Cutter

I didn't directly mention it the second time, but as the -tohit is part of Cloak of Fear, and the builds I was comparing skipped that power... 😉 Now, in my first diatribe, I suggested adding some -tohit into Death Shroud as well as retaining it in CoF (along with a general buff to CoF). That would be a thing.

Something to think about? beamtrapper.costume

@Mr.Sinister I grabbed Ice as a comparison set because it was mentioned as another comparable in end use. And no, those numbers don't reflect EA active - just checked and it would take 2 hits to go over softcap on S/L/E/N. Elec was picked simply as another resist-based set for a better comparison of values. I wanted to stay away from the newest sets as they are generally considered as being skewed upwards. Also, you're correct, I didn't go into detail on the heals, because I'd previously acknowledged that DR is essentially the Best Heal In The Game (tm), and didn't want to inject editorial commentary into the flat number bit. To add that now: if the set lives and dies on one power, is the set good? (hyperbole sure, but by how much?) Re: Energy Absorption - according to Mid's, it costs 13 end to use, and with no enhancement returns 15 per hit. So yes 2 enemies to get any kind of significant return (unless you slot for endmod). Re: Conserve Power and Physical Perfection - those are in all 3 builds, CP slotted 3 rech, PP slotted 2 end 1 heal. Ice and Elec can get away with taking epic attacks instead if they want because those primaries have tools to deal; for Dark I'd argue there's a much higher opportunity cost. @Nanolathe I chose basic IOs because, rightly or wrongly, that's what I personally feel represents the baseline that today's game is built on. Whether that's accurate or not, desirable or not, whatever or not, I'm not the one to say. But that's where it came from. It also eliminates biases in set bonus chasing that shore up weaknesses. I wanted to present builds that don't do anything to plug the holes, so we can see how big those holes are. Both my original post and the recent one you refer to come around to the same conclusion you present, albeit mine was not stated the most clearly: Dark Armour fails as a set in that it does not deliver what it says it delivers. Dark Regeneration is, practically speaking, the only power that actually "drains your foes to strengthen you". Meanwhile, the powers that really help feed the set's thematic identity, and are the most unique - Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom - are in today's game entirely skippable, which is sad because they are what make DA different from the rest. Really I'm just asking that they be given a tweak to put them back into consideration, and let DA do what it says it does.

