Rudra

You're right. I missed that. Apologies. They give up the Innocuous Strikes cone for the Assassin's Staff attack.

Very good point about the Build Up. Just checked to verify, and there are exactly two differences between Stalker Staff Fighting and Scrapper/Tanker/Brute Staff Fighting. Stalkers give up the taunt for Placate, and more importantly, they give up Staff Mastery for Build Up. That's it. The powers available are the exact same otherwise. (Edit: It's also telling that the author says Scrapper Staff Fighting is the worst of them all while Stalker is the best of them all, when Scrapper Staff Fighting does more damage by itself than Stalker Staff Fighting. For instance, Sky Splitter has a base starting damage before adding in the attack's later damage or the chance to inflict damage of 76.7421 damage on a Stalker, but 86.3349 damage on a Scrapper. And the Scrapper's add on damage, both guaranteed and chance for, are higher than the Stalker's.)

Actually, I'm not. I'm being snide. Almost every level 50 character I have or have made back on Live had a gapless attack rotation. And those rotations were dependent on my having a good enough recharge. So for my EM/WP Brute for instance. My attack chain is T1, T5, T2, T9, T1, T7, T5, T2, T9, T1, T7 ad infinitum. So the recharge of those powers is most definitely affecting their DPS.

Then I guess everyone can stop slotting recharge and screaming they need Hasten in their builds.

I'll let @Ston handle figuring out attack chain DPS. I'm not inclined to tackle something that complex. However, this still discounts what other things those powers do. Without any of the form stances factored in, which is an additional complication I am disinclined to factor in, just the basic abilities of each of Staff Fighting's attacks, you have a constant stream of knockups, knockdowns, stuns, defense reductions, personal defense buff, movement buff for all movement types, chance for bonus damage to pets, minions, swarms, and small mobs; a ranged attack, and immobilize; while still maintaining comparable DPS per power to War Mace. (Better even on 4 powers. 5 if you factor that Serpent's Reach is a ranged attack being compared to a melee attack, and still does nearly the same DPS.) I don't look at pylon times. I don't look at Trapdoor times. I'm not sure about the Trapdoor test, but pylons only look at the character's ability to inflict massive amounts of damage in as little time as possible. It does not look at anything else the character can do. Get yourself a pocket Empath to hang nearby and keep you alive while you wail on the pylon. (Or make a Tanker and just tank it while you wail on it.) That is just straight damage. Staff Fighting is a solid set. It may not be the highest damage set, but they can't all be the highest damage set. It may even be the lowest damage set, I don't know. I am not inclined to go through all the power sets across Tankers, Brutes, and Scrappers to see if it is. That doesn't make it a bad set. That doesn't even make it a weak set. The more any given power does, the less damage it will do. That is by design. And Staff Fighting does a lot. The only reason I don't much play Staff Fighting characters? Is because I tend to get bored playing my staff characters. If Staff Fighting is under-powered, not looking at just DPS here, looking at set performance overall, then the devs will address it. However, I don't see anything wrong with Staff Fighting's DPS. (Edit: There is also the consideration, at least in my book, that players are using Form of the Mind and the proposal would take that away to replace it with a different power. Especially since Perfection of the Mind already grants +51.8009 psi damage to Sky Splitter and Guarded Spin isn't a finisher, but is a charge builder.)

I have no comment on Kheldians since they are already a massive pile of powers beyond any other AT's power sets, but as far as the Master Brawler/Practiced Brawler bit? The devs have already said that given how much of a headache coding that was, they will not be doing that again. (Edit: Though me being me, I feel the need to point out that throwing a Peacebringer together in Mids to check power availability, I filled every available power slot without ever once touching any pool powers and still skipping the shapeshifting powers. And I still had 1 non-shapeshifting power left from the Peacebringer tree to replace any of the others I grabbed. So you can definitely make a human form only Kheldian.)

