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I mean, it covers it -sometimes-. Theres some tier6 bonus, procs, and other things that would make EB a more fun set instead of needing KB>KD or a temp buff (I'm never using those and it's not a real solution to anything)

I have no idea what you're talking about in the first paragraph. But the point was, You have to sacrifice some form of improvement, be it recharge/damage/accuracy/endurance etc etc to put the KB>KD in energy blast and it makes it a lower tier set (even if i love it and play it a lot) because of that one issue. P2W buffs are for cowards 😞

This is the last reply you get and I'm not gonna be nice even if GM's keep telling me to be. You called me a liar by saying the scenario is false, because apparently in your mind a low level team dealing with KB in a +2 TF couldn't possibly be killed. Spoilers bud, they can and do. If you don't grasp the concept of how knocking enemies all around can cause actual mitigation issues (the tank holding aggro and control patches/healing) and DPS issues (nobody properly using their AOE) then you must exclusively play on +0-1. KB is not "good" mitigation. It's minor mitigation that can be effective if used on bosses (ST) early game. Knocking enemies away from melee and AoE is a direct DPS loss especially when it isn't needed. "Support" on a whole is already struggling in CoH due to power creep so at end game KB is actually a huge negative and is bad. Early game it can have its use but overall the misuse is bad and makes KB viewed poorly. Your narrative that you're pushing that KB is some magical form of support mitigation and damage increases is not only false, it's intentionally misleading and at worst a sad attempt at elitism by suggesting everyone else is just using it wrong, what's the saying? "Am i out of touch, no it's all the kids who are wrong." and don't give me that exaggeration nonsense of "I saved a defender by knocking the enemies away!" It's a complete lie and the scenerio basically never happens. next you're gonna tell me you primary healed Hami with aid self.

This is the best solution honestly, makes everyone happy and new IO sets are always cool

See now you're just being rude because someone disagrees with you, that's where conversation breaks down. It's one thing to go "eh maybe you're adding on" it's entirely another to call it a lie or someone a liar. You also completely misused what i said to argue a point i did not make. ST "not being great" early game is a fact, you don't get your strong ST attacks until later. AoE is king of CoH end game meta it's all about how good your AoE is while ST is still important, having good AoE is more important (again see EM changes). Though since you were rude, I've lost most interest in talking to you. (that means i won't reply further)

Oh ho i wouldn't be throwing around the exaggeration claim, that's the primary defense tactic of people who hype up KB ever being used to save people. Most people don't have great ST early game, be it the powers or slotting but ST is usually not great overall and neither is AOE but AOE is stronger than ST in current coh, even early AOE. I do a lot of TF's and I've seen early level people knock stuff around and because everyone spaces out aggro slips and often support can't aoe heal everyone and it falls apart quick (see posi part 1). Just as I've seen people knock enemies back into AoE's. It happens on both areas, idk why you'd claim it doesn't that's just not true. We're also not talking about +0 or +1 here. Those baby difficulties don't count for anything.

Putting a damage proc or any other kind of IO instead of a KB>KD is the issue. It's literally forcing you to because of the sets design being knockback the musical. As i've said before, I love energy blast so i just deal with it. However if you look at the set compared to other blaster sets it seemingly has a strong force of hand that the others don't. Now you could just not have those IO's and knock everything around like wild but we've been over that a thousand times. This is an issue at low level, maybe even more so because scattering enemies early game can be a death sentence if your team doesn't have good ST characters. Honestly we've moved beyond that as a solution and have just been casually talking about energy blast and KB IO's off topic and to the dismay of a GM or two I'm sure.

That's not gonna happen and not saying Naraka is/will do this, but most people will just claim they like whatever it is the way it is and never actually play it (see EM pre-changes) Energy Blast doesn't flow together at all, especially in blaster when you knock enemies away from your melee powers. It's not an advantage it's an even level to other blasters to be remotely competitive in damage output don't call it something it isn't. Peace bringers and Warshades are so far f#$@#d literally any thing that makes it smoother feels like a world of relief, not a great comparison. Damage in those KB>KD would make a lot of complaints die out, so you right.

That's a 1 power unique IO (the enhanced damage would be lower than a proc as a side note). Energy blast features 8 abilities with knockback and if you're being nice, 3 with knockback that would cause frustration. So assuming you put the IO into 1, that's still 2 that have multiple enemy Knockback or have it changed to KB at the cost of damage.

You'll never make much headway on the forums about Knockback. Discord and in game are very different sets of vocal individuals, many who discuss stuff exclusively on the discord view the forums very negatively and a lot of in-game discussions view both very negatively. It'll never be possible to accurately show how the real majority feels about anything just here on the forums. tl;dr The forums is a very vocal minority and does not actually reflect the majority's opinions.