And frankly, I wouldn't want to tank with the 50 IO build either 🙂

Jumping back in with a comparative exercise. May or may not be relevant, but eh, I've got some time. First up is a basic-IO (at L50 mind you) Dark Armour / Psionic Melee tanker (so no endredux from the secondary). It uses exactly ZERO specials or uniques. This represents performance above the "balanced around SOs" baseline that gets thrown around, but far below an IO'd-to-the-gills approach. 10 Toggles: Death Shroud, Dark Embrace, Obsidian Shield, Murky Cloud, Cloak of Darkness, Combat Jumping, Tough, Acrobatics, Weave, Maneuvers. (Notably, NOT using Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom.) 3 Passives: Health, Stamina, Physical Perfection. Data chunk: By way of comparison, here's what the same basic loadout looks like with Ice Armour, since that set was brought up earlier. 9 Toggles: Frozen Armour, Wet Ice, Chilling Embrace, Icicles, Combat Jumping, Glacial Armour, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers. 4 Passives: Health, Stamina, Permafrost, Physical Perfection. Data chunk: Very similar in terms of end consumption. BUT: The Dark build ignores two of the (arguably) more flavourful powers in its primary, while Ice takes all its toggles. Despite that, Ice still has one less toggle, AND an end recovery power in Energy Absorption which, as slotted in this build (2 rech, 1 endmod, 3 def) is up in a little over 32 seconds, and returns a touch over 21% end per enemy hit (plus its def buff). Looking at the defensive side of things: Dark is running with respectably middling defense (but no DDR), and mediocre dropping to low-end resists. Dark's heal, Dark Regeneration, (slotted 1 acc, 2 end, 2 rech, 1 heal) is up in a bit over 16 seconds, heals almost 43% per target hit, and clocks in at over 18 end per use. Ice really only has the Fire and Psi res holes to deal with, as its 4 relevant typed defenses are solid (and further buffed by its end recovery power). Ice gets Hoarfrost, a +HP/heal power (slotted 3 rech, 3 heal) which is up every 180 seconds, provides almost +60% HP for 120 seconds, and a heal for almost 80%, with a cost of ~14.5 end per use. For giggles, here's the same setup for another resist set, Electric Armour. Getting closer to apples to apples. 8 Toggles: Charged Armour, Lightning Field, Static Shield, Conductive Shield, Combat Jumping, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers. 5 Passives: Health, Stamina, Grounded, Lightning Reflexes, Physical Perfection. Data chunk: Now we're seeing something. End drain is notably lower (as would be expected from 8 toggles vs the 10 in the DA build). BUT: The Dark build continues to ignore two of the (arguably) more flavourful powers in its primary, while Elec takes all its toggles. Despite that, Elec still has two fewer toggles, AND an end recovery power in Power Sink which, as slotted in this build (3 rech, 2 endmod) is up in a little over 27 seconds, and returns a touch over 45% end per enemy hit, AND an endurance reduction+heal power in Energize which, as slotted in this build (3 rech, 1 heal) is up in just under 55 seconds, lasts for 30 seconds, and provides almost 60% endurance reduction to all powers, plus other goodies spoken to below. (Notably, NOT clicked on for the screenie above.) Looking at the defensive side of things: Dark is running with respectably middling defense (but no DDR), and mediocre trending down to low-end resists. Dark's heal, Dark Regeneration, (slotted 1 acc, 2 end, 2 rech, 1 heal) is up in a bit over 16 seconds, heals almost 43% per target hit, and clocks in at over 18 end per use. Elec has lower defense. but outside of Psi and Negative, better (but still arguably mediocre) resists. Importantly, however, it overcaps resists to the most common "exotic" damage type, Energy. Elec gets a heal out of its endurance redux power, Energize, which per the above slotting is still coming back in about 55 seconds, and provides a 35% heal and an extra 140% regen, at a cost of a bit over 10 endurance. So that's a lot of words and pictures and stuff hidden in spoiler tags. But what does it meeeeaaaan? Smarter people than me would prolly be able to tell you a lot. To me? It means that Dark Armour, at the cost of ignoring its two really unique powers, burns the same end as Ice and more than Elec, for overall lesser protection, no way to mitigate the drain, and no style points. Aaaand, GO!

Yup, that was one of the things I suggested in my too-long post, tho it might have been buried in there 🙂 Let Soul Transfer work as-is when you're dead, and like Dark Affinity (controller version) Soul Absorption when you're alive and kicking. Sure it comes late, but better than never, no? (My "CoH 2" suggestion would be swap this new ST with CoF, and truly buff CoF to be an amazeballs capstone - Terror with chance of Hold maybe? - but we're not in CoH 2 territory and I know better than to suggest a power reorg!)