Fine. So let's apply some recharge reduction enhancements to these. They have had their recharge reduced to half. (Obviously, the cast times are not affected.) We get the following results: Mercurial Blow: 21.02068 dps Bash: 18.78724 dps Winner: Staff Fighting Precise Strike: 20.706799 dps Pulverize: 18.65471 dps Winner: Staff Fighting Guarded Spin: 12.43182 dps Jawbreaker: 17.56741 dps Winner: War Mace Eye of the Storm: 8.35934 dps Whirling Mace: 7.246 dps Winner: Staff Fighting Serpent's Reach: 17.96024 dps Clobber: 19.79194 dps Winner: War Mace Innocuous Strikes: 12.3116 dps Shatter: 17.12367 dps Winner: War Mace Sky Splitter: 15.8796 dps Crowd Control: 12.5905 dps Winner: Staff Fighting. Totals: 4 powers with higher DPS in Staff Fighting and 3 powers with higher DPS in War Mace. Just as before. Same powers even. And that is still completely ignoring absolutely anything else any of these powers do. (Edit: Like the fact Serpent's Reach is a 40 feet range attack, and Clobber is not because War Mace has no range attacks on a Scrapper other than Confront.)

You mean Athletic Run? Edit: Nevermind, I get what you are saying. I don't think players will use it if the cartwheels are triggered randomly while moving, but a Cartwheel Run power where you cartwheel all over the place may be doable.

The ability to animate in a single player game is much simpler to do than a MMO. (Edit: At least from my understanding of gaming animations.) And there is still the problem of conflicting animations. Say the devs create a means of tethering your character to a target, like the Follow command. So now we have a Follow that works for us on our enemies. Most likely doable. However, depending on what animation is occurring and what the orientation is of the character to the target for the dodging animation, there is still the problem of needing to disrupt that animation to place the character into the default position/stance to start the attack animation. Jumping around the target using our movement inputs works because the game can quickly and easily disrupt the animation while maintaining our jump as it starts the attack animation. If you watch what happens when you jump towards or away from an enemy and trigger an attack in mid-air, your character takes the time to shift into a standing stance as if on the ground, and then launch into their attack. That is also why if you attempt to jump and attack at the same time or nearly the same time, your character is grounded and immobile, no jumping occurs, as the attack animation starts. (Edit: There is also the problem that the character can be moved outside the assigned tether by player input, which would then either break the tether or force the game to seize control of the character to get back in range.)

Correct. I am taking the attack's damage and dividing it by the cast time + the recharge time. Because the damage may be applied during or at the end of the cast time, but the recharge time determines when you can use that attack again. Which affects your DPS. Edit: Let's put it this way. The time it takes to cast/animate the attack and the time it takes the attack to recharge is effectively the actual time period over which the attack's damage is applied. Because you cannot use the attack before it is available to use. So the damage is effectively spread out over the combined time. Edit again: For example, you have two attacks. One does 1,000,000 damage, but you can't use it except for once per month. The other attack does 100 damage, but you can use it once every 10 seconds. There is 0 cast time for this comparison. That 1,000,000 damage attack is doing 0.3858 damage per second, but that 100 damage attack is doing 10 damage per second. Another way to look at it? That 1,000,000 damage attack did 1,000,000 damage that month using it as fast as you could, while the 100 damage attack did 25,920,000 damage over the same amount of time. So cast time plus recharge is your actual DPS. (Edit yet again: Yes, you will be using other attacks as part of your attack chain, so your overall DPS will increase from the cumulative attacks. However, that does not change that how fast a power recharges has a major impact on how much overall damage it does in combat. Because you still cannot use any attack until it has recharged.)

The problem with doing that is sustained animations would need to be added to Super Reflexes, and that causes problems with the animations for the attacks. Since the SR animation would need to be disrupted, the character set to basic/standard stance, and then the attack animation can start. The game would also need to check for in combat as opposed to out of combat to see if the added animations should even activate, which the game can do already, or SR characters would always be dodging even when sitting still talking to someone. Edit: There is also the option I've seen several of my friends employ for their SR characters. And just keep moving around the target(s) as they fight. (One even managed to land on a mob and claw it to death. Was amazing to watch.) Edit again: So given how game animations work as compared to comic drawings or TV/movie fight choreography, as long as the player was hitting attacks, the new dodge animations wouldn't be able to trigger, returning everyone to square one, except for all the work put into the animations no one sees in combat anyway.

