EnjoyTheJourney

The in-game experience isn't determined at the level of individual powers (ie: trees); rather, it's the builds that can be put together with specific powers in them that matter (ie: the forest). But, the level of analysis being cited here to supporting nerfing RoP is the "tree" level; this is very clear when the lack of value of other sorcery powers to take with rune is waved aside as a reason to delay the planned nerf to RoP. And, at the level of "the forest" in-game builds with RoP in them are not meta and don't even overperform. Or, if there are specific builds for which they overperform then there are likely to be ways to manage that without nerfing duration and making RoP thoroughly unappealing to a broad range of builds for which it is not overperforming.

First, thank you for taking the time to explain the rationale behind nerfing RoP. At least we now understand the reasoning behind it. Second, there is perhaps a different perspective at work when evaluating RoP. On the one hand, selecting it means accepting hefty tradeoffs and it's finicky to use. But, with other origin power pool T5s (and armor T9s) being broadly less appealing than RoP, when looking one power at a time, it is (understandably, even predictably) challenging to avoid judging RoP without the "anchoring effect" affecting one's assessment. The significant downsides of RoP and the cognitive bias of the "anchoring effect" are probably key reasons why RoP may be seen as overpowered, while in actual gameplay builds with RoP in them are far from being game-breaking and are in fact not necessarily overperforming at all. So, a disconnect still exists here. Some look at the power on its own, see an outlier, and think "nerf it." Others are looking at the effects at the level of builds they run and are saying "This isn't meta, not by a long shot, and it's not even overpowered. There is not a strong case for a nerf here." One player's take on this, FWIW. Whether I agree with this change or not, I still appreciate all the thought and care being taken by the devs to make the game better.

The proposed change to singy would make at least some ranged grav characters think twice about taking it. Pulling mobs back into squishie ranks isn't a good way to win over teammates, particularly when it pulls mobs out of range of melee taunt auras. Putting in an "attractant" power makes good thematic sense for grav characters and brings some interesting tactical choices into the game. If it's a "drop" power then that would be potentially quite helpful. FWIW, I use fold space on my poison defender quite a bit. I try to use it either up ahead of the team to group mobs up for their arrival or near the tank / brute if they're taking alpha; it's less potentially disorienting and frustrating for teammates that way.

If there's going to be feedback about the rationale behind turning RoP into a particularly unpopular pick, here are a few questions that seem pertinent: 1. Why 60 seconds instead of 90 seconds for RoP? 2. Is fostering build diversity an objective borne in mind when calibrating powers? 3. What role are power pools intended to play in fostering build diversity, if that is seen as a priority? How will that be reflected in power calibration choices, going forward? As a way of mitigating the "T9 replacement concern", if it is a concern, give resists to RoP on a sliding scale, somewhat similar to SR but with a lower ceiling on the overall boost. Give the maximum allowed resistance boost to characters that have very low resists (ie: highest resist boost for resistances of 0). The closer a specific character resist is to 90%, the less resistances they gain. Make the resistance boost fall off quite hard when resistances approach 75%, for example. This helps to minimize the value of RoP to resistance based melee types that may otherwise have taken a T9 in their armor powerset (probably not because most armor T9s are just plain bad, but just in case its a concern). RoP would no longer have the potential to give melee types a 90 second crashless godmode.

This has probably been voiced by others, but in case it hasn't ... Can super speed be given a slider to set the run speed anywhere from about 50% of its top speed to "top speed?" Alternatively, if a slider would be too much work then can a toggle be chosen or an alternative version of the power selected (ie: like master / practiced brawler). Super speed is very awkward to use in caverns. It also requires suspension of one's belief in the sense that the runner seems to have zero control over the speed at which they run. Having a "lower speed" option would help to make it more enjoyable to use. Thank you for considering this, as well as for all the work you do make this game fun.

Agreed about the RoP / T9 armor power comparison; "let RoP suck as badly as T9 armors" seems a less than compelling argument. Regarding mez, the post you're quoting seems to mean something different than what you're referencing, something more aligned with how RoP works. RoP provides part-time protection against mez at the high cost of 3 power picks and heavy investment in recharge. That doesn't warrant the phrasing "a good way around being mezzed." Even when paired with melee core (foregoing the otherwise potentially appealing assault hybrid choices, another tradeoff) there is still a 30 second gap without mez protection.

