Rudra

The point was that if a power is being taken and used by players, then you cannot simply ignore them for the sake of implementing change. And what is "people are already negatively impacted by the status quo, regardless of what the status quo is. There are things that are possible and impossible under the current state of affairs." even supposed to mean in this conversation? Because the status quo is viewed negatively by some it should be changed without regard for those who view it positively, thereby simply changing who is negatively impacted? THAT is your reasoning?! Seriously?! Sure. It doesn't affect anyone's current build. Except for those using Confront already and with no desire to suddenly find themselves there with the enemies. Of course, we can just get taunt from the power pool. Which is fine. Except your "doesn't affect anybody's current build" ignores the builds that already incorporate it and then would need to be re-planned and respeced to recover their already available functionality. Pulling from pool sets to get what I want is fine with me. That does not mean I am fine with you or the OP requiring me to do so so you can change how the game works to suit your preferences. Let's assume for the moment it is not worthless. The idea then is to make it into something worthless for those already using it. Do you have any arguments that are not so fallible or at least so inclined to ignore the fact it is currently being used by players even if you consider it an outdated holdover? Which by the way is your opinion and not a given. Edit: Just for clarification? I would not actually be adversely affected by the change as swapping Confront for Provoke is simple for my characters. The only problem is Provoke has less range, less than half the duration, no draw target to you ability, can miss, and more than three times the recharge. In exchange for a radius effect. So not really a fair trade, thank you. You and the OP are still mandating anyone other than yourselves be required to pick and choose a pool set they already have incorporated into their builds to be removed to maintain functionality. And that functionality isn't even maintained with the proposed replacement. Your hypocrisy is difficult to answer.

Yeah... I'm only changing it to boomerang for the mechanic. I don't honestly care what thrown weapon uses the mechanic. I can throw a blunted shuriken. It can be video game magic and chains from foe to foe. Don't care. Was just giving a logical example. Edit: I can also just head canon it to boomerang if need be. Again, just want the mechanic used.

Okay, let's try a different approach, @battlewraith. I don't take or use aim. I have been told on occasion by other players it is a less than useful power and they would rather it was replaced by Build Up or another power. Are you okay with Aim being replaced? We have Tactics in the Leadership pool we can take. I don't take the T9 power for most armors. I have also been told in the occasional chat that the T9s are useless. Would you be okay with replacing those? I have been told while playing my MM that the T1 pets are useless and all MMs should take a more useful power in their place. Are you okay with replacing the T1 pets of MMs? Pick any power common to an AT. Now ask if you are okay with replacing it. If your answer to any of those is "No", then why are you so cavalier about replacing Confront? It does not matter how many or few players take and use a power. Players are taking and using those powers. And this thread is asking to force those players to have to re-build their characters, maybe even completely re-plan their characters if they already have 4 pool sets on those characters, and you are fine with it because it does not negatively impact you. As opposed to having players take the available powers to do what they want as is already incorporated into the game. (Before anyone goes to crucify me for those examples, while the chats did happen, I am not saying to replace any of them. Sorry if that is the impression I am giving.)

Silly thought: Replace the shuriken with boomerangs and then change the cone attack to a chain attack. 😄

You mean like the Combat Teleport power that is a power pool that can be taken with 0 prior power picks from the pool that the OP does not want to take and just wants to fold into Confront? I'm not opposed to a new power pool that has a different mechanic for closing. If that is what you want, build up the pool as a suggestion. That is entirely workable and would likely garner a great deal of support. Edit: Or since it would still likely use the teleport mechanic, ask for alternate animations for Combat Teleport. Edit again: Or a new power that for 2 seconds suppresses travel suppression and auto Fs to selected target, but cannot be used without a selected hostile target and only charges, dashes, flies, whatevers to the selected target.