The damage doesn't look bad to me. Comparing to War Mace you get the following: Tier 1: Mercurial Blow: 52.5517 damage, -7.5% DEF (100% chance), 1 second cast, 3 second recharge. (13.138 dps) Bash: 62.5615 damage, Mag 2 Stun (10% chance), 1.33 second cast, 4 second recharge. (11.738 dps) Tier 2: Precise Strike: 85.5812 damage, Mag 2 Stun (20% chance), 1.133 second cast, 6 second recharge. (11.998 dps) Pulverize: 102.6009 damage, Mag 2 Stun (20% chance), 1.5 second cast, 8 second recharge. (10.8 dps) Tier 3: Guarded Spin: 72.4775 damage, +11.25% DEF (Melee/Lethal), 1.83 second cast, 8 second recharge. (7.373 dps) Jawbreaker: 122.6205 damage, Mag 4.154 Knockup (75% chance), 1.98 second cast, 10 second recharge. (10.235 dps) Tier 4/5: Eye of the Storm: 92.5379 damage, -7.5% DEF (100% chance), Mag .67 KU (40% chance), +76.9506 damage (minions, pets, swarms, and small. 10% chance), 2.57 cast, 17 second recharge. (4.73 dps/8.66 dps [10% chance]) Clobber: 182.6796 damage, Mag 3 Stun, 1.23 second cast, 16 second recharge. (10.6 dps) Tier 7: Serpent's Reach: 112.6107 damage, +112.6107 damage (minions, pets, swarms, and small. 10% chance), Mag .67 KB (80% chance), 1.77 cast, 9 second recharge. (10.52 dps/20.92 dps [10% chance]) Whirling Mace: 70.0689 damage, Mag 2 Stun (30% chance), +70.0689 damage (minions, pets, swarms, and small. 5% chance), 2.67 cast, 14 second recharge. (4.20 dps/8.41 dps [5% chance]) Tier 8: Innocuous Strikes: 88.2742 damage, +103.8521 damage (minions, pets, swarms, and small. 5% chance), Mag 3 immobilize (60% chance), +movement (Self: All), 2.17 second cast, 10 second recharge. (7.25 dps/15.79 dps [5% chance]) Shatter: 142.6402 damage, Mag .67 KB, +142.6402 damage (minions, pets, swarms, and small. 5% chance, 2.33 second cast, 12 second recharge. (9.95 dps/19.9 dps [5% chance]) Tier 9: Sky Splitter: 164.03631 damage, Mag 5,96 Stun, Mag .67 KU, 2.83 second cast, 15 second recharge. (9.2 dps) Crowd Control: 100.724 damage, Mag .67 KB, +100.724 damage (minions, pets, swarms, and small. 5% chance), 2 second cast, 12 second recharge. (7.19 dps/14.39 dps [5% chance]) If you shift Whirling Mace and Eye of the Storm to match each other and Serpent's Reach to Clobber (edit: since Whirling Mace and Eye of the Storm are the PBAoEs), you get the following for DPS: Staff: War Mace: 13.138 11.738 11.998 10.8 7.373 10.235 4.73 4.2 10.52 10.6 7.25 9.95 9.2 7.19 It out damages War Mace on 4 attacks and is out damaged by War Mace on 3 attacks. That is not a weak set. Edit: Also, please note that no forms were used for those calculations. That is just the basic forms of Staff Fighting's attacks, so no bonuses added.

Which begs the question I was avoiding in my response. Is the lockout coded to the sets, to the powers, or to the animations? (My money is on the sets.) And even ignoring that, you choose your weapon models after you choose your power sets. So now you have to either be able to disable the model with their corresponding animations to prevent two-handed use if the player chose shield, which requires a whole new level of coding complexity, or require the chosen model + animation choice to disable the shield power set if chosen and force the player to a previous point in character creation to choose a suitable power set that can make use of that. As opposed to going Titan Weapon or Katana after requesting the desired weapon models be added to them.

