Haijinx

Well you are only sort of punished. Since you still get the benefits of double stacked rage after all. The problem is a lot of players love double stacked rage also .. and they will resist getting rid of it. Me personally id buff jab and punch and make rage single stack only ... But this idea posted for consideration on test seems like a decent compromise to me

Although i mentioned the teaming thing earlier, i wonder how much of an issue that really is. Since a kin adds a lot of damage to the whole team they aren't going to notice your 10 sec of no damage.

Well for sure these changes will make tankers a lot more popular.

It also did the end crash on live. Making my WP/SS a lot easier to manage than my SS/Fire.

Yeah, i definitely remember the minus damage on live! Because I'd always mentally kick myself when i footstomped and a bunch of orange 1s and 2s floated above the bad guy's heads.

Could still generally plan around that. Use lower level IOs for the ones with a recharge component. Not sure which set you'd put in rage though. Guassian's works much better in tactics.

Should be fairly easy to reduce the amount of slotted recharge in rage so you don't stack self buffed though. Unless you have so much recharge you double stack with unslotted rage? Lol Its the teaming which would be tricky.

You don't need any kind of IO build to perma rage, just 3 recharge SOs so I am confused how this becomes a have vs have not thing? The -res makes sense because it was hurting defense sets much harder than resist sets. Not sure what elusivity is. Im guessing a defense debuff?

Wow. These changes are huge. Seems like a lot to add in all at once.

I am curious about ideas behind slotting of the scrapper ato procs.

Galaxy Brain, You haven't demonstrated the set needs nerfed though. Haven't demonstrated other sets need buffed either. There is no data outside of pylon times for max IO incarnate builds. Pylon times that even some of the old time pylon gurus suggest start to break down as a metric once times get below 2 minutes. Which a lot of combos are doing not just TW. Well that and data for what sets people play.. which is a pointless subjective mess. So you'd need more data, and more metrics. ________ Also, if you were to nerf it, you'd have to do it in such a way you could still play the set on SOs and below level 50. None of these suggestions seem to address that.

Sorry lol, for some reason your suggestion reminded me of that. A gas or grenades, etc based sets sounds good to me

My vote would be, give us the option to make it invisible .. even just client side .. sooner. Then worry about cooler solutions later

I assume you mean the EM nerf? Maybe i got the timing wrong? I was pretty sure ET animation time happened before IOs but I could be wrong. Besides the point on this thread though. Seems like you and I agree on TWs

So far the only evidence of this gap is pylon times for IOd to the gills builds. That is why i changed my mind, no one has demonstrated this gap in other instances. TW has three issues that I see as a set. First it burns tons of Endurance. More than other end hog sets. Second, it needs a lot of recharge. You spend a lot of time waiting for attacks. And even so it still feels like you don't have enough end. Third, it doesn't have any quick fast attack outside momentum. So those enemies with just a sliver of health become annoying. Feels clunky to que up one of TWs ST attacks out of momentum to finish them off. The first two seem like where the "TW isn't good till IOs" come in. With enough recovery, end red, and recharge performance must go up a lot. Seems reasonable, since the tradeoff for its drawbacks is big orange numbers and a bursty DPA increase. So it really does seem that you are asking to balance a set around IO level performance. Which they don't do anywhere else. Even the classic EM nerf was before IOs.

Yeah opening with the assassin attack is slow and boring. Open with thunderstrike maybe.

Em is broken, Ele is okay As shred monkey describes the assassin's powers are situational.

Pace yourself and run with large teams till you get to 20. Maybe a few DFBs After that as mentioned, force of thunder will fix your end issues.

The Spleen lives!

I was of the opinion TW probably needed toned down. But now I am not so sure. Even for Pylon times I have questions, for example seems a lot of ILL controllers do just as well on the Pylon as TW. And I have seen no comparisons of SO performance at all. Would take a lot of convincing.

Ill also note EM was around for a lot longer than TW has been ..

I think we have to be really careful to use things like Pylon times or popular opinions to determine outliers. More research is probably needed to determine how "overperforming" it is. And of course there is the classic IO/SO problem. It doesn't seem to be nearly that great on SOs, the recharge times are pretty long. If you are going to nerf a set, you need to be careful. Don't do another Energy Melee.

A sent is definitely more tough than the toughest blasters before figuring in mitigating factors .. like CC .. lower engagement times from damage, etc. A tough blaster is maybe capped to S/L/E and ranged with 30 S/L resist and sort of status protect. That would make a poor sent secondary.

Think you need to be careful using pylon times as absolute indicators of an ATs relative ST damage. Especially if you include profs with heavy debuffs. Unless you are hunting pylons i guess.

Agree. Abandoned my Beam/devices for the same reason. The spinning targeting drone would make me slightly dizzy.