TheAdjustor

I would recommend an alternate secondary to be included. SR with and without quickness comes to mind. Survival is of no concern in these tests. I am fairly certain I could have turned off every toggle except possibly rise to challenge and could have just used High Pain Tolerance and Rise To The Challenge. In a real world build I would have everything toggled on and tough, weave, combat jumping and maneuvers as well. After I did some playing with savage melee last night, I recalled the performance of the electric melee/ shield defense combo on live. Which quite frankly I would be willing to bet is still the highest performer in actually accomplishing mission goals. The combination of alternating Telenukes+Fire Ball was insane in it's effectiveness. I suspect Svage Melee shows similar performance, and once recharge reaches a given point you get a telenuke that obliterates spawns every 20-30 seconds or so.

Give it a try in a bit or tomorrow. Played around a little more with Savage Melee it seems very satisfying.

Thought I would give Savage Melee/ WP a shot at this test tonight. SM looked like it would be interesting as I have never played the set at all and it had some features that seemed to be test worthy. It has a mini game, and Teleport Nuke. The mini game is interesting as sets with a mini game are by definition more complex and harder to manage, hence should do more damage than sets without a mini game, and it would also compare better to TW with its momentum game. The Teleport Nuke seems even more interesting as it's very useful against targets that actually move. I have the suspicion Electric Melee would be enormously competitive on this test, and at higher levels of recharge would completely destroy TW. From personal experience fitting in an epic like pyre mastery or mu mastery is actually very significant to overall set performance, while most of the single target tests, seem to work around waterspout. Unfortunately the map seems to be gone.

I think this needs to put in the context of ranged blast sets being inherently weaker in both damage output and secondary effects. (As a general rule) . Blaster and Sentinel ranged damage could both use a bit of a boost.

It turns RoA from a ground targeted AoE to a targeted AoE. Pick your enemy click the macro and RoA drops on top of him.

Well and good then.

The 7:10 was my time using War Mace. I considered it a good choice as it has straight up the easiest rotations in the game. I set up my power tray as 1: Whirling Mace 2: Crowd Countrol 3: Shatter Shift 1: Clobber Shift 2: Pulverize And just went to town with 123,123, 123. I could probably do better with a different keybinding for my targeting as I have it set up to target nearest not next at the moment. I could also probably do better by turning on sprint, and slotting swift and hurdle since sprint/CJ are the only two movement powers allowed.

The problem is the "reasonable range" is moving. 40% or so "over performance" is now down to 6:30 vs 7:10 in a test that favors titan weapons (secondary with good endurance recovery, enemies that make it easy to maintain momentum and don't provide much of distraction from monitoring momentum) I was thinking about this test and then thought man this is kind of thing that put blasters in such a bad place. Even an assault rifle blaster could wreck this map far faster than any TW combination. The conclusion of course would be Nerf Assault Rifle !!!!

Fair enough, not to keep reiterating this but it needs to be said, any testing protocol will only tell you things it's designed to test. Most of the regular game play(regular = full team) in the game does tend to be AoE fests especially after the Paragon Studios developers had their war on Fed Ex missions the you could run for merits. Taking the ITF as an example 1st mission you have a bunch of hostages that are surrounded by full size spawns that need to be killed, and then you have a large spawn of Cimerorans in the temple that wind up getting killed and a spawn around the Oracle that need to be killed. Nothing particularly single target. 2nd Mission You have Nictus Crystal spawns and wandering Cims. The crystals are obviously single target tests, but the greater test here is, are you built well enough to survive the ambushes and continue to kill them. 3rd Mission: Kill the generals, Kill Requiem, Kill Romulus. Here the big single target item is the Romulus Phalanx Control. Usual way to deal with it seems to be grab Romulus, Requiem and whoever else wants to come down and AOE them and the computer to death all together. Being able to survive groups of EBs is something of the challenge here. 4th mission: Kill Romulus 3 times (not really) and then kill 200 Cims.: Funny enough the fastest I have ever seen that go, was the one time we had Ice/Cold corruptor on the team who debuffed everything so hard and then dropped blizzard on the spawn, that not only did everything die, everything died so close together in time that Romulus never rezzed. Killing 200 Cims is obviously a test of AOE and are your teams builds strong enough to allow you to split up and kill on your own. The game really is geared to gathering up large groups and arresting them with extreme prejudice. While single hard targets can and do form bottlenecks they are usually handled by teams

If it's not kosher it's at least treif.

