Wobegone

I'd like to apologize to the OP for derailing the thread,, the community, and especially to @Infinitumfor my being unreasonably aggressive and emotional. I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

Okay, last time I'm gonna address this topic. The 'Tanker's role' is pretty well know by everyone by now. Both CoH and WoW have been around long enough for one generation, DnD and other PnP games for the previous generation. I've lived through both. I know what a fucking 'tank' is supposed to do. I know their role. CoH in it's current incarnation simply doesn't need a Tank. That role is not necessary. How many times have you joined a team lately and not seen a Tank and thought 'Hmm, we need a tank'? The answer is never. Look, I love Tanks. I love the idea of Tanks. I actually miss the need for Tanks. But that isn't the current reality for the current game. Every time I hear one of you lecture that 'The Tankers role is' such and such I wanna scream. You're pedantic fools.

In regards to the stealth topic I'd like to add one more thing. Tanks are largely superfluous in todays game, outside of low level content. This is the elephant in the room no one likes to talk about. I've tried to stay as relevant with my Dark Tank as possible, he's tough as nails, can absorb enormous amounts of punishment, and feels like a tank. But in most endgame content he's just another character. Yes there are specific Task Forces where a Tank is necessary, but they aren't often run by the playerbase. Although I've always loved CoH specifically because you dont need a trinity to succeed, more and more I've found my favorite tank being less and less useful. So I made him a stealth specialist for when the occasion called for it, and he's good at it when I turn off certain toggles. Anything to feel more needed in a team. Perhaps my experience is unique, and I'm just a fool. Won't be the first time.

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These two statements appeared in the same friggin' post for cryin' out loud. Tanks are perfectly capable of effectively stealthing most content. I occasionally do with my Dark Tank. Every bit of evidence you've presented regarding perception applies to every other AT. You've even admitted you don't or won't turn off Taunt auras. Of course why would you when you don't consider stealthing a Tank's job? The crux of your argument is basically 'Tanks can't stealth because that isn't their job'.

I'm just speculating here...but is the problem more with fear of streaming that's monetized?

I just want to clarify a little more. I like the current system regarding IOs converters, and recipes. I've been successful using the current system to outfit all my alts and have a LOT of leftover influence. I'm rich....by no means the richest player, but I have billions in cash and billions more in stored ATOs/Purples/Winter IOs. But I still have reservations on the current system because the friends I've recruited to play have been at best lukewarm with the same system, and have ended up leaving the game. Perhaps this simply wasn't the right game for them. One thing in common though is they were extremely casual players with limitied play time. They didn't want to spend extra time 'playing the market'. I just wonder how prevelant that attitude is, and want to make it as easy as possible for new players to enjoy he same benfits with as little effort possible. It's entirely possible I'm just unlucky regarding my friends. This simply wasn't the right game for them. That doesn't take away the sting of seeing them play for a few weeks and leave forever. I don't have answers unfortunately. But I continue to have questions.

This is true. I only have anecdotal evidence to draw on, but one of my friends wanted nothing to do with the market...so he vendored recipes. When it became clear his tanker was "cute but squishy" according to a teammate he quit and hasn't been back. What if we get rid of recipes altogether and instead received enhancement drops? Would that incentivize folks like my friend by simplifying the entire IO process?

For clarity, I'm not suggesting getting rid of converters entirely. There's no question converters have lowered and stabilized the cost of the most expensive IOs. There's also no question that most of the 'starter' set IOs have increased in price because of converters. Also, after re-reading my post, I used a bit of hyperbole. Yellow enhancements generally go for a few hundred thousand. Yellow defense and resistance IOs are consistently over a million.