Not really - it'd just be excluded from being taken along with shield, like other powersets already are... Except the proposal isn't a new power set that could be coded to preclude shields. It is a request for alternate weapon models and their animations to be added to an existing power set that does not preclude shields. So that poses a problem. Say you make a Broadsword/Shield character. Then you go into the character creator and change your one-handed weapon to one of the two-handed options the OP makes possible. What happens to the /Shield secondary? Game says you can't do that, I believe primarily because of the animation problem, but now you have a means to work around it. Does your secondary get disabled? You can't change it. Does the game get new code disabling the shield models and animations with the shield set? If the latter, then why even bother having the shield lockout? Just disable the lockout and remove the shield models and animations then. Or go to clipping hell and live with it.

Except, as I've stated on this thread multiple times and the devs (back on Live) stated when they explained the power and power set, it is not meant as an actual attack. It just happens to also do damage.

Your character is already struggling to throw off dizziness. The better their resists, the better they are at throwing off dizziness, sleep, et al. And with protection, they are so good at throwing off such effects, that it takes a really powerful force to affect them with it. (Edit: Also, it's only Wednesday here. So either your Saturday suggestion is way late or way early. 😛)

Again, you fixate on being surrounded by large numbers of mobs and completely discount the players that don't play at higher difficulties with the large numbers of mobs and still rely on Consume and/or Dark Consumption to recover their END bars. Nerfing a soloist's ability to use a power at lower spawn sizes for the sake of being able to reap benefits from more targets at higher spawn sizes is not acceptable to me. So what if Dark Consumption fully maxes out your END bar if it successfully hit 4 mobs while you were surrounded by millions of enemies. Why should it be penalized for the sake of being able to get a benefit when there are more targets in the AoE? That's like saying Dark Regeneration should be more front loaded, so that you heal 300 points of damage for the 1st target only and then another 10 per target past that. (And yes, I reduced the damage healed because your front loaded Dark Consumption reduces what it recovers even for the first target.) That is a definite nerf. If the devs decide to reduce the recharge to 150 seconds? Sure, I would be fine with that. Reducing the recharge to 40 seconds? Or even 60 seconds? Makes those powers way too available. Now they may as well be part of my active attack chain. I shall never go hungry ag... I mean... want for END again! Consume and Dark Consumption are not meant to be active parts of an attack chain. They are supplemental abilities meant to give characters just enough of an edge to keep them going. And especially in the case of Consume with its 2 minute character buffs, reducing the recharge is very much not necessary. As has already been stated, it can already easily be made perma for its buffs. If its recharge is brought down? Then its buff durations need to be cut as well.

Funny thing. The same people keep asking to make the game even easier than it is. It's almost like only some people come to the forums and post. Like the comments on both sides of any debate on the forums are not representative of the community writ large that plays the game. (And yet, comments that only those that disagree with any given suggestion to make the game easier or to buff powers that don't really need it or to replace powers players are using and enjoying are the minority voices keep getting made despite the fact we are all a recurring minority voice here on the forums.) (Edit: So the whole "I speak for the player base, everyone wants <insert change>" is nonsense. You may be speaking for the people you interact with, but none of us speak for the community. Because none of us has interactions with everyone. So none of us know what everyone wants. Each of us represents a specific group of players, with obviously contrary desires.)

The author doesn't want Dark Consumption fixed. The author wants Dark Consumption changed into an actual attack that fits into his/her/their attack chain because it is in the Dark Melee set rather than the Dark Armor set. The author's presentation for why Consume "needs" to be changed is very different compared to the author's presentation for why Dark Consumption "needs" to be changed. Even the proposed recharge times for the two powers in the OP are different, with Consume being presented as 'should be 60 seconds' compared to Dark Consumption's 'should be 40 seconds'. And if they were both at 60 second recharge, let alone 60 second and 40 second recharge, there would be absolutely no problem with being able to spam the two continuously with just a few SOs. Which is not the design intent for those two damage capable utility powers. Without even any global recharge buffs, a Dark Melee/Fiery Aura character would be able to almost back-to-back keep triggering those powers and never be at risk of no END just with SO slotting, even with a Sapper present. Which takes away the threat of Sappers and other END reduction mobs. And that is even without any balance considerations for Dark Consumption being changed into an attack primary purpose power which it is not at current time.