Meknomancer: FWIW, a few ideas to consider ... Consider putting the Overwhelming force "KB to KD / % KD" IO into the zombies. With three of them having a knockdown chance on every attack, including their toxic AOEs, mobs fall down quite a bit. It's noticeably helpful for bosses. Slotting for soul extraction can reasonably be done in a variety of ways. One plan is to ensure enough acc to reliably hit, to get a bit of bonus damage if possible, and to put several pet defense / resistance boosting unique IOs into soul extraction. That offers more slotting flexibility for your other pets. A mixed defense / resistance build seems to work well for a necro stormie MM, rather than going "all in" on defense; consider giving it a try to see if survivability is better than expected that way and if you end up with more interesting and better slotting options, as well.

One more hand raised for "Was surprised to hear there are people who believe RoP is a significant barrier to taking armor T9 powers." That's not been my experience. Rather, the generally low value added by taking T9 powers has been the biggest barrier to taking T9 powers.

The highlighted sentence is an obviously correct statement, but only because the reasoning is circular. A simple hypothesis to set forth would be that people respond to nerfed powers by choosing them less in the future, with bigger nerfs generally leading to a bigger drop in usage. A corollary hypothesis could be that when powers are buffed they're likely to be chosen more often, with bigger buffs generally leading to a bigger uptick in usage. Are you suggesting these hypotheses do not accurately predict how people tend to react to buffs and nerfs to powers? If so, do you know of data that supports that claim? Alternatively, do you have a good argument for why those likely to choose sorcery less in the future (or not at all) would as an alternative pick something other than the most popular pools? If so, then what would your reasoning be for suggesting that? Better yet, do you know of data supporting that claim?

How is what Matt Miller said over a decade ago relevant in the here and now? Also, how could we square the idea of getting players to focus on one alt with being given 1000 character slots per server in homecoming? If the homecoming dev team wants players to enjoy alts, which 1000 character slots per server seems to suggest, then there's a solid case for supporting build diversity when making power calibration decisions. Ergo, there's a case for making a broad selection of power pools appealing to players, rather than just the 3 or 4 pools that are currently popular. In the aggregate, making rune an even more unpopular pick by nerfing its duration will probably just increase the proportion of cookie cutter builds that players run. Are there reasonable grounds for making any other prediction about how build diversity will change if the proposed change to rune goes live?

Regarding poison builds, there was an alternative build posted to defender forum to the RoP / melee core hybrid build mentioned by Frosticus in his guide on poison. IIRC it was based around clarion, the fighting pool, hasten, and leadership powers. In other words, it's a cookie cutter build. That's where most poison builds would move if the RoP duration nerf finds its way out of beta and into the core game. To echo an idea mentioned by ScarySai, "different" doesn't mean "better." My poison build gets defeated more often than several other builds I have. For example, my more cookie-cutter, hover blasting stormies survive better and also help teams move noticeably faster. Hell, my storm / water / electric defender has often solo'd one side of the final ITF mission at +4x8 while 7 other teammates run the other side. It's a race to see which one can make it to Rom faster. The team usually, but not always, wins that race. Even when they win it's usually not by much (in truth, when racing a stronger team some mobs get left behind to stay closer to even with the team, but in a 1 defender vs 7 teammates race that's still not a bad result). I regularly get comments along the lines of "I've never seen a defender do that much damage" because that character is usually ahead of the tank decimating spawns with a FR - nuke - other AOE - two-tornadoes-in-tow, then-drop-a-lightning-storm-to-help-with-cleanup-combo before the team arrives. I seldom get such comments for my poison defender; she's also usually ahead of the tank, but she doesn't destroy spawns at the same rate my storm defender does. Part of why I like my poison / fire / soul defender isn't because she's mechanically my strongest character, but because she isn't a cookie cutter. A lot of the fun and yes, even joy that comes from playing a build like that comes from the experience of needing to think differently when playing them. The two characters I have that would have their plan for mez protection gutted by the RoP duration change would probably just get shelved if the change on beta goes live. They'd probably be replaced by other cookie cutter builds, if they're replaced at all.

