Force Redux

Hi folks. I've got a 41 Water/Regen build for recharge and ranged Def. My powers cycle pretty quickly and I've realized I don't need all four AoE powers. Any thoughts on which one to drop? Water Burst Whirlpool Steam Jet Geyser is the nuke, so it remains.

My personal suggestion would be Ninja/Time (paging @Redlynne), but of the choices above I'd go Ninja/FF. Ninjas need defense, not resists, to stay alive. Pick up Medicine Pool for spot healing. EDIT: I realize the Redlynne is already in the house! 😀

Unlimited funds solve most everything in CoH 😀😀 I have a Bots/Cold. I think the other user may need to assess their slotting... I've got no endurance issues as a MM. On this or any MMs. And I have lots of mastermind of all flavors... All my MMs take and use at least one primary attack, plus Leadership, etc. Quick Solution for the budget minded, in case others are also wanting some Endo advice: Definitely 3-slot stamina with a Performance Shifter proc, and two End Mods (if you have the INF, one of these can also be Performance Shifter for a set bonus). This will cost about 2 to 4 million INF depending on the market. Buying on weekdays gets you lower prices. When you can: 3-slot health with Miracle proc, Numina proc and Panacea proc (this last is pricey, so feel free to put this off). Miracle should be your first purchase of the three. This is my standard go to for almost all my characters. Even with only some of these in place you will notice a difference. Don't forget to slot EndRed in your powers. Later, cold will also get you Heat Loss, a nice debuff that also buffs your recovery. Go Cold. It's a great secondary.

Beasts would go well with cold. They suggest have some defense to stack with Cold, as well as good resists. Plus it seems thematic. I've also heard folks report strong results with Necro or Thugs.

Just read this, all good advice for working around the issue with names. Typically the most frustrating part of character creation for me 🙃

I'd you aren't concerned with brute "tanking" or farming, go stalker. Spines has a nice ST and AoE variety for a stalker, though you will lose out on the two auras. But stalker critical of awesome with ATO IOs for big numbers. If you want the auras, go brute. That way you can farm on the toon should you wish to.

I do... Thanks JayboH. Lesson not to post too quickly. I'll edit.

This is a common complaint across all ATs due to incarnate powers, crashless nukes, etc.

With IO slotting you can add +35% to all resistances. Factor in Nature's resist buff and then absorb, plus Defense IOs, then the -ToHit from Spore Cloud... ... And more debuffs from pets... You're quite safe.

I mention this for most mastermind builds: Slot Overwhelming Force % for KD in your T1 pets. With every attack all three make there is a 20% to KD a foe. This will help prevent runners as well as disrupt their attach cycle. It's nice to watch a boss flop around. If you want even more control, you can go Heat Mastery and get Bonfire, slotted with Sudden Acceleration KB to KD. More flopping and some damage, too.

I'll add that Spines has good AoE as well as some range. I have it on my */Bio stalker. Helps me feel useful in the zerg.

Bone Dancer, yes!! It's been a while.. Since just after Shrouded Isles expansion...

Very welcome! Dark animations are just fine. Dark has an awesome toolkit. While Time offer some safety with some Defense buffing, with Dark you will need to be a bit more active to debuff things for safety. Dark also offers another pet, Dark Servant, who also helps heal, adds a bit of damage, and most importantly, also debuffs huge amounts of -ToHit. In the. end, they are both equal in power, but go about things differently. I recommend trying each as a secondary, they are both the top two support performers for MMs. I love them both, so I have them on multiple characters. Demons and Thugs are also both top sets. They both have a power which adds damage with also can mule the IO defensive procs (all six of them) without taking slots from the pets themselves (Robots, also a great set, falls behind just a tad because it cannot do this). Demons and Thugs also spread their damage around between their T2 and T3 pets, whereas Robots have damage mostly concentrated in the T1 Assault Bot. This is noticable while leveling, but not terrible. Just something to note. Personally, both for power and also for looks and theme, I have and adore: Luna Love: Thugs/Time - my former Verandi mob princess turned music icon with her army of gang members who wanted to 'get out' of the Family. Demonomics: Demons/Dark - what happens when you mix an accountant with a Mu bloodline. Have fun, try out a few sets, and let us know how it goes 🙂

In case it wasn't clear, Masterminds are my favorite class across all MMOs from 1999 to today. I love the ability to do damage, provide team support, have a pet to help do silly pet things (such as pulling, or pet emotes/dancing), and the RP potential. But I'm a pet class person. I've also enjoyed Necromancers (EQ, EQ2); Cabalists, Spiritmasters (Dark Age of Camelot), among others. Not everyone likes pet classes.