Just ran the test maps. It's late only had time for 2 runs. Build Didn't realize till after I was done I hadn't bothered to actually put SOs into build up. All the other powers are slotted per the terms or in the case of pulverize worse. Wasn't using it much so it was hardly worth a respec. Combat jumping was taken and has a single def SO slotted. The rest were filled out with powers form the leaping pool and the medicine pool. 2 runs timed using windows stopwatch from the time I first leapt into a spawn till the time the mission complete message (times rounded to the nearest 10 seconds) 1st Run ~10:20 2nd run ~07:10 Primary difference in the runs: 1st run I was unfamiliar with the map and did not realize there was a mesa with spawns on it. would recommend changing this to shiva shard as there is no reason to test anyone's ability to play can you find the one that got away. 2nd Run: Being more familiar with the map and the enemies I switched from Killing the enemies where they spawned to a jump in hit, let the taunt aura aggro and herd three groups together before beginning the test. The herding strategy had to be done, because the specified settings produced groups of 6. A somewhat less than optimal choice. Seeing as WP can easily survive a full x8 spawn of these even with SOs would recommend testing at +0x8 in the future so the test is not one of how well you heard using combat jumping and Rise To The Challenge. This is a good example of the fact that variance in performance is much more influenced by how the user approaches using the set and their familiarity with the task at hand than the damage output of the set. Edit: Either way not bad for not having played war mace in over 7 years and back then on a tank.

Bingo !!

Have fun speculating on speculation then.

Ahh here we go https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Endurance That serves as a natural check on sets. Much of the OP in sets for raw damage, is really about the ability gain greater levels of recovery.

Going to see endurance as a real limiting factor then.

That raises a good question where should the balance point be ? The original devs balanced around SOs (something of a cop-out on their part). What is legitimate for the build ? Common IOs ? Uncommon IO sets ?, Rare Sets ?, Very Rare sets with ATOs ?

If I am not mistaken the source code is available. Speculate on top of speculation, it might be an idea to take a look at it before going further down that rabbit hole. Who knows maybe the work might actually get done that way so everyone can enjoy the fix.

It was doomed the moment the title was chosen.

When are you planning on doing this ? I would be up for it. My main needs the badge.

It's fun it's cool, it makes nice sounds when you hit things. Oddly enough I built a TW/Ninjutsu on test and decided not to bring him to live because TW didn't have anything that could be a scythe (IMNSHO)

Well is that a greater call to nerf claws and all the melee damage sets ? seeing as it's even higher ? Don't blow a gasket man, just messing with you. I use follow up in my rotation. Even so cracking 250 or so just isn't viable. Claws just doesn't have the ability to use procs the way other sets do and still somehow manages to gulp down my blue bar despite having 3.66 end/sec recovery (not including panacea and performance shifter)

In my current build I have the -res proc in slash. The attack chain using shockwave just isn't sustainable even for energy aura. Energy drain is slow animating and costs a significant amount of end to cast. I went with the KB->KD IO in shockwave as being better utility in general. If there is any place to complain here, it would be for my Archery/Tactical arrow blaster, that does similar damage (maybe less it's somewhat situational) while being incredibly less survivable.

Thanks Man. I really love gathering this stuff up. It's always good to see how other people think about the game. Edit: Wow Just got done looking at it. My main claws/ea is at the bottom of the pack for everything. I guess I should run screaming around nerf everybody else.

I was going on my experience on live and here. I had a fire/shield scrapper back in the day and recreated her here. Single Target was OK, but most of that came from Against All Odds. TW has a variety of tradeoffs that have been repeatedly brought up repeatedly. It's an endhog and needs very high levels of recharge not being the least. It also has a complicated and variable attack chain that depends on if you do or do not have momentum.

Absolutely. MOAR BADGES PLOX !!!