I can see the appeal of a gale / hurricane build. In solo play, in particular, it seems likely to work very well both for RP purposes and in how it would function just fine.

Psyentist - Psy / SR / Psi sentinel wearing a lab coat. Ivy Burns - Poison / fire / soul defender whose battle phrase is "Sometimes poison burns ..." Walk Softly - staff / EA / body stalker Nockturnal - dark / TA corruptor Tank the Stars Above - rad / SS / soul tank Head Cold - ice / psi / ice dominator My excuse for all this silliness is that for safety reasons I've had cabin fever for quite some time now.

Powergamers are usually responding to game design and they tend to settle on particularly functional choices. There's not a lot of mystery about this. So, if build diversity is wanted then making the functionally best choices less obvious is key for bringing that about. On a connected point it's not that hard to figure out the relative value of power pools. Giving up either hasten or the fighting pool undermines recharge and sustain, which are key drivers of DPS and sustain for a plethora of builds. There are no near equivalents for them in the power pools and so they are *very* popular choices. Leadership offers "always on" benefits in the first three powers that are very helpful for team DPS and sustain and that stack with the same powers provided by others. There are no near equivalents to any of these three power pools. Picking at least two of these choices will tend to be done for a broad cross-section of builds across all archetypes. If you doubt that, then go scan some builds in different archetype forums and you'll see clear patterns. Regarding the claim that the RoP duration nerf "wrecks builds" is hyperbole, take a look at the poison guide by Frosticus to see how RoP and hybrid melee core are used to provide an alternative to clarion for mez protection. With RoP up for 90 seconds and melee core up for 2 minutes, down for 2 minutes, there are some occasional gaps in mez protection that result. But, this combination works well for a build that either lives or dies in the thick of battle, which poison defenders do and which some other builds do as well. That role for RoP will disappear if the duration is cut. Most such builds are likely to be reworked to include clarion destiny or to be shelved.

This is an insightful and almost certainly an accurate prediction. It would seem a key rationale for nerfing RoP is to equalize the duration of similar skills across pool powers. But, a focus on that "micro" objective will probably have perverse effects when looking at bigger picture objectives, such as promoting build diversity. Consider making more power pools worthwhile to select beyond the "big three" (speed, fighting, leadership) mentioned by Doomrider above, rather than less.

Shortening the duration on rune of protection would probably wreck multiple builds for quite a few players (I'm definitely in that camp, as two of my characters would probably move to the "wrecked" pile if rune duration is nerfed). Also, the result would be a smaller constellation of builds that are endgame viable, rather than an expansion of them. Please consider bumping similar pool powers up to 90 seconds duration instead of nerfing rune of protection. Also, as pointed out by others, make T9 powers more worthwhile to take, instead of nerfing RoP's duration. Hasten and the fighting pool are bigger constraints on build diversity. Especially hasten.

After having gotten T4 incarnates for the build posted just above it's clear that I've found my favorite type of MM to play. The build survives very well, helps teams go faster because of the debuffs, and even at +4x8 typically does just fine when separated from the rest of the team and flying solo. Single target damage is noticeably good. No playing whack-a-mole with ally or minion life orbs also helps quite a bit for enjoying the build. In most situations the minions do just fine without any direct help from my MM. And, in those situations in which keeping minions alive is difficult, well, that's OK; a quick summon here and there allows bodyguard to function. Plus, storm powers still contribute to mob control and allow for noticeable DPS to be contributed to a team even when it's challenging to keep minions consistently alive.