@Tiklandian Those are good questions. They are both right and wrong. What do I mean by that? I mean, everyone enjoys different things, and has a different tolerance for the peculiarities of various ATs and power sets. For example, I know that Titan Weapons/Bio Armor brutes are supposedly broken/OP. Yet, I cannot for the life of me get one past level 40. I just can't. The pace and rhythm is just off for me. Same for Masterminds. Either you enjoy the playstyle or not. For me, MMs play a lot like my favorite class from Dark Age of Camelot, the SpiritMaster, who commanded a bunch of skeletal pets. You command and support, while directing. I enjoy that. Just because I do, doesn't mean you will (or won't). Let's cover your questions. Pets suck at higher levels due to pet scaling: This is true for a period of time, but not end game. Especially as you level up. But once you get your incarnate +1 Alpha Incarnate level shift, this helps offset quite a bit. As well, in Incarnate Trials, pets are the same level as your hero (so, 51 to 53). So, what this means? You will mostly notice pets lagging a bit (especially the T3) if you do level 54 radio teams or whatever where you are noticeably deep into mobs. At level 50+3 any of my MMs (Bots/FF, Thugs/Time, Necro/Dark, Beast/Time, Demons/Dark) are all quite capable. I was regularly farm on my Thugs/Time and Bots/FF (depends on how lazy or sleepy I am for which one I farm on) on +4/x8 on a Smashling/Lethal indoor map. I just pulled 3 purple recipes and several million Info for 45 mins work. TLDR: I don't have any issues with the pet scaling once I'm kitted out. Pets aren't good in (high level) groups: Not true. Unless you are underleveled (level 26 in a 54 PI radio or MSR). There is a bit of a 'dip' when you get your T1 pet and before you get your Alpha slot level shift, but that's about it. It fixes itself. All my MMs are able to run solo through Dark Astoria with no issues. It can be a bit rougher than usual pre-Alpha slot, but that's true of many ATs. I routinely take my MMs into all content and enjoy doing so. I don't typically resummon pets on most runs unless something unusual happens or we're getting barraged (such as in the Underground Trial) - see below. TLDR: Pets are awesome in groups. MMs even without pets have something to offer a team with their support powers, too. Pets die in Incarnate Trials: They can. The worst is Lambda, where running around on the indoor map can sometimes send pets into spaz-land. But on the BAF, I find I manage quite well with my pets, because the map isn't that challenging. As always, the map dictates how well your pets manage. That layer-cake room in the cave maps? Even at low level it sucks. Running some maps, you have to expect to lose some pets, such as through the sewers on a TinPex. Its part of the warts of having minions. But the good news is, just resummon. Blue patches of death on the Battle Maiden fight? Once you get used to jousting with pets (using Go To and Follow), you can avoid pet death. I used my Beasts/Time MM against her with no pet deaths. TLDR: Pets can die on certain maps. Getting used to the map helps prevent that. Its not that bad. I run regular iTrials on my MMs. My recommendation? Roll up a mastermind. They are viable at all levels of play, low level, high level, incarnates, solo, teams, leagues. The biggest factor is not the pets, or the numbers or the scaling, its if you enjoy the play style. If you do, then you'll be persistent through the warts and bumps. Also: The recent patch gave two HUGE quality of life bumps to the Mastermind: pets no longer have collision, so teammates won't get stuck behind them; and pet AI is vastly improved so that they do what you tell them to and use their powers better at range or melee. This, all my itself, has doubled my pleasure, double my fun with MMs. Hope that helps. 😀 TLDR: Yes, they are wrong.

Staff/Ninjutsu should be a good leveler. Solid ST and AoE damage both, plus a parry ability to stack with defense. Plus endo and health heals, comprehensive status protection and, as mentioned caltrops for area denial. My own incarnated stalker is spines/bio and it's super fun and robust. Solid AoE and some range too.

To OP: Go Thugs/Time for max dps and survival. Mine is 50+3 fully incarnated and it's easily the most powerful MM I have. I run at +4/x8 on Brigg's S/L farm without breaking a sweat. If you want big game hunting (AVs or GMs) go Bots with either Time or Traps because Big Bot's - Regen is worth about 60-75 dps all by itself. These are all part of the meta. You didn't mention demons or dark, but they are also meta. Just my quick 2 cents. MMs have been my main AT since CoV launched. Best thing to do is try them for yourself. You can always go to test server 🙂

Necro is fine, it's a middle of the road dps set, trading some damage for control. If you like the control-ery aspects, it's very fun and helpful on teams. It's one of my favorite sets. It also enjoys a number of ways to use procs.

When zoning or exiting doors/instances thugs lose their upgrade appearance. This has been a chronic but. Hoping there might be a fix at some point? Have we had any feedback over the last year?

Thanks for confirming! I'll just keep that upgrade button handy!

There are two: Sudden Acceleration knockback to knockdown. This can be slotted in multiple powers. Overwhelming Force damage/knockdown unique. It can turn knockback powers into knockdown, and other attacks gain a 20% to knockdown as well. I'd put a Sudden Acceleration into Assault Bot, and then the Overwhelming Force into the Drones so they have triple the attacks to proceed a KD. I've found the Protector Bots don't KB enough to warrant slotting for KD. Save that slot for something else.

I've noticed for a while that when Thugs travel through a zone or door, they revert back to their stock outfits. They keep their upgrade buffs it seems, but if I want them back in style I have to rebuff. Is this a known bug? Anyone else experience this? It's minor, but annoying. Thanks!

On Everlasting, the answer is either Boy Band or Risa Beemd on an MSR run 😀😄

I need to load this into Mids tomorrow, but I'll give it a looking over for you 🙂 EDIT: looks like some of our forum helpers have already gotten to this. Thanks folks!

Definitely going to recommend Necro/Dark. Oodles of control and debuffs. They generally behave well as far as AI. Compared to Demons, more single target focused, but they have more control for a trade-off in damage. The Knights take some good procs. Plus thematic as hell.