Force Redux

Wolves are fast. Far cry from the zombies. Sometimes too fast, Make sure to keep them on Defensive if you aren't sure about aggroing nearby groups. When they get /kin buffs, they are capable of breaking the sound barrier 😛

Hmm guess I'll play around with Proton Haze and see if it's worth slotting for +recharge proc... Though with Rad's quick chain and Chrono Shift, probably not needed. Thank you.

I realize Sir Myshkin has a Time/Rad build around somewhere, and I was reviewing Hjarki's thoughts on the same in the Proc Monster thread, but was hoping for some reassurance/extra feedback.

I don't see much about this combo here or on Reddit. Was wondering about your thoughts? Blast sets are not my overall expertise, outside of Sonic and DP on defenders, and Electric, Dark, Water on Sentinels, which are also their own thing. Any insights or thoughts are appreciated. Mostly a teaming build, but with all the Timey goodness at defender levels, I'm assuming I can avoid set bonuses on Rad Blast and go for proc goodness I've seen in the proc monster thread? I'm okay with moderate damage, this doesn't necessarily have to solo pylons or ITFs, but I don't want to feel anemic either. It looks like Radiation Blast is good at close range with two PBAOEs, along with Time's Juncture. I've never really played Rad Blast however, in practical play are Irradiate and Atomic Blast with getting/perform well? It looks like Neutron Bolt and X-ray Beam can form a complete attach chain... but lacks a heavy hitter until Cosmic Burst... What's the end game attack chain? Thoughts on Proton Volley as a snipe? I have a snipe on my a stalker, but don't ever recall having a snipe on my other defenders... Not sure of it's value? Are there any powers you consider skippable at all? Thank you! 🙂

As someone who often plays bubblers, and other support types, I'm of the same mind. I announce "hug me for buffs" once at the mission start (I have a simple macro), and then I just buff the murder ball periodically. Seems to work. As you said, those who wander off either don't need them, or will quickly learn they do, and stick closer. Some support sets make this easier than others. If I put Life Giving Spores on the ground, people tend to gravitate towards the SFX, and then I can hit them with Overgrowth and stuff more easily. Visual cues are helpful. Back at Issue 1 on my Dark/Dark defender the graphics were often too subtle, and no one knew where the anchor for Darkest Night was, stayed in range of Shadowfall, etc. At least bubbles were simple to understand for those who don't read chat. 😀

Fantastic, I'm going to review.

Understood, and thank you for making this distinction clear 🙂

Sorry, no time to give a specific build, but I will say go /Cold. A much as I love FF, Cold will give you more. Resists from Arctic Fog (and some Defense) to stack with Demon resists. Defense shields, of course. Great debuffs like Heat Loss. Infrigerate can turn into a proc damage power. Sleet, offers mitigation. Snow Storm can be skipped, but I like it. Frostwork can help keep Demon Prince and the Gargoyles on their feet and prevent one shots. You'll miss out on FF's status protection, but as @Dixa has mentioned in this forum, you can buy it on P2Win vendor (this can get expensive for many folks), or grab it with incarnate Destiny Clarion or carry break frees. Plus cold goes thematically with them too. Enjoy your demons!

Thanks Doc!

Quick question for the plant gurus - does Carrion Creepers require any accuracy? I see builds that do not have it, just procs, and I see some builds go with Targeted AOE sets that do have accuracy in the bonuses. THe power says it is 1.0 Accuracy, and it does slot Accuracy enhancements, but its one of those weird powers, so I'm not sure what is required. Any suggestions? I have it six-slotted at present with basic IOs, but looking to use sets/procs on it. Thanks !

I have a T3 incarnate Grav/Dark. Amazing. There is literally nothing I can't throw at this character and not be able to tackle it.

I'd suggest Trick Arrow. Which is normally a very suboptimal choice... Except for Illusion I had an incarnated Ill/TA on Live. Worked very nicely. PA is invulnerable so you don't have to worry about tools to keep them alive. PA taunts and Superior Invisibility reduces your aggro, so you can keep out of the action and not worry too much about your own survival. TA likes to play at range. Mostly so does Illusion. TA offers more control that Illusion lacks. Holds. Immobs. Slow. AoE damage. TA is proc friendly for even more damage. TA offers debuffs that help PA do better, too. Illusion loves recharge. So does TA. Build priorities are the same. IMO this is the only combo in the entire game where TA shines and shows none of it's glaring weaknesses. Give it a try! I think you'll love it. Teams will love you too, and it's a hot soloer, too.

Sounds like you really tried to make that work! I've only ever enjoyed TA in my Illusion controller, where it seemed to work well enough... Mostly because is Illusion's strengths. On a MM...😕😕

Would there be any interest in my writing up a more polished summary of the MM primaries with incorporated comments from you folks?

These all sound very reasonable.

Fair enough, it's a valid point as well 🙂

Very respectfully, the statement(s) you are responding to are misleading. There are probably a handful of maps, such as parts of Lambda trial, that are a bit unsuited for dragging pets around. But overall you can and will have fun and be useful on story missions, radios, TFs and Trials. If you love MMs stick with it.