Any gap closer as requested in the OP is a teleport. So you are asking to have a teleport built into melee ATs so they don't have to take teleport since teleport does not work for their concept. Whether Savage Leap, Spring Attack, Lightning Rod, or Shield Charge, they are all teleports. All of them. So again, you are asking for a teleport because teleport is not thematically correct for the character to have. Which makes no sense. As for using Combat Teleport? However you choose to define how the character gets there is up to you. Combat Teleport can be defined as the character running so fast the enemy doesn't seem them approach until the attack. (Edit: As already incorporated into Speed of Sound with Jaunt.) It can be defined as moving into another dimension to close with the enemies and then returning to the game dimension to attack. It can be defined as a near-instantaneous jump. It can be defined however you want. Mechanically? All your gap closers are teleports. Even the ones already in the melee power sets. So your argument makes no sense. Edit again: And if you don't want the gap closer to be a teleport? Then you're looking at Sprint, Beast Run, Ninja Run, Athletics, Super Speed, or Super Jump. Which all already exist and are available. 4 of those without needing to take them as power choices. Edit's edit: And Fly, and Speed of Sounds mentioned earlier but not here, and Mystic Flight. Sorry, I forgot to include those. Just not Walk as that would take a while.

Can you expand on this? Explain what you are thinking? Like a list of powers and a brief description of some sort?

Let's see... game is created with options for play set up in configuration A. Players play the game using configuration A. Another player comes along and says he wants it run in configuration B instead which would completely invalidate playing according to configuration A. And the players playing the game in the existing configuration are the ones imposing their play style on the individual that wants to throw that play style out the window? ... You have some seriously questionable logic. If something is set up one way and people use it that way, that is not the players imposing their play style on another. That is players playing the game as it works. Now asking for that t be changed because someone does not want to use the already available resources to accomplish his goal? That *is* an imposition of personal play style on others.

So your explanation for why this should be done is because since not every melee character can or should teleport, every melee AT should teleport? Let me try this a different way and see if it makes more sense to me.... Not every melee character will use teleport. Check. Makes sense. So they should all have teleport automatically baked into their power set. What? That is like saying not everyone will use a car so they should be able to use a car instead. It does not help people who use Confront for its created purpose. While players like @Greycat and I may be minority players that actually use confront, changing it to a teleport to target would actually hurt us because we could no longer use it to draw targets out of a crowded area or force gates to send their spawns to the group or draw mobs off friends before the friends are defeated. And decisions about character powers is integral to all characters. That is why we have ATs. That is why those ATs have different power sets within them. That is why there are power pools, ancillary power pools, and patron power pools. And yet we only have 24 power slots for our characters split between all that. With caps on how many different pools we can take. So we as players have to choose what powers and how they are slotted based on what we think is either more appropriate for the character or more effective. This thread is based on getting around that limitation. Edit: What it basically boils down to is you and the author want the utility of a power pool without having to give up your min/max power pool selections. Since you can't fit 5 power pools into a character, not counting ancillary power pools and patron power pools which are treated differently, you want the utility of teleport baked into the preferred ATs for it so you can keep the same 4 power pools with the same pool power choices. And like with the request for Hasten to be made into an inherent power like the Fitness pool before it, the answer is "No".

Right. The teleport pool has 2 means of closing the gap. Combat Teleport that takes you to a target enemy and Fold Space that brings every enemy within 100 feet to your character. So there are two options in the pool to do what the author wants. Then add in Teleport Other to grab single enemies instead or bring friends to you or Teleport which is annoying to use but is definitely a viable travel power, and the teleport pool is brimming with options. I would not call that pool useless to any degree. Thanks for bringing that up, @arcane.

Answer #1: Answer #2: Bold added to highlight the argument you say the author is not making but has already made. Edit: Also, please note that the author also admits that the means to do what he wants already exists in the first highlight..

So... OP asks for something that already exists in the game and you want me to explain why something that already exists in the game would hurt the game? Because since it already exists in the game, it obviously won't hurt it. It just has to be used by the author. The fact he does not want to do so is not justification for a change. I don't understand your question or rationale. Because the author does not want to use the resources already available to him because he finds it inconvenient justifies forcing a change on others, requiring them to change the way they play so he can do what he wants, and thereby inconveniencing the other players so he need not be inconvenienced into taking a power that already exists and does exactly what he wants? How does that make any sense? I don't know what else can be said. This has already been said repeatedly. What the author wants is already available. Combat Teleport is already there. For his requested purpose. He just needs to use it. What is your point?