I mained a Spines/Dark scrapper back on live from i3 to shutdown, and very recently started a reinvention here as a Dark/Savage tanker. I ran Crimson Shroud through incarnates back then, and pretty much everything the game offered at the time. I'll never claim to be a master of the set, but I'm not entirely talking out of my butt either. The endurance cost thing has been well covered, so let's tackle this from a little different direction. I'd say DA struggles with a bit of an identity issue which is compounded by 1/3 of the set being highly optional. That, and one of the big selling points in the description is entirely untrue. Let's look at the description: Tap into the powers of the Netherworld. OK, sure. I mean, the armour set explicitly states an origin of the powers, which of course can be handwaved. But still for some people, that's going to set up an expectation of everything from name to costume to RP. Strictly from a fluff perspective could that be looked into? Many Dark Armor powers drain your foes to strengthen you. Umm... no? This is where I think the set really falls down. Of the powers that affect foes, Death Shroud is a standard damage aura (drains enemy HP but doesn't strengthen me); Dark Regeneration actually works as advertised; Cloak of Fear, as mentioned, suffers on a number of axes and, again, doesn't actually strengthen me; Oppressive Gloom actively weakens me (at least via damage) to achieve its effect, which is the opposite of how "many" powers are stated to work; and finally Soul Transfer, again, works as advertised but I'd hardly call a self-rez "strengthening". One of the only defensive sets that offer some resistance to Psionic damage. This is no longer true. If you take "resistance" to mean more generically "you have some form of mitigation to" psionic damage, and strictly looking at the Tanker armour sets here, then we have: Bio with a small amount of +res and +def; Electric with a solid +res; Rad with a moderate +res; Stone with a beefy +def; Shield and SR with their positionals (yes I know most psi attacks lack a positional vector, but there are some); and WP with a moderate +res and a reasonable +def. That leaves only 3 of 11 sets which DON'T have any kind of psi protection (5 if you remove SR and Shield from the above). Either way that's more than half the sets offering psi protection. Despite DA's being head and shoulders the highest single value (base 50% on a tanker), it's no longer as unique as it was. I'd also argue that psionic is not the damage type to be most worried about. That distinction seems to be going in the direction of energy, and, well... Its resistance to Energy is weak. Yeah. This right here. Energy damage mobs are encountered far more often than psionic ones. If my armour set is the best against a minor percentage of enemies, but the worst against a major percentage, I'm gonna have a bad time. It offers no protection to Knockback. It's an annoyance, which can be mitigated easily by IOs, or more conventionally by going deep into the Leaping power pool for Acrobatics. Sucks that the latter option kinda pigeonholes us into a travel power, but Stone has it much worse so I can let this slide. So. What do? Personally I think any changes should revolve around making point 2 more correct. If I'm reading my set description and it tells me that a lot of my powers have a -enemy/+me effect, then actually make a lot of my powers do that! These are totally off the cuff and prolly unbalanced suggestions, but I'd tackle the powers that affect foes and: Death Shroud - Nothing fancy, just add a -tohit effect here. Negative energy damage tends to have this baked into it, I'd simply port that here. Dark Regeneration - Not gonna touch it. I've read a few comments to the effect that DR is the cornerstone of the set (e.g. "if they can't kill you before DR recharges, they can't kill you"), so I don't see a reason to mess with it. Cloak of Fear - I'm "wrapped in nightmares" and treating my foes to "visions most horrific". Let's buff CoF by borrowing the stats from Nature Affinity's Entangling Aura (while keeping it a Terrorize). EA has a slightly higher endurance cost, but a much better accuracy, larger radius, and chances to proc magnitude up to affecting bosses. I'd love to see some -def get thrown in there, or an equivalent self +tohit, to reflect that cowering people generally are gonna be easier to thwack (and while we're at it I want a pony). Oh, the existing -tohit doesn't go anywhere. Oppressive Gloom - I'd love to see an increased mag on this, or at least a chance for it (similar to the CoF change above). Minions are the least of anyone's worries, and having them disoriented for the 1.3 seconds they're alive is practically worthless. To address the "strengthen you" part of the point, and make this power more of a consideration, I'd also complement the existing -HP with a new +Recovery element. Soul Transfer - Suggesting a (relatively) simple change, which is surely not original to my brain: allow it to be used as a +HP/heal/rcv when alive (in the same vein as Second Wind from the Sentinel version of Regen, or on a more thematically appropriate tack, Soul Absorption in Controller Dark Affinity). Bonus track! Energy weakness - I'm honestly not sure how to handle this, as I completely agree with the notion that every set should be weak to something. However, with Energy damage being so omnipresent, I'd certainly not turn my nose up at a small buff to base stats just to make this one slightly less impactful over a large amount of content. That went on a lot longer than planned. I love me some Dark Armour but find it does not compete well with a lot of what's out there right now.

My other "post-shutdown" hero. A re-imagining of my old main into a Dark/Savage tanker. He took a long time to consider making, and more than a few AT and power iterations. TBH I'm still not convinced this should be his final "push-to-50" incarnation, but we'll see how that goes.

So I posted the pic in the costumes thread, but I figured, since we're hitting the anniversary of the game's restoration, that I'd share this bio too. One of only a couple characters I have whose history specifically references the shutdown.

My Fire/Ice tanker, Cryoforge. A lab accident turned him into living plasma, contained in human form by an experimental cooling mechanism. Fun fact: this is my first HC costume that got an in-game compliment. What was it, you may wonder? "Nice ass!"