Excellent post @Redlynne! Small correction, Dark Miasma's heal is centered on the caster, so it is easy to position to heal your pets (particularly with the new and improved AI). I still prefer /Dark with tougher pets than Ninjas, however. Will second the choice for /Time as the secondary of choice for Ninjas. It offers everything you need. But its so awesome that is the case for any Primary you pair it with.

Not a fan of /Sonic, but that said almost any MM pairing is serviceable. From a design perspective I like to see resist sets paired with an AoE heal, as damage WILL come in and spot healing with Aid Other is not going to cut it when the AoEs rain in. Defense sets typically can block almost all damage and can resort to spot healing as needed with Aid Other. Time breaks the bank here by offering both -ToHit, Defense (boostable with Power Boost if you like), AND AoE healing. For pet survival this is a huge advantage. Sonic falls behind Thermal and Pain as a resistance set because of its lack of a heal. I don't feel the status protection is a good exchange, either. It's nice, but managing pet health is your first priority for survival. That said, plenty of folks run and enjoy Sonic, so you're mileage may vary!

Here's my 0.2 INF based on my experiences with MMs, from their inception until now. Primaries: Robotics - tanky, most damage tied up in Assault Bot, blooms late, has good AoE, but low DPS. This is countered by regen debuffs in Assault Bot's plasma attacks, which is helpful with AVs, but not so much with clearing weaker mobs. Needs ways to mitigate knockback from AssBot's attacks, either with procs or things like Electric Fences. This is a ranged pet set, so with new pet AI they just sit and light up things from a distance. Works best with Secondaries that buff defense, although a solid resistance set will also perform well. It is still a top performer, overall, coming in just after Thugs and Demons. KEY WORDS: TANKY, AOE, CLANKY. Robotics Secondary Pairings: Recommend with Force Field, Cold, Time, Nature, Electrical Affinity or Dark. Thugs - top performer (tied with Demons) - also tanky due to Enforcer buffs, but these do not affect the MM (unlike Bots, which will buff the MM). High damage, both ST and AoE (much of the AoE is tied to Arsonist, so you have to keep him alive -easier with the improved pet AI. The damage is more spread out between all the pets, so easier to level up than Bots. Can take more procs in the Enforcers than some sets (-resist, damage procs). Bruiser gets fury as a mini-brute. Arsonist is a mini-Corruptor with scourge. Brute is melee, rest are ranged. Again, new pet AI makes this much more manageable as Brute doesn't wander off too far. Works best IMO with sets that boost defense, but again, they are so good they benefit from almost anything. Comes with Gang War, which is an excellent power as well as a MM proc mule. KEY WORDS: DAMAGE, AOE, COOL Thugs Secondary Pairings: Recommend with Time, Dark, Thermal, Pain or Cold. Demons - the other top performer - more resistance based defenses (some of which benefit the MM and team mates), a little bit of self-healing, and lots of -damageresistance to amp up damage. Mixed variety of damage types (fire, cold, toxic) but also makes them a bit tough to proc out their attacks. Like Thugs, damage is spread out a bit among the pets, making leveling easier. Demon Prince also has some decent controls, particularly his hold which he spams a lot. Mostly ranged, and they benefit from the improved pet AI. Demons are so good they just pair well with almost anything (except Trick Arrow...but then again... does anything?). Has Hell on Earth, which is not as good as Gang War, but is still serviceable and also a proc mule. KEY WORDS: DAMAGE, TOUGH, NOISY Demons Secondary Pairings: Recommend with Dark, Time, Cold, Thermal, Pain or Nature. Necromancy - an old, but still true set that allows you to blend damage with control. Lower on the damage scale, and more single target, it offers more control via the Grave Knight's knock up sword attacks and the LIch, who is a mini Dark Miasma controller. They also toss out lots of -ToHit. They damage is concentrated in the Grave Knights, who are excellent and can take the same procs as Enforcers in Thugs (-resist, damage procs). They pets have always been pretty well behaved, and are immune to slows. The Lich tends to hang back while the other pets go forth into melee. Also has a proc mule in Soul Extraction, which is arguably the least powerful of the three proc mule powers (the others being Hell on Earth and Gang War). But it saves you slots on the pets. Lich can also take Clouded Senses damage proc, which works on all his attacks. Th,e pets lack Lethal resists, but have some exotic resists, and with pet IOs you can get them 35% lethal resist or more anyway. KEY WORDS: CONTROL, DEBUFFS, VOMIT Necromancy Secondary Pairings: Recommend with Dark, Time, Cold, Nature. Beasts - a newer set that is pure melee, all the time. There have been debates over the efficiency of their attack chain, but I played them all the way to T3 incarnate and found them no better or worse with their pauses in attacks than any other set. They are the ONLY set that can self-buff their Defense to soft-cap with Pack Mentality, allowing you to choose other secondarys that you might not consider due to attempts to keep them alive. They also have decent S/L/Cold resists. They also have about 11-12% base Defense. Damage is concentrated more into Dire Wolf, though not as lopsided as Robots; they are also more single target, with Dire Wolf having some AoE. They come with -movement speed debuff attacks that help keep things near them and other than Ninjas, are the fastest pets on the ground that I've used. Still, you might want to get an Epic or Seconary with some immobilization or control to help the pets keep things close by. Beasts are a bit more prone to Knockback recovery time, so Clarion Destiny or a secondary with KB protection (Electrical Affinity) is helpful, if not mandatory. The nice thing about Beasts is they are always where you expect them to be, since they are all melee. They do not have a proc mule power in Pack Mentality, but if you don't need it to get Defense up there, due to a secondary like Force Field, then you can leave it unused to build +damage and +Crit, which turns beasts into chainsaws. Single Target chainsaws. KEY WORDS: DAMAGE, TOUGH, HOWLING Beast Secondary Pairings: Recommend Kinetics, Time, Cold, Nature, Thermal, Pain, Electric. Ninjas - my experiences with these are back in Live, as I haven't touched them since Homecoming. They have super high single-target DPS, but almost no real defense, and no resistances. Oni is a poor man's fire corruptor, and does not live up to his peers the Demon Prince or Lich. But they are cool looking. You just have to find a way to keep them alive. They deal mostly Lethal, some Smashing, and some Fire damage. Ninjas do not have a proc mule, their special power is somewhat lacking, in that it is supposed to help set up for criticals but is not as good as it sounds in practice. Ninjas do not do well with resistance Secondarys, they really require something to avoid being hit AT ALL. KEY WORDS: DAMAGE, QUICK, FRAIL Ninjas Secondary Pairings: Recommend Force Fields, Time, Cold. Mercenaries - my first MM on Live, and it was ultimately a disappointment. They are equipped with lots of narrow cone attacks on long recharges, a suicidal medic, a terrible special power in Serum, and poor defense and resistances. While serviceable, they fall behind other sets that have a more cohesive design. While Ninjas just needs a touch up in Defense, Mercs need a complete overhaul. I would not recommend then for anything but concept. KEY WORDS: DAMAGE, WEAK, BULLET CASINGS Mercenaries Secondary Pairing: Recommend: Force Field, Time, Traps. Disclaimer: These are my opinions. YMMV. I personally don't care for Storm (too much chaos) or Radiation (slow to activate toggles, grab bag of non-thematic powers) , Traps (generally slow on teams), Poison (no self-heal, slow recharges, small AoE), Trick Arrow (great on Illusion controllers with invulnerable PA, not so good for MM henchmen), Empathy (too much healing, I think Pain works better for MM) and Sonic (no heal, suffers in comparison to Pain/Thermal as a resistance set, plus very long recharge on T9). That isn't to say these can't work, or be fun, but I find them to be less than optimal in order to generally make them a recommendation. But for every one of me, there's some guy or gal loving their Demons/Storm MM. That's how beautiful CoH is.