We can disagree on anything, however, you do not get to say who should or should not be posting on the forums. Just because you think something needs to be changed does not mean it does. While I wouldn't mind the recharge coming down a bit, Dark Melee was the very first power set I used on my very first character when the game was first launched. I've used on several characters. I get the recharge down to 98.52 seconds and it is just barely fast enough that I can spam it to both do damage and keep my END topped off through constant battling. And that is with a measly +35% haste boost from just set bonuses. I do have a better idea. You leave the END gain alone. Not everyone plays at max difficulty. Not everyone even cares to try. And nerfing the END gain to 20 for the first target and then 2 per target after is not something I find to be helpful in the slightest. Some players play at base difficulty. They only have 3-4 mobs around them depending on faction. And Dark Consumption can miss. I've been surrounded by 8 mobs and only drained 2 because of RNG and the 95% chance to hit cap. Bad luck happens. And when a Dark Melee needs that END back to keep toggles up and attacks going, being reduced to recovering 22 END as opposed to 50 END means I'm not going to last to the next power activation. (And I build my characters for END sustainment. Which reduces my dependence on things like Dark Consumption.) Great! So what were they thinking? I'd like to know what their plan was. Because I personally do not like yours. If you change Dark Consumption into an actual attack? The first thing to go will be that 0.52 END cost. Dedicated attacks have higher END costs. And if the damage is doubled with the recharge reduced, making the power into an actual attack instead of the utility power it is right now? Then its focus moves away from the END drain/restoration function it currently has. Meaning the END drain will come down. And that is after considering you are already talking about gimping the END drain because you seem to think the power should need a map's worth of mobs around you to recover your END bar. Like I said, I would not be adverse to the recharge coming down. However, I am most definitely opposed to your restructuring of END gain. Front-loading the END gain to a single target with negligible END drain for anything beyond the first target absolutely will handicap my DM characters. (Edit: And again, the primary purpose of Dark Consumption is not an attack despite being in the Dark Melee set. It is to keep Dark Melee able to function in light of its heavy END draw.) (Edit again: As was stated back on Live, the reason why Dark Consumption is in Dark Melee and not Dark Armor is so that players would not be restricted to pairing Dark Melee with Dark Armor. That came from the devs. [At the time.])

Dark Consumption's primary purpose isn't attack despite being in the attack power set. It is built like Consume. It's the "Holy crap! I'm out of END! Gimme!" power that keeps Dark Melee fighting. (Edit: Dark Consumption being in the primary set rather than the secondary means that Dark Melee can be paired with any secondary despite its heavy END draw, rather than limiting players to Fiery Aura for Consume or similar secondaries.) If you turn it into an attack, doubling its damage and reducing its recharge, then its END cost is going to go up from the 0.52 END cost it currently is and its END drain is going to come down. And while I can't speak for other players, that would definitely handicap my DM characters. And if you have the END drain changed to 20 for the first target and another 2 END for each target beyond that, then players are going to need to be surrounded by large numbers of mobs to make it able to keep them fighting, which will penalize players that aren't willing or prepared to face such numbers solo.

You mean, give players a reason to go after the Seed? Usually, trying to find a team to go after the Seed of Hamidon is harder than trying to find volunteers to feed themselves to lions. Only rarely do I ever see a Seed team form, and it is always badgers going for the badges. (Which is what I try to find a team for, so no complaints about that part.)

Now, do it in Haiku. Eight and one you see I'm the terror of the sea Your ports will feed me How's that? (I really, really suck at haiku....)

A portal to the instance where he is like someone said earlier in the thread would work better. That way those that want to fight him aren't locked out for not being on the team, while AFK'ers would be.

Oh my god please this A reason to explore an old zone? Sounds good to me.