It doesn't happen much, though I've seen it a couple times. I always bail on the team when it does. It hasn't happened at all since HC dropped in players

@Koopak There's a lot of ways around the KB and other sets have much smaller opportunity cost in removing their KB, but with energy the KB could just be countered by a small increase in damage across the board. give it a reason to have the KB, even if it just evens out to having a damage proc in those abilities. Then people who want to counter the KB just use the IO's to remove it without suffering the damage loss. So removing the KB isn't even needed in energy and it'd make the set a little stronger for people who do use KB for whatever. I digress though and we're slowly moving extremely off topic haha

Yeah but that's unique to EB, you're increasing your damage output to what other blasters do but less because you have to sacrifice damage to do it.

My energy blaster didn't take the cone because of the KB and the desire not to spend slots on it. I use KB>KD So i can jump in, nova and then use my AOE on the still grouped enemies without them scattering. If they did all get swept away from nova i wouldn't be able to follow up with my aoe for the survivors. I sacrifice 2 spots for potential damage to deal with the KB Which would negatively effect me/my damage output. I do however not have KB>KD in my ST attacks because it's just the 1 guy and he usually dies anyway or it's a boss. It does feel like the sets own kit doesn't flow well with itself sometimes. I kinda wish there was an optional toggle or whatever to remove the KB overall for energy blast, but that is unlikely to ever happen and since some people for whatever reason enjoy KB, I wouldn't want them to just remove it either. So it becomes a problem of damned if you do, damned if you don't as far as energy goes. I deal with it though and love my energy blaster (first character i ever made in 2004) anyway. I'm not a speed runner or impatient so my decreased damage output doesn't effect me in solo and on a team it doesn't matter, 6 people could only use brawl and everything would still die in 3 seconds now a days anyway.

Only in some cases. In others, it actually makes the power and set weaker than it already was. Energy Blast for example suffers greatly from over-use of KB in its abilities and the opportunity cost is a massive negative to fix. wont someone PLEASE think about the energy blasters!

You sure? The arguments for are usually "I aim it good" or "I like KB" with no further explanation or elaboration on how KB is a good status effect and not just a negative modifier in a majority of the game. Powerhouse was quoted as saying the only reason he didn't want to add a global IO is because the chance of bullying people without it, however that line of reasoning makes no sense because it happens anyway and to not have that issue you need multiple IO slots. I personally don't care. Knock back has been around forever and to be honest, it's been hated forever. Repel/Knock back has always been viewed as griefing your team. The only reason for a universal KB>KD IO at this point is to free up slots to let sets like Energy Blast use a damage proc instead of their KB>KD IO to have better damage, same for Tornado/Water spout. Other than those, repel will still be a thing. We'll never see a day where hurricane just knocks people down, so there's basically no reason to fight overly hard. edit: also hurricane would be busted OP if it didn't do repel, also what that person said is correct. Generally, the KB>KD IO increases the overall DPS of the thing you put it in (except energy blast)

That still happens, it just takes multiple slots to not have it said. Energy blast is probably the biggest set people give grief for being KB heavy, but really you just need the IO's in 2-3 of the powers depending on what you take. I only have KB>KD in my nuke and the AoE. ST KB is not a big deal.

Honestly, i kind of wish all sleeps just did this in general. For balance reasons, the reapply time could vary power to power.

If you do not understand how this game is balanced or adjusted, That's fine. You can live in max'd out IO world and think everything is overpowered, but don't come here and call people bad at the game because you lack a fundamental understanding of balance. Balance is primarily around SO, though a healthy mix of keeping IO's in mind. Not fully IO'd, max incarnate characters.

City of heroes is not balanced around the top players or IO's. What you're suggesting is that we balance the set around a fully IO'd character. this is fundamentally against the games design. Also; A lot of changes are made for power use pre-50 as well as that is the majority of the content in this game.

-everything can solo +4/x8 effortlessly now- Yes, it'll make mind control even better at doing it, that's the point of making the change so the set feels a little nicer and the powers come up a little faster so you can use it more often as you go from group to group in 3 seconds because thats all it takes anymore to kill groups. Assuming everyone here who wants the recharge reduced is just bad at the set is the most awkward approach to discussion to date.

Potent at what? Doing the same thing as every other control set but with a larger recharge?

100% Nerfing seeds would hurt Plant far more than people seem to understand. Not even a big reduction is needed either, we're talking like like 240s to like a 140s-160s area would be enough to smooth the set over.

I don't know how else to explain to you that it isn't about in game ability or skill levels. At this point, you're either trolling or just intentionally being insulting.

Knockback is the enemy of current AOE meta CoH Scattering enemies when instead your group could just AOE them to death in 2 seconds is counter productive. That said- I tend to view it was a negative modifier and honestly, other than be slightly annoying it doesn't do much in terms of slowing down the stomp fest. also, you're gonna ruffle a ton of feathers with this and it's gonna be really funny. Gonna see a lot of "Learning to aim it" and "Mitigation" thrown around.