Player2

Exactly. It's just a descriptive word that you and Biostem are asking to have it justify the inner workings of the powerset. Just stop. I get it, you don't want it and you'll ignore whatever explanations you need and insist whatever nonsense you want to justify that no one else should have it. You've made it very clear that you have nothing useful to contribute to the discussion, and once again I've wasted my time by stopping the nonsense rebuttals and trying to have a discussion with you despite knowing that you are inherently wrong and nothing you have to say is worth hearing or reading.

Nothing you feel is needed is wanted by me, therefore no one can have it.

Why does it have to be elemental? Maybe it could be a combination of a base of Energy damage with toggles like Dual Pistols that let you switch to Dark, Psi, and Lethal with additional effects based on which toggle you use.

How does Beam Rifle translate into the game? What makes that set "Beam" but not Energy Blast? Some of the Fire Blast attacks look like beams to me... Radiation Blasts, too. Even Dark Blast has some dark beams. What did we need a Beam Rifle for? And what about the name Beam Rifle informs the player of its damage type or effects? How does "beam" or "rifle" or the combination of the words tell us about the disintegration effects? How does "Beam Rifle" do anything but let people know they'll have an Energy Blast that isn't the Energy Blast powerset?

If YOU choose to conflate the two, I suspect it's more about D&D with it's distinctions between Arcane and Divine magic distinctions, but even if it is used in comic books with regard to magic, that is perfectly acceptable. The two are not mutually exclusive but are also not synonyms. And if anyone is being pedantic, I think it's you for trying to insist that your incorrect perception of a word must define it and a powerset proposal that it's attached to. Incorrect. The the issue at hand is the hypocrisy of the Beam Rifle powerset. Lets ignore both Origin and that we actually have Beam Rifle for a moment. Someone wants a beam weapon and petitions for it. Why? Can't what you want be accomplished with Energy Blast? I mean, that's what it is... energy blast but coming out of a rifle, right? No. Beam Rifle is Energy Blast but also has some different mechanics that set it apart from Energy Blast. Okay, but why did it have to come from a gun? Why not just re-use Energy and/or other blast set animations? Because people wanted it to stand apart from Energy Blast... something that COULD, but doesn't necessarily have to, give people an option to wield a tech oriented weapon for a different look and feel from other powersets. And some people want a more magical themed blast set. But that's too far, because if there's ANY implication of magic --even tangentially-- then the origin must be shoved down peoples' throats. No. YOU are perceiving it a certain way and rejecting the notion outright because YOU can't separate the Magic origin from a word that has admittedly been associated with it in other mediums before. But that association isn't a definition, it's just you being narrowminded about it. When this topic comes up, I try to steer it because of people like you trying to pigeonhole it... yeah, it can be magic but it can also not be magic. Let's NOT call it magic, and let's offer animations and effects that will work for both people that want magic but also people that do not. And any effort I make to suggest ways that such a set could appeal to the non-magic-wanting crowd are either ignored or dismissed. So let me spell this out for you: NEW POWER SET. SIMILAR TO STUFF WE HAVE, BUT DIFFERENT MECHANICS AND APPEARANCE. Why not just use the existing stuff we have and play make believe to appease your lack of ability to make distinctions between words? DIFFERENT MECHANICS AND APPEARANCE. What makes Beam Rifle special? Why did we need another Energy Blast set but with a gun? Why did we need Dual Pistols, another Lethal Damage gun blast set when we already had Assault Rifle? If your answer is to have the damage type, then I say those powersets were a blatant waste of time and resources. If it's about the mechanics of the powersets or the desire to have different animations/appearance... then how is that different from people wanting a new powerset that may have similar powers but with different effects? And why do you feel the need to have it justified by explaining what Arcane means? Again, you seem like you are arguing just to argue and have no real point beyond "I don't like it because it doesn't suit my worldview so I don't want it and that means no one else should have it either." And that is weaker than any other nonsense arguments that may have been made. YOU are trying to make it a question of what the value of a word is to justify shooting down the idea. I'm done explaining to you because no amount of explanation would satisfy you. You've made that clear when you stated that it would be like having the Magic origin shoved down your throat. So go ahead and be wrong like Rudra and PeregrineFalcon. I'm not going to keep trying to justify something to meet your satisfaction because you are questioning it from a place of being blatantly and wholly wrong. Go away, Rudra. Nothing you have to say is worth reading. You contribute nothing useful to the discussion; you just want to dismiss it because you don't like/want it, so I've no interest in trying to justify the definition of a word I've already explained away. You argue just to argue because you don't want anyone else to have something you don't want. It's like telling someone they can't have a glass of water because you're not thirsty.

Just in case you're still feeling like an origin is being shoved down your throat... https://www.dictionary.com/browse/arcane https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/arcane https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/arcane https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arcane Or... if you still can't separate and don't like a magical themed power set... Then don't play it. Even if they make such a powerset, no one would force you to use it.