I don't have time to do a Mid's build. But I've been leveling my own Plant/Nature currently at 44th, and going strong. Plant generally plays at a distance with it's powers. Nature does have many powers that also work well at range (cone heal, spore cloud, etc) but its buffs are point blank, meaning the front line guys need you to come forward to get them. Also your toggle hold aura also may require you to get into the thick of things. Thus Nature may require you to skirmish a bit in the battlefield. That's not a bad thing, it does help keep me engaged. But it does add a bit of risk, especially at lower levels when your own personal defenses are meager. Thematically they are pleasing together. You bring lots of healing, some good debuffs, solid buffs (absorb and overgrowth in particular). Control is also good, decent AoE damage, a strong pet when solo (slot for -res and negative energy procs), and the nice openers of either seeds of confusion or carrion creepers. The pairing is strong, if not particularly synergistic, but you will never lack for some way to contribute on teams. Solo is decent. I just finished Mako's patron arc on +2/x3. Calistyx the Shaper gave me a bit more trouble than Mako, because Mako as an EB was easily neutered by immobilized. Not sure I'd try that arc yet with AVs as my ranged defense is still a bit low (21) and my single damage is not where I'd want it yet without more IO investment. Recharge is your friend. You want Creepers, Vines, and your three Nature buffs up often. So grab Hasten in your teens or twenties. I do recommend Entangling Aura. It's very helpful at locking down mobs and stacking hold magnitude.

But then we find out...it's not a mask! 🙃

Sounds like a fun time. Any way to merely observe in my PFF bubble? 😛😛

Very welcome. I had a really old build in Mid's and thus didn't post it. If you have any questions, just holler.

Here's a screenie of my power selectxion (Fitness and Flight pools are not shown, but they aren't particularly noteworthy). With Farsight up, I'm about 42% Ranged, which has been tough enough that I'm in no danger of dying on anything, from an AE farm to a TinPex (except the sewer portion). Its not perfect, there are areas for minor tweaks (such as Charged Armor, where I could change some IOs to get a bit better END REC for example, or move OF % KD to Gang War etc), but its proven to be a solid and favorite build/character.