planner hasn't been updated since the Tanker buff patch went in. It will only show the 8. Once it is updated, if it ever is, I don't know if it will show the base 8 or the modified 12. That is up to whoever updates the planner.

The radius is 8, but it now gets a +50% increase from the Tanker inherent. So, it is still listed as 8, but it is actually working at 12. edit: Mids hasn't been updated for the tanker changes at all. The damage scalar is therefore way off.

Accuracy of 1.0 nets you the following to hit values vs mobs of that level: +0 = 75% +1 = 65% +2 = 56% +3 = 48% +4 = 39% https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics The Info tab's accuracy rating is best thought of as "final chance to hit after all modifiers" for the level you have set in the settings. Options->Configuration->Exemp and Base Values tab has the setting for changing the value to one of the ones I listed above. example: If you want 95% chance to hit +4 mobs, set the Base To Hit to 39% and then build until you show 95% in the Info tab for each attack.

So, basically, I just shifted the goalposts, but it did alleviate the long recharge powers = nukes. Yeah, using total recharge does seem to look better here. Although, then I would want serious consideration to go to raising the minimum chance. Otherwise, the fast recharging powers are basically going to be locked at minimum proc chance permanently. Tying the proc chance to having other IOs from a set slotted is interesting. Sounds difficult to enact, though.