I'm absolutely capable of separating origin and powers, but if I've made any statements in this thread that make it seem otherwise... blmae Rudra. Anyway, "Arcane" is just a descriptive name. And while some may want to conflate or associate it with magic, it does not inherently mean magic. The definition of Arcane is "known or knowable only to a few people" and/or "secret. arcane rites. an arcane ritual. broadly : mysterious, obscure." Definitions which absolutely could apply to spellcaster abilities, but it's also just as applicable to a completely non-magical secret handshake. An Arcane themed powerset which is intended to cater to those looking for magical-themed abilities can look to this, but the fact that it isn't specifically "MAGIC" is implied by the term Arcane so anyone could use these mysterious abilities and explain them away as however they want. And Arcane powers are only "blatantly magical" if you conflate Magic origin with all things that are considered secret rites or otherwise mysterious/obscure powers. But if you can say that a gun isn't inherently technological, then why can't we also assume that Arcane powers aren't inherently magical? Maybe a player wants to play them as psionic in nature... or wields tech-armor that channels forces in a way that looks somewhat magical but isn't? What if the arcane rites are just a science that people aren't familiar with like some kind of ancient alchemy? I feel like you're arguing just to argue.

Just pass on the missions with Family. Let them commit their organized crime... it's someone else's problem now.

Yeah, and if they left Classic as the standard and offered the new camera controls as an option, then you and anyone else could do the same to set the new features as your default. I am just a hair away from saying that I'd rather they make no changes than to make changes the new default. No matter how intuitive they might seem or how much some people might like them... those are the minority when first introduced. If over time the new way proves to be more popular, then maybe make it the default. But changing things up like that just to show off the new features makes me not appreciate them at all and wish they'd not changed anything.

Ice damage is cold... cold traditionally slows people. Fire does not traditionally slow people... it makes them move faster to get the hell away from it burning them.

I've been on 2-star ITF pugs that went fine. 3-star starts to push the limits, though.

Personally, I dislike having to switch back to the classic mode. I don't mind them adding new features to the game, but setting them as the default for new characters going forward is annoying as hell.

No. The Egg Hunter badge room in Faultline is the best area in the game.

Stats are pointless. Just play the game and enjoy it. Don't worry about how many people play what archtypes or powersets or whatever. Do your own thing.

The point of my commentary is always that origin is meaningless BECAUSE any origin can be applied to any powerset. But sometimes the argument against a magical themed powerset comes up that it MUST be Magic origin and that's too specific to be useful... even if you reasonably offer alternatives like alternate animations with and without the spellcasting animations/effects, even if you replace Magic with the not-necessarily-magical alternative of Arcane, some yahoo will insist that it is too specific of one origin. Even if you explain multiple ways that other origins could be applied to an Arcane-themed powerset, like a Mutatation that can innately control magical effects... even if you offer a published example of a character that uses Technology to simulate the appearance of magic use... some narrowminded people will still say that this is too specific to one origin. Even if you point out how blatantly technological powersets like Beam Rifle could absolutely be played as a magical weapon and ask so why can't something look like it's magical but be Technology or Science... Well, you should get the idea. My point is that no matter how many explanations and arguments are made, some people just disagree outright and shoot down every explanation because it doesn't mesh with their personal idea of what should be, and will show up in such a discussion with forum-stalkery efficiency to shoot down any discussion. So if any of my explanations in this thread seem like they're counter-intuitive to what I've stated in the past... blame Rudra.

The commentary about the guns was to point out the hypocrisy. We had a lethal damage powerset with Assault Rifle. We didn't NEED another with Dual Pistols except back in the day people were begging the old devs for a pistol melee set because they wanted gun fu like in that Gun Kata movie. They didn't give people what they asked for, exactly... but they did give the dual pistols and some of the crazy off the wall animations to make those people feel better about not getting gun melee like the flavor-of-the-month movie. We didn't NEED Beam Rifle, either. It's just Energy Blast from a gun. Well, no it's not... but it could have been. And if we didn't have it today but people were asking for an energy gun powerset, the logic would be "just play Energy Blast; you don't need it to come from a gun. It can be technology like Iron Man's energy beam gauntlets if you take the right Gloves costume option or you could just pretend you have a gun." But we got Beam Rifle and it was welcomed by many who enjoy it. Just because some people don't want something doesn't mean that it couldn't have potential as an idea, but to outright dismiss the idea --especially any and every time it comes up-- because it rubs you the wrong way or whatever is pretty damned selfish. "I don't like it, so I don't want anyone to have it. Screw you all, I'm going home." So that's what the weapon customization argument was referencing. But, honestly, you didn't deserve that explanation because I'm sick of trying to use logical and reasoned arguments and then having things summed up as "I want it isn't a strong argument." I said earlier in this post that I will never not support this idea because I think it has merit. But there are the yahoos that will shoot it down every time simply because someone else wants it. You know what? "I don't want it" isn't a very strong argument either. Neither is offering suggestions like using Runes combat aura on whatever other powersets and calling it magic. Yeah, we get it... everything can be magic. That explanation is as weak as you think "I want it" is, so either do better or keep it to yourself.