Combat Teleport in the teleport pool has a .67 s cast time as opposed to 1.67 s for either Confront or AS, is available at level 4 as opposed to level 12 for Confront or level 6 for AS, requires no previous power picks from the pool to get, and is available to everyone in the game. What the author is asking for already exists. Further, the author has already admitted his reason for this thread is so he can keep his preferred 4 power pools and still have this power. So yes, actually, this is rather controversial as he is asking for the ability to do everything he wants without any cost to him and would force other players to have to change the way they play so he can be accommodated.

Was about to ask what that is from. Then it finally hit me in the face with a spiked gauntlet: that's one of the alchemists from Full Metal Alchemist. 😄

I have a problem with this statement. The game makes bullets and swords both lethal damage, so that part I get. Thinking on how armor works though... let's use kevlar as an example. Kevlar stops bullets of up to a certain caliber. (Not going to get into the specifics of how kevlar works since it does not actually stop harm, just penetration.) A knife however, will cut right through it. (Newer kevlars are supposed to be at least less susceptible to this, but we'll stick with original production kevlar for this example.) The reason the kevlar works against the bullet and not the knife is because the kevlar tries to spread and diffuse the energy. The blunt bullet has its energy spread. The sharp knife separates the kevlar, cutting through it. (Edit again: The pointy arrow punches through kevlar without a care.) That is not positional damage. Now, in CoX, that could only be simulated with positional. (Edit again cont.: Except for the bullet/arrow concundrum.) I have no argument there. My main argument is that kevlar is the only armor I know of that functions like that. So like @Zepp said, the positional resist does not work on a thematic level except in that one specific example. And more modern kevlars are (at least supposed to be) much less susceptible to this. Metal armors? It was not being shot that defeated them. It was the energy being focused into a significantly smaller point, and you still needed a strong enough firearm to puncture it. (Edit again cont.: Which is why picks and mauls were so good against them.) Leather armors? *laughs* Yeah, they don't really stop anything serious. Natural armors like crocodilian osteoderms? Don't care if the attack is ranged, melee, or AoE. Just how much energy is applied to any given point like other armors. So while the concept itself is interesting? I don't see it fitting anything. Then again, this is a game and the rule is fun, so if it turns out to be fun, who cares. Edit: To add to the confusion, would positional resist only apply to smash/lethal damage or all damage? And how would any damage other than smash/lethal make any amount of sense for being effective at melee but not at range? Positional defense is the only thing that works with fire, cold, energy, negative energy, and toxic. (Psychic only really works with psychic defense and resist.)

They could just apply an untouchable flag on the rescue NPCs that drops when the capture spawn aggroes. That would be simpler than trying to implement positional resistance. Edit: Even better: Untouchable until after freed.

I'm not seeing the rationale behind this suggestion. Debt is easy to get. And if you leave off your toggles and just jump into a group of enemies near the hospital in PI or GV, very fast to get too. (Or the Hive since it has an in-zone hospital not terribly far from baddies as well. Just less convenient in my opinion.) Hells, in some cases, debt is easy to get even if you don't want it. (Just takes one or two brain fart moments from the player depending on the AT.) And as far as Ouroboros goes? Not every mission is even in Ouroboros. (Edit: Otherwise I wouldn't be so leery of using my Summon Wailer Queen power, I mean, Magic Box temp power, knowing it can never be replenished.) Nor is how the player might tackle the mission lacking their full enhancement slotted build and +5 levels of powers necessarily the same.