Now that's a slick look. Dang wish I'd taken more time browsing the gloves section!

Adding to the recent trend of international heroes, I thought I'd post my Norwegian heroine, Vinterhage!

I really like this one. And so nice to see more Canadian heroes represented! 🙂

Thanks, that's helpful and encouraging! Sounds like the plan, short term, is Energize at 28, two slots in it at 29 (so three total - all recharge at this point?) and then smash as fast as possible to 36 for slotted Energy Drain, then revise.

Looks neat! I've got a TW/EA gathering dust in the 20's, mostly because of how hard he sucks wind right now. I'll have to roll him out and make a push for Energy Drain it seems. Did you run Defensive Sweep at all during leveling, or did you go with this power and slot level progression right from the start?

I'd agree with Caulderone. Having a nuke up often is awesome. My Water/Regen has his nuke slotted with full Sentinel's Ward, and it's up roughly every 36 seconds. For my playstyle that's acceptable. I didn't build for Hasten, so your build including a purple set prolly sees a quicker recharge on your nuke. I have KO Blow fully procced out (I'm using FF, Neuronic, Ghost Widow, Touch of Death, Glad Strike & Glad Net) and that thing hits like a truck. (I'm also using a full procced Arctic Breath which is also quite wonderful - Posi, Jav Volley, Annihilation, Lady Grey, Impeded Swiftness & Shield Breaker - and considering duplicating that, minus ImpSwift, in Steam Spray too.)

OK. so the numbers were a little lower than I ballparked (I didn't have updated Mids before, now I do), but still managed to build what should be, for my general purposes, a perfectly serviceable and beefy Beam/EA beater. This is with no purples or winters, minimal PVPs, non-superior ATOs, and no Incarnates chosen. Could easily be tuned to much higher performance I expect, if one had the inclination and resources. (one buggy note: recharge is displaying 5% higher than actual as it's calculating all six 5% +rech bonii in there - bugged it on the MRBU thread) (also a whoops: had Aim with Gaussian's proc active - that +tohit is a filthy lie 🙂 )

Bug report: built a char with 5x Bombardment (6-slot) and 1x Doctored Wounds (5-slot). At those slotting levels, they each provide a 5% recharge bonus. This should cap at 5 sets' worth of the bonus, but all 6 sets are included in the calculation (so total +rech is displaying 5% higher than actual).

Did a little bit of noodling in Mids late last night. Without Incarnates, and using 5x (6)Bombardment (along with 3x (5)Gift of the Ancients), I got an /EA to capped S/L/E/F/C def (N was about 6% short, and S/L didn't cap til way late), along with ~60% S/L res and closer to 70% E/N res. Also built /Dark with higher resists, and defenses in the mid- to high-20s. Running fewer sets would certainly allow a little more flexibility in bringing up other aspects of the build, because in both cases some of my other powers were underslotted. Strictly based on those two, I like the idea of padding /EA. (I might also look at ways to buff my existing /Regen guy.) Yeah, I used an imprecise term there. Appreciate you pointing it out. FWIW, I prolly should be less concerned about this - I don't go chasing 4/8 solos, Master runs, etc. Honestly I really need to let this idea go 🙂

So I went ahead and picked up several copies of the new Bombardment TAoE set when it went live, and had the thought that Sentinel is probably the AT best suited to take advantage of its complete suite of bonii. For reference: 2 = 5% range 3 = 2.25 S/L res (and mezres) 4 = 7% accuracy 5 = 5% recharge 6 = 4.5% E/N res (and mezres) There are a significant number of primary+epic combinations that allow us to use the full 5 sets of Bombardment (which for this thought exercise, we want to do). What I'm curious about, and having builder issues determining, is what secondary most benefits from the 3- and 6-slot resistances. With five sets in place that's an extra 11.25% S/L res, and a whopping 22.5% E/N res. On the resist set side, /Elec and /Rad likely overkill the big bonus, which kinda defeats the purpose here. /Dark and /Fire could sure make use of it, but I'm not sure how viable they are in a general sense. Or would one of the defense/hybrid sets be a better choice, for padding the resistance layers? What do wiser minds say?