Thank you for your feedback! I had been thinking of adding in a reply to this thread earlier, more or less to pass along that I'd moved on to another MM build combo (I'm currently working a necro / storm / mu MM through incarnates). I didn't because it seemed the thread had been overlooked and nobody would be responding. Now I regret not providing a "closure" post, though, as you've taken the time to share thoughtful input. The better news is that your post has a good change of helping somebody, as it's thoughtful and reasonable. Mechanically the build mentioned in the OP above works quite well while leveling and in endgame. The ability to put absorb shields in place, life orbs in good shape, and endurance totals in good shape helps minions and teammates out quite a bit. Faraday cage is a great skill, as well. Also, there is no doubt that those who are more experienced with these sets could take the build to another level with some tweaks (or major changes, perhaps) and could also help it come closer to realizing its potential in actual gameplay. The main difficulty was that it wasn't a playstyle that I find enjoyable. It was never fun to play whack-a-mole with allies' ailing life orbs with a character that could heal. And, with EA it is not only possible to heal, but also to provide absorb shields and to help teammates with their endurance totals, which basically means tripling the number of things with which one can play whack-a-mole. It's a good thing there are plenty of people who enjoy that, though, because this kind of MM surely helps teams to be more successful.

Incarnates are currently being filled out and the build is coming along quite well so far. Playing "whack-a-mole" with dropping ally and minion life bars has never been much fun, and so this is probably the kind of MM that suits me best. Cardiac seems to have essentially erased endurance issues; when all the IOs are in place and T4 incarnates have been rounded out, it seems that end management is likely to be still be in a good place. The changes to MM endurance costs currently on beta make cardiac even more likely to work well. Easier end management has allowed more flexibility for tweaking the build, as described below ... The build has been tweaked to allow room for the epic single target hold, dropping victory rush to take it. Single target damage has noticeably more heft to it now, especially after some tweaks to make gloom and life drain hit harder. Plus, the absorb proc in the ST hold will probably noticeably boost survivability. The theft of essence +endurance proc IO is being replaced with a damage proc, as well. The damage proc IO in electric fences has been replaced with the stun proc IO, to help a bit more with minion survivability when taking alpha ahead of the rest of the team. Lost DPS is unfortunate. But, keeping minions alive better probably means more damage, in the end, because of more minion damage and less MM DPS lost to re-summoning in the middle of battles. When all pets are out (including lore pets, lightning storm and tornado, with 2 out of each, plus soul extraction), there will be up to 13 pets moving around, all doing damage. The single target damage ceiling should be very high, especially with up to 2 freezing rain patches debuffing mob resistances. For all the changes made, the build still undoubtedly has room to improve. Feedback is welcome. Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Deathstorm Shaman: Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Necromancy Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning Power Pool: Sorcery Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Zombie Horde -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(5), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(31) Level 1: Gale -- Empty(A) Level 2: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Apc-Acc/Rchg(7), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Apc-Dam%(9) Level 4: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(15) Level 6: Enchant Undead -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Life Drain -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), Dmg-I(21), TchoftheN-%Dam(25), GldJvl-Dam%(34) Level 10: Steamy Mist -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), GldArm-End/Res(23), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19), StdPrt-ResKB(21), Rct-ResDam%(43), LucoftheG-Def(46) Level 12: Grave Knight -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Dmg(15), SlbAll-Build%(17), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), ShlBrk-%Dam(33), AchHee-ResDeb%(46) Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(43) Level 16: Freezing Rain -- PcnoftheT-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A) Level 18: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A) Level 20: Rune of Protection -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(23), GldArm-RechRes(25), RechRdx-I(37) Level 22: Soul Extraction -- SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(29), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(33), EdcoftheM-PetDef(27), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(29), SvrRgh-PetResDam(34) Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40) Level 26: Lich -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Dmg-I(31), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(31), CldSns-%Dam(33), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(34) Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 30: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A) Level 32: Dark Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Tornado -- SlbAll-Dmg(A), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RechRdx-I(36), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(43) Level 38: Lightning Storm -- Thn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(39), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40) Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(42) Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(45), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dam%(46), EnrMnp-Stun%(50) Level 47: Electric Shackles -- Acc-I(A), GldJvl-Dam%(48), NrnSht-Dam%(48), UnbCns-Dam%(48), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(50), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(50) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(3) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(5), PwrTrns-+Heal(37) Level 1: Zombie Level 12: Grave Knight Level 26: Lich Level 0: Resistance Level 0: Resistance Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany ------------