No, I don't exclusively solo. Just mostly. There is a small group of friends I team with on Friday and Saturday if they are on, and a slightly larger group of friends I am willing to team with if they need a body for some reason. On exceedingly rare occasions, I team with someone I am asked to so I can help him/her/them build his/her/their base until I can teach the individual how to do so for themselves. (Since I'm relatively addicted to base building....) However, I spend well more than 80% of my time solo. Most of my in-game personal interactions are in the group chat channel. As for the forums, I specifically avoided it for almost all my time playing. Never even visited it during Live. And only came to it when a GM moved a complaint about a mission problem to the Bugs section of the forums. I have been spending a surprising amount of time on the forums since. Mainly to see what ideas people come up with. I like to read what people come up with. Whether a bio in-game, which is exceedingly rare these days unfortunately, to the ideas and debates in the forum. (Edit: And being highly opinionated, finding myself unable to not respond to most posts in some fashion.)

I really need to cut some of my commentary out.... As far as your suggested pool goes, my only actual response was to cringe at rejuvenating circuit as an individual that hates being affected by that power. I am actually fine with your suggestion. The rest of my comment was meant as expression of general feelings to sets so heavily geared towards ally use only powers. Which was in response to the 'all ATs and powers should be useful while solo' comment from @PeregrineFalcon. Which is why I made it as part of my 'I resemble that remark' bit, which was meant to be humorous, after the quote. My next post was solely in response to the question put to me. Apologies for any confusion. Edit: And by hate I mean absolute, unreasoning, rip that power out or let me not accept it, levels of loathing. Sorry.

By team-only, I mean powers that can only be used on allies. Mainly Thermal Radiation where only 4 of the 9 powers can be used away from teams. It's why I never play a thermal or cold. I'm not saying they are bad sets. I'm not asking for them to be changed to be more solo friendly. Powers that boost or heal allies is a good thing. It just means it is a power set I will never have a reason to play. So adding team-centric powers to existing APPs/PPPs? Sure. Great. Go for it. Making a new APP/PPP that is only team-centric? Feels like soloists are being given the finger. Make them have an equal choice for team-centric or solo-centric? That works just fine for me. Even if in that 5-power set, 3 are team-centric.

Is that how it read to everyone? Apologies. I did not feel indignant. Nor was I trying to portray that feeling. My frustration was in that after I had asked for the poster to sell the idea, after I had said my questions were for the original poster, others were speaking on his/her/their behalf. My intent was to get the original poster to give more data for the OP. To give something for the devs, should any read the thread, to consider implementing the suggestion. I apologize if I came across as demanding, indignant, or anything else.

*cringes at rejuvenating circuit* I resemble that remark! I honestly don't care if more team-friendly powers are added. As long as they are not team-only. THAT annoys me. Not having team focused powers as an option, but the 'this set is only for teams' feel some sets have. So, sure. More team friendly powers among the APP/PPP choices. Go for it.

Okay, so fast AS gets the nerf hammer applied to it to bring it in line with slow AS. Or the lower damage sets' slow AS are boosted to bring them equal to the Fab 4. I don't care. As long as AS is not mutated into a gap closer and remains a stalker's ambush kill power.

Yes, I play stalkers. Stalkers, MMs, and corruptors are my three favorite ATs to play. I play solo. Not quite exclusively as I team roughly once a week. And yes, Placate gives me Hide on demand. Which I use when I hit a boss or EB and he does not oblige me by curling up and immediately dying. Or if I am trying to isolate said boss/EB. Or if my health just nose-dived and I want to get the hell out of dodge without whatever just munched me getting in any parting shots. Or when I'm on a team and the AV just got held by the team so my long form AS can actually build up and land.

Except the stalker will still be in combat mode and not be able to use long form AS anyway. That is one power in the set. That still has the fast form version available. As contrasted to the Thermal, Ice, or the other sets that have half their sets only usable on teammates and making the set almost useless while solo. I'm not hearing any complaints about that either. It sincerely feels like you and the OP are cherry picking. Or arguing in bad faith. Just because a power is improved to be usable during combat instead of just prior to combat does not negate the "gank" intention of the power. It just means that after people complained, the devs agreed that AS and snipe as strictly combat openers was too limited and so expanded them to be both combat opening gank attacks and mid-combat speed attacks. And you lost me with this argument....