I'm in the same boat as @carpenlov - trying to reimagine my old main (was a Spines/Dark scrapper), keeping the dark half of it and spinning up as a tanker. I've got him into the mid-30's paired with Savage, and I'm struggling to feel the love with it. Dunno why but Savage just doesn't feel strong enough. Trying to decide if I push through and hope Savage Leap makes it better, or if I re-roll with a different secondary. Ugh,

I just came here looking for the same thing. Didn't find any either. Was looking to get insights on a port of my SD/Elec tanker to a brute build to see what it would look like (freaking love the tanker). The answer, I think, is the brute looks pretty good too. It's not even close to purpled out, but still hits positional softcaps and looks like decent resists too. Biggest "issues" would be generally low recharge, and no epic attacks. Maybe you'll find some inspiration here, or possibly this will spark some more build discussion. Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Misadventure-B: Level 50 Natural Brute Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Concealment Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Charged Brawl -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(5), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mk'Bit-Dam%(39) Level 1: Deflection -- Ksm-Def/EndRdx(A), Ksm-Def/Rchg(7), Ksm-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46), ResDam-I(46) Level 2: Havoc Punch -- BlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), BlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), BlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(29), BlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(39) Level 4: Battle Agility -- Rct-Def/EndRdx(A), Rct-Def(7), Rct-Def/Rchg(15), Rct-ResDam%(17), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(42) Level 6: True Grit -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(21), UnbGrd-Max HP%(40), UnbGrd-ResDam(46), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(50) Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Rchg(9), Erd-Dmg/Rchg(9), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Erd-%Dam(39) Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11) Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(43) Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A) Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 18: Chain Induction -- BrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), BrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(19), BrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), BrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), BrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), BrtFur-Rchg/Fury(40) Level 20: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(43) Level 22: Tough -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RctArm-ResDam(23), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctArm-EndRdx(40) Level 24: Weave -- GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), GifoftheA-Def(25), GifoftheA-Def/Rchg(27), GifoftheA-Run+(42) Level 26: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit(50), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50) Level 28: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 30: Maneuvers -- GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), GifoftheA-Def(31), GifoftheA-Def/Rchg(31), GifoftheA-Run+(43) Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Erd-%Dam(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(33), Obl-%Dam(33), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(33), PrfZng-Dam%(34), Obl-Dmg(34) Level 35: Shield Charge -- UnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), UnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(36), UnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), UnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), UnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), UnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(37) Level 38: Superior Conditioning -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 41: Physical Perfection -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A) Level 44: One with the Shield -- Prv-Absorb%(A) Level 47: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A) Level 49: Grant Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Fury Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(45) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(45), EndMod-I(45) Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1498;704;1408;HEX;| |78DA6594594F135114C7EFB453BAD25201D94A69594B814AD57712A418951A1213E| |39A66A49776745248A710894FBEBA26BEF8055C5FFC007E0477FD162E055C12838A| |F5CCFC4FA9499B36BFB9FF73CF3DFF7BEE9D66AFCE059E1DBD3E2314FF114333CDD| |C6C79AD22DD27B5CA5A59339C4288605637B5FCBA2C9122A766DD2445EC49B9AC34| |A44C650CB95429EB4B9A018183737259964C993A55D4A591AF0F45607165C5482D4| |86D552F155AEDC1BC5E28566814AA87F2B26C16F5D5B03D3E565AD74DFD926EE895| 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Slightly different, a Dark/Savage tanker. Stacking fears and stuns, slow bleed dots help maintain aggro, and let's face it Savage just looks terrifying 🙂

Is this less-than-expected PPM behaviour likely to be the same when slotting into click powers, or is it more likely an autopower thing? I'm building a Shield/Elec Tank with the intent to eventually have 5 sets of PT slotted (Charged Brawl, Havoc Punch, Chain Induction, Electrifying Fences and Ball Lightning) to cover the self-heal gap somewhat, but if I'm not going to see independent proc checks on all of those powers I may have to rethink.

Whipped up this simple one the other day - say hi to Beaufort! She has two versions - an Ice/Storm Corruptor (redside), and a Storm/Water Defender (blueside). Exact same look, semi-parallel bios.