Nothing? I've addressed this topic on more than one occasion, but the problem is it always degrades into either "this can be solved by giving alternate animations to other powersets" or "I reject magical themed power set because it pigeonholes players into taking the Magic origin" or some other nonsense. I've suggested that mechanically a magical set should be more flexible than a single damage type like what you would get with Magic origin Fire Blast or Magic Origin Dark Blast or Magic Origin Energy Blast. Ideally it should be a new powerset that will admittedly share characteristics with existing powersets... as others that were added later also did (looking at Dual Pistols and Beam Rifle), but that while existing single type power sets could be considered specialist magic focused on one (or two with secondary powerset) kinds of magic, an Arcane themed powerset should be more flexible, either offering different kinds of damage & effects out of the box (like Assault Rifle with it's lethal and fire damage) with each attack or perhaps use something like the Swap Ammo power of Dual Pistols to offer varying damage types and effects. While other powersets would be dedicated specialists, this would be more akin to the flexibility of general magical practitioners who manifest a wider variety of spell type effects. The multiple modes power effect has been used a few times in Dual Pistols, Staff Fighting, and Bio Armor, so it's not introducing a new mechanic to the game code, but how you assign the the effects could make it unique to a new, different power set. I've also addressed the issue of pigeonholing with the Magic origin for a "spellcasting" powerset. First off, start with two the spellcaster theme animations and effects, this lets people who want a dedicated magical flavor spellcaster type character to realize that potential way more than adding the Runes combat aura to one or both hands. But also offer alternate animations with more generic effects for people that might be interested in the powers but not the "magic" theme. And Origin is meaningless. Just like people taking the Magic origin for their gun character and stating that their character has a magical weapon or whatever... you could absolutely apply the origins other than Magic to an Arcane powerset. I've offered possible explanations for how each could be interpreted, but the arguments often come back to "it's magic so it must be tied to Magic origin and I reject blah blah blah." Simple solution is to not call the powerset Magic Blast and refer to it as Arcane Blast (or Support or Control or whatever magical variant set is being pitched at the moment) because Arcane might sound magical and give a magical vibe, but it does not explicitly mean magic. It leaves it open to individual player interpretation like everything else. And if I come off as dismissive of some people's outright rejection, it's because no matter how much I present logical and/or well-thought out explanations for why I think it's a good idea, I get bullshit nonsense and dismissive attitudes because at the core, some people just don't want a magic-themed powerset. And if that's the kind of reaction I get for trying to present good arguments, then I will absolutely be outright dismissive of such people's rejection and will present my own nonsensical arguments against their rejections. Why should I bother reiterating well stated arguments only to have them dismissed because "But I don't want it so I will always against it every time the topic comes up"? I'd rather just mock their derision with ill-conceived ideas like shoulder wands costume pieces because stating any of what I've done before means nothing, so if I can't have what I and others want then at least I can have fun being dismissive of their lame arguments against it. Also, Rudra and PeregrineFalcon are wrong about everything in every post they make and they should both be ignored. Any commentary or negative reactions from them should be summarily dismissed as worthless... even when I happen to be in agreement with either on a given topic. Agreeing with Rudra or PeregrineFalcon on anything makes me wrong, too.

The idea of an Arcane themed blast set has come up more than once before. There are always arguments for and against, but even when pointed out that "Arcane" only implies magic but doesn't have to be restricted to Magic origin use, there will always be people that rail against it simply on some wrong-headed principle and no amount of reasonable discussion will persuade them, nor will they simply pass such a topic by without voicing their opinion on why it's a bad idea. So don't get hung up on terms... it's not you, it's them.

I've tried engaging in reasonable conversation with you in the past, but it always resorts to you just being outright wrong and unable to have any sort of conversation that doesn't end with your opinion is the only one that matters. So.... nah, I'll just continue to point out how you're wrong whenever you choose to engage with me and I feel like it.

Also... SHOULDER WANDS!! BWAAA-HAHAHA!!! Also no.

Why stop there? Why not wand Heads? Since we can have headless characters, just put a wand there instead of a rubber ducky. Hey, why not Wand boots instead of peg legs for those magical martial artists? I know... a wand chest detail, too! Why not? Because you suggested it and that makes it all inherently wrong.

I can choose to be wrong occasionally to support something that I might agree with.

Again? What part of "always" did you misunderstand?

No you don't... because you say so and you are always wrong.

Exactly. Putting together one powerset would be easier than trying to make all the others look magical but distinct. But since you don't actually care, you're happy to sign on for the lamest of "solutions" that won't actually satisfy the people who want a more magical vibe. Why even bother suggesting it??