Edit: What's below is left as it was before. The key change is that having play-tested the build given in the first response that the build plays well in a wide variety of different team-based gameplay scenarios (serving as alpha taker, contributing DPS, mob control, leading underpowered teammates, keeping up in speed runs, glowie hunts relying on invis, ...). The build is undoubtedly still not perfect. But it functions well enough. This build differs from many MM builds in that the control and chaos of storm and the lich, together with minions' personal heals are intended to allow them to survive; if they don't survive then, well, Darwinian selection has occurred and another gets summoned in their place. In more functional terms, this build is intended to be taking alpha in most situations, in part to get minions attacking without bothering to direct them. Resists with either melee core or RoP up are very solid. Defenses are high enough that they can be boosted to or beyond the softcap with help from teammates. Barrier is available as a panic button. A heal is also available as a regular part of the attack chain. My initial sense is that ST DPS can be particularly good and that AOE will be mediocre compared to taking a blast set in conjunction with storm. But, hopefully the autonomous and concurrent nature of minions' damage contributions, compared to a blast set, leads to "higher highs" for DPS contributed to teams than a comparable storm / <insert blast set here> build. It's not clear this build will live up to its intentions. Also, there are some fundamental choices that are difficult to figure out. For example, compared to cardiac core is agility core alpha sufficient for end management and better for DPS because of more tornados / lighting storms / freezing rain patches? Or, is cardiac core better than agility core because of easier end management and better proc damage? Also, if cardiac is ultimately taken and end management turns out to be reliably easy then I might replace the Theft of essence +end proc in life drain with a panacea "heal / absorb" IO to make the heal stronger, or a damage proc if survivability isn't much of an issue. As a technical issue, I'm not certain about the duration for which extracted souls fight before disappearing. Ninety seconds sounds right, but it's not clear from Mids if this is the case. The most recent draft of a build is given below. If what's below is helpful for others, then that's always welcome. Feedback would also be welcome. Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Deathstorm Shaman: Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Necromancy Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning Power Pool: Sorcery Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Zombie Horde -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(5), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(31), EdcoftheM-PetDef(48) Level 1: Gale -- Acc-I(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(50), FrcFdb-Rechg%(50) Level 2: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Apc-Acc/Rchg(7), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Apc-Dam%(9) Level 4: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(15) Level 6: Enchant Undead -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Life Drain -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), GldJvl-Dam%(25), ThfofEss-+End%(34) Level 10: Steamy Mist -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19), StdPrt-ResKB(21), GldArm-ResDam(43), GldArm-End/Res(46) Level 12: Grave Knight -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Dmg(15), SvrRgh-PetResDam(17), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SlbAll-Build%(33), AchHee-ResDeb%(46) Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(43), Rct-ResDam%(48) Level 16: Freezing Rain -- PcnoftheT-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A) Level 18: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A) Level 20: Rune of Protection -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(23), GldArm-RechRes(25), RechRdx-I(37) Level 22: Soul Extraction -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(29), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(27), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(29), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(34) Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40) Level 26: Lich -- SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(27), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(31), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(31), CldSns-%Dam(33), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(34) Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48) Level 30: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A) Level 32: Dark Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Tornado -- SlbAll-Dmg(A), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RechRdx-I(36), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(43) Level 38: Lightning Storm -- Thn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(39), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40) Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(42) Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(45), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dam%(46), JvlVll-Dam%(50) Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 49: Victory Rush -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(3) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(5), PwrTrns-+Heal(37) Level 1: Zombie Level 12: Grave Knight Level 26: Lich Level 0: Resistance Level 0: Resistance Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany ------------