This isn't entirely true. Yes, high volume commonly converted enhancements like Luck of the Gambler would skyrocket in price. Just about everything else would drop significantly, as there would no longer be competitive bidding on yellow enhancements for conversion. It's a mixed bag. Those that take the time to convert can easily finance every build they want. Those that don't need to find other means of gaining influence. New players, aside from having to learn how to use the market with little or no help from game tutorials, find themselves looking at what used to be cheap enhancements going for millions. I think the new SO drop changes was a step in the right direction for new players, and generic IOs are still cheap. I love the idea of a comprehensive market tutorial, but the (one time) reward for a new account should be significantly higher than what's been suggested so far.

Indeed! I didn't convey that in my earlier post, but the danger was thrilling...quite unlike most regular content. Early Vahz fights come the closest as far as incoming damage, but the enemies are faster, more aggressive, and more numerous Goldside. I went almost entirely Resistance-Warden last time. Gonna try again with a Mind Controller Loyalist next time. Should be fun.

I don't know man, I just went through with a Scrapper, and had a difficullt time. Enemy groups are much tougher and in larger numbers. Did you go through with a Stalker? I can see stealth and placate being huge advantages with some of those fights.

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I can't speak for the Soldier, but the Brute will be just fine(I have a level 31 Rad/Rad scrapper). It'll be a bit squishy until the mid to late 20s though. You do get a nice passive regen and recovery boost early. Radiation Armor develops into a top tier set. Radiation Melee is fine...not my favorite but I'm only 31. For a 1st character solo project, I went with a Mace/Willpower Brute, and I'm glad I did. He was self-sufficent early and the lack of Influence wasn't painful at all. It was a powerful and satisfying combo.

This will be true for most of my characters, but every once in a while I like to level from scratch sans bonus xp and seed money.

I think there's still value with early frankenslotting and set bonuses. Early SOs fill gaps beatifully though. A perfect example is the scrapper I'm leveling in Praetoria-Science enhancements are rare drops so far.

This is the part that's baffling to me. You questioned earlier why people continued to play if they didn't like gated content. It's because while gated content was annoying and largely unnecessary, it wasn't a dealbreaker. On the other hand, it was apparently a dealbreaker for 'lots' of players when gated content disappeared? This doesn't make much sense to me. I'm not saying this to disparage. The closest example I can think of is WoW, when they made it easier to achieve raid gear. Some players were furious because people didn't have to 'earn' gear anymore. But that analogy isn't close because most gated content in CoH was cosmetic in nature. Am I missing something? It's entirely possible...I'm not the brightest bulb.

I'm not sure if the following is relevant to you, but here goes: Monday on Everlasting I joined a Penepole Yin Task Force and the leader had the difficulty cranked up. There were several players who didn't have set IOs, and there were a few defeats here and there; still manageable, but a bit of a challenge. In the final mission, the ambushes overwhelmed the team. I saw inspirations popping everywhere, including my own, but players started dropping left and right. There was a sense of desperate excitement I rarely get from teams, even ones as low as level 20. I managed a Howling Twilight just before I dropped getting two teammates back in action...at that point there were only three of us up, and the other two were in danger. By the skin of our teeth we managed to hang on and turn defeat into victory, or at least that's how I fealt. Surviving a potential team wipe was the most fun I've had since I came back. Outside of the occasional Positron or, more rarely a Hollows team, there simply isn't any danger in team play, even PuGs. IO sets are simply too powerful. Now, I like that power. I have enough Influence and stashed IOs to stot ATOs and Winter sets right at level 10. But I missed that sense of danger. The only way I can think of to get that level of danger on a more regular basis is self imposed restrictions. Perhaps a Super Group and/or static team that eschewed set IOs and only slotted say....at maximum level 25 generic IOs. Personally, I also miss flying/jumping/running from zone to zone. Everyone is in such a damn hurry. Again, not sure if any of this is relevant, but that Yin brought back some good memories of my early days of CoH.

Although your single target attack chain won't improve until level 28 when you get Clobber, you DO get Burn at level 18 and Whirling Mace at 20. They wil help immensely. So be patient, it gets better. War Mace is a bit of a late bloomer, especially on Tanks, but it's worth the wait.

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