Does the following build strike a good balance between damage and survivability? A couple of personal pecadillos are that having a lot of pet defeats isn't fun (and a big DPS loss, as well) and that having some ability to deal direct damage is desirable. Also, this would be mostly a teaming build. A choice was made not to explore end drain as a defensive mechanic. Instead, enhancing recharge and defense were priorities. As a result, hell on earth is up about 50% of the time and key EA powers have a very short recharge (rejuvenating circuit has a 2.21 second recharge, insulating circuit has a 5.52 second recharge, energizing circuit has 11.1 second recharge, ...). Also, defense totals were brought to 19+ across the board so that team buffs and/or insps could fairly easily bring make defense totals into another viable layer of damage reduction. Hover was chosen over combat jumping to stay out of the melee fray; this choice leaves a measure of vulnerability to immobilization between castings of Faraday Cage and combat jumping may replace hover, at some point. As always, if this helps somebody then that would be a good outcome. But, this build is undoubtedly not perfect and feedback is welcome. Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Spark Demon: Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning Secondary Power Set: zn_Electrical Affinity Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Summon Demonlings -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(15), CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(33), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(33), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(34) Level 1: Shock -- EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(A) Level 2: Rejuvenating Circuit -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(11), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(13), Prv-Absorb%(15) Level 4: Corruption -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dcm-Build%(9) Level 6: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Crack Whip -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(17), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(17), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), PstBls-Dam%(19), JvlVll-Dam%(21) Level 10: Energizing Circuit -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(48), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(48) Level 12: Summon Demons -- SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(23), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(25), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(25) Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(46), WntGif-ResSlow(48) Level 16: Faraday Cage -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), UnbGrd-ResDam(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(40), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(43) Level 18: Hell on Earth -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(36), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(36), EdcoftheM-PetDef(37), SvrRgh-PetResDam(37) Level 20: Empowering Circuit -- GssSynFr--Build%(A) Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A) Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResKB(29) Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(29), ImpSwf-Dam%(31), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(31) Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31) Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33) Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Insulating Circuit -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(39), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(40), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(40), Pnc-Heal(43) Level 38: Charged Armor -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(39), GldArm-RechRes(39) Level 41: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(42), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(43) Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Rgn-Knock%(46), PstBls-Dam%(46) Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(50), ShlWal-Def(50) Level 49: Discharge -- PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5), Mrc-Rcvry+(5) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3), PwrTrns-+Heal(3) Level 1: Cold Demonling Level 1: Fiery Demonling Level 1: Hellfire Demonling Level 12: Ember Demon Level 12: Hellfire Gargoyle Level 26: Demon Prince Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany Level 50: Support Core Embodiment Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon ------------

Doomguide - I also noticed the heavy preponderance of ranged def debuffs when reading the wiki, plus some resistance debuffs. Basically, longbow are a bit like ranged Cims, but only more dangerous because resistance debuffs are particularly damaging when used by mobs that also have lots of defense debuffs. The advice to carry purples and oranges should work just fine for LRSF, given the debuffs in play. It might be simpler, though, to just run my poison defender in content that she's better suited to handle, which is pretty much all other content. I have two characters that do better than fine in LRSF runs and I'll probably just stick with them instead*. It's a bit of a lazy approach, probably, but it's most likely what I'll do. Thank you all for your feedback. It is much appreciated. * A Storm / Water defender with full invis and softcapped ranged defenses, plus a Psy / SR sentinel with stealth and softcapped positional defenses.

Thank you all for the feedback. Thinking about the feedback here and reflecting on the SF it's most likely a combination of three main things that went wrong. First, with ranged defense at only 20% debuffs were getting through fairly often, at times. I'll read more about longbow and learn what debuffs they use. I'll also be more proactive about using defense inspirations. Second, I underestimated how much damage can pile up when fighting multiple AVs at the time. Since on most past LRSF runs I played characters that were at least softcapped the rate of incoming damage wasn't really an issue of concern. But, that misplaced overconfidence based on past experiences led to some bad positioning choices. I also settled at times for targeting through the tank instead of trying look more carefully at the AVs to read which way they were facing. Third, I kept stubbornly trying to rez after defeats and then got defeated again in a few seconds or less in several cases. One hit was for over 2100 hit points, received almost immediately after rezzing, at which point my character was still rising off the ground ... only to sink back down again. The effects of bad positioning strike more than once in such situations because if my character was in the line of fire when defeated the first time, that may not have changed when trying to rez a few seconds later. A bit more patience about when to rez would seem appropo, and a bit more effort to check on where AVs were pointed when casting cones / PbAOEs would also make sense.

I'm still pretty new to the LRSF. My previous runs have been set to the lowest difficulty, or at least I've somehow been shielded from the difficulty being set at +4x8, with very few defeats suffered in the first half dozen runs or thereabouts. That changed when I ran my poison / fire / dark yesterday in a speedy +4x8 LRSF. There were several players who didn't get defeated at all (including a fire / temporal blaster, which suggests knowledge of the strike force is key to doing well). But, my poison / fire / dark defender, who typically thrives in melee, probably had more defeats during that one strike force run than she has had during all previous playtime put together. No other in-game challenges even came close, including MLTFs, +4x8 ITFs, numerous Tin/Pex runs, and so on. So, I have questions about what specific knowledge is needed for the LRSF to keep being in melee safer (or when is it best to stay out of melee as a poisoner). I also have questions about whether her build may need rethinking, if clear flaws are visible (build details below). Something that can't easily be conveyed through a Mids snapshot is that she had T4 incarnates for everything except interface and judgment when running LRSF yesterday. Also, combat teleport, teleport friend / foe, and fold space are the teleport skills actually taken, which can't be shown with the Mids version I am currently using. Feedback is welcome! Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Ivy Burns: Level 50 Science Defender Primary Power Set: Poison Secondary Power Set: Fire Blast Power Pool: Sorcery Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Teleportation Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Envenom -- HO:Enzym(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(42) Level 1: Flares -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11) Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(7), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(7), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(9), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), CldSns-%Dam(13) Level 4: Fire Ball -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(13), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Rgn-Knock%(17) Level 6: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(42), Frb-Stlth(43) Level 8: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(19), Rct-ResDam%(21), Ksm-ToHit+(25) Level 10: Teleport -- WntGif-ResSlow(A) Level 12: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A) Level 14: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(19), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(21), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(34), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(40) Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17) Level 18: Teleport Foe -- Empty(A), Empty(43) Level 20: Rune of Protection -- UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(31), RechRdx-I(37) Level 22: Aim -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(46) Level 24: Team Teleport -- Empty(A) Level 26: Poison Trap -- SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27), NrnSht-Dam%(27), GldNet-Dam%(29), UnbCns-Dam%(29), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(33) Level 28: Blaze -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(34), GldJvl-Dam%(37), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Apc-Dam%(45) Level 30: Paralytic Poison -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(31), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(42) Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb(33), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33) Level 35: Blazing Bolt -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(36), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(36), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), StnoftheM-Dam%(37), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(50) Level 38: Inferno -- Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Dam%(40), Erd-%Dam(40) Level 41: Oppressive Gloom -- RopADop-Stun/Rng(A) Level 44: Dark Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-ResDam(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(46) Level 47: Soul Drain -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(48), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(48), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Obl-%Dam(50) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Quick Form Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(3) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(5), PwrTrns-+Heal(5) Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Phantom Radial Superior Ally ------------

Thank you once again for further feedback. The build is filling out nicely, with the third T4 incarnate about to be taken. The build works well overall and is a lot of fun to play. Still, I might end up switching to psychic mastery, instead of dark. Dark leads to better AOE overall, which is appealing. But, it also adds to the variability in the build's performance, reaching higher heights when soul drain is saturated and lower lows when fighting hard targets without many nearby targets for soul drain. Since there is already variability in how the build performs for other reasons (ie: how buffed defenses are when relying on barrier, melee hybrid, and RoP, plus how many debuffs are working on mobs and to what extent), having a steadier performance level and consistently strong ST damage would make how well the build will handle any given situation a bit easier to anticipate. Edit & PS: The teleport skills have made the build more fun to play. Fold space helps for saturating soul drain, ahead of nuking. Spawns essentially melt when that happens. Combat teleport and poison trap is a helpful start, as well, providing time to cast envenom and weaken. The phantom radial pets are performing well, as well; adrenalin boost is an excellent buff and that alone makes taking the phantom radial lore pick worthwhile. Finally, getting more mobs in melee range with fold space usually helps survivability, perhaps surprisingly, by ensuring that venomous gas works on more mobs and by getting more mobs into range for poison trap. Essentially, Hops' experience that the teleport skills make the build better fits very well with my own experiences thus far.