Focused Feedback: Rage

[Old Man Yves]

6 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Could still generally plan around that.  Use lower level IOs for the ones with a recharge component.  

You can't plan around having a random kin join your team though.

 

My idea: Choosing rage during level up gives you two versions of the power (similar to adaptation on bio). One will be the current rage on test, with the overlap possibility and crash.  The second will be non stacking and just refresh on reuse, similar to hasten.  Make them mutually exclusive like the adaptation toggles and then you can choose to either deal with the crash for the overlapping buffs, or not have to deal with it at all with a constant power level (even if its lower).

[Vanden]

4 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

Welp.  Still, having to purposefully gimp yourself in some way--you can't build *too* well or you'll be punished for it--just seems wrong to me.

 

I just think that refreshing over stacking is the most intuitive way to fix it.

All you have to do is not click the power as soon as it's recharged, no build considerations required. It even gets a ring around the icon now, to tell you if using Rage at that moment will cause a crash.

[Captain Powerhouse]

5 minutes ago, jojogladco said:

Is there any particular reason this can't be handled with 2 mutually exclusive powers?. Similar to the Sentinel Master Brawler/Practiced Brawler.  Rage stays as a stackable power with the crashes outlined in the patch notes and a new power that's non stackable Rage is added.

Due to many reasons, deciding and technical ones (the whole mutual exclusive thing is quite a bit of a hack) there wont be any more mutually exclusive powers in the foreseeable future. Master/Practiced brawler was an experiment that we were meaning to remove years ago, but due to many RL things, it never got done.

[FrostedHarbor]

I played tanks on live and I still play them on HC despite the dominance of the Brute in today's world. This feels like an unnecessary singling out of a boost power that makes the SS set worth playing (and learning how to play properly) at all. 

 

From a a conceptual standpoint, a player should not be punished for refining his or her hero to the point that they have mitigated their major weaknesses. That's what makes the incarnate system fun--the sense of optimization. Slotting Rage with IOs feels no different. 

 

From a teaming standpoint, the ability for others to affect my recharge means that my teammates can hurt me and therefore hurt the team at large. I'm trying to think of another power that takes your ability to be effective out of your own hands; I can't. (Unless you're that guy that kept abusing the team teleport power during BAF...)

 

From a game play experience, this turns my entire night from focusing on the mission or chatting with teammates to instead staring at Rage to make sure it doesn't ever stack--or not using it as all, which also feels against the intended outcome here. 

 

All that said to say, I'm fine if it just refreshes and doesn't stack. Just don't penalize SS Tankers in a way that destroys the build altogether. 

[Haijinx]

Although i mentioned the teaming thing earlier, i wonder how much of an issue that really is.  Since a kin adds a lot of damage to the whole team they aren't going to notice your 10 sec of no damage. 

 

 

[johua]

I really don't want to have to spend time staring and waiting for rage to come out of no-no mode, but that's a personal thing, I suppose.

Why does rage need a crash at all?

[Haijinx]

13 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

Welp.  Still, having to purposefully gimp yourself in some way--you can't build *too* well or you'll be punished for it--just seems wrong to me.

 

I just think that refreshing over stacking is the most intuitive way to fix it.

Well you are only sort of punished.  Since you still get the benefits of double stacked rage after all. 

 

The problem is a lot of players love double stacked rage also .. and they will resist getting rid of it. 

 

Me personally id buff jab and punch and make rage single stack only ...

 

But this idea posted for consideration   on test seems like a decent compromise to me 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Haijinx

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, johua said:

Why does rage need a crash at all?

Because it's literally a Build Up that lasts 12 times as long as regular Build Up.

[DMW45]

Just now, Haijinx said:

Well you are only sort of punished.  Since you still get the benefits of double stacked rage after all. 

 

The problem is a lot of players love double stacked rage also .. and they will resist getting rid of it. 

 

Me personally id buff jab and punch and make rage single stack only ...

 

But this idea posted seems like a decent compromise to me 

Generally only by a few seconds, from what I can gather from pines with my current build

[Haijinx]

Just now, DMW45 said:

Generally only by a few seconds, from what I can gather from pines with my current build

If you are only a few seconds over, shouldn't be too hard to adjust.  

 

Just use a slightly lower level recharge enhancement.

[lobster]

Suggestion: Could we get the icon set to highlight (like snipes, etc.) when the power is NOT active?  That might help with those that trigger manually.  It would be a clear indicator of "SAFE TO CLICK WITH NO PUNISHMENT."

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by lobster

[Neogumbercules]

Balancing through annoyance never feels right. You may as well just give the power a cooldown equal to its duration, make recharge unenhanceable, and leave it at that. It's effectively the same outcome only you're not kicking players in the nuts when they accidently stack it for 2 seconds.

 

Just an initial impression upon reading the notes. Will play later. 

[Derek Icelord]

From what I see, the issue with Super Strength isn't Rage, but the set as a whole. We can debate how to tweak Rage's crash until the cows come home, but it is a symptom, not the cause. Crash or no, Rage doesn't change Super Strength into anything other than a middling melee attack set that's chosen for theme and not performance. The whole set needs a rework, not just Rage.

[Amarlex]

This change probably won't make me stop doublestacking it, since it didn't really bother me before anyway. Seems really... inconvenient, though, for anyone who wants/needs to avoid the crash. Considering the awful DPS super strength does on its own, you could honestly remove the crash entirely and I don't think it would really change that much about the gameplay of the set. It's not like you're going to be topping damage charts either way.

[Lazarillo]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

That was an originally idea tossed for discussion but quite a few seem to detest the no-stacking nerf, and single stack rage is not as problematic as multi-stacked, why the crash only gets to be avoided if you wait for it to fade before reactivating.

Random Thought: can Rage perhaps get the "colorful ring" treatment when it's not active so that you know it's "safe" to use again?  Keeps people from having to squint at their buffs to be sure.

[Jon]

Players shouldn't be punished for stacking rage with high recharge. This is not a good change. Stacked Rage should counteract the crash penalty to incentivize IO usage. If I'm spending inf on a build, one of the key powers in the powerset should not get worse on that investment.

[jarethgk]

Why not have it stack and have no crash mechanic.  Instead it gives you buffs ala build up like normal, but the each stack of the power also gives a -def and/or -res.  Maybe to some max number of stack possible ever like 3 or 5 or something.

 

Thus you are making a choice to trade your def/dam resist for acc/damage.  People don't like dying alot? then turn the auto ring off or spam it less.  Need to pile on the damage, and your healer is awesome as heck?  Spam that power... spam!

 

This is just an outside idea not related to mechanics as they are.  The idea is that you get a good benefit for a noticeable punishment each use, but to a limited number of stacks in total you can have.

 

Choose your own destiny from your particular use of rage.

[Vanden]

4 minutes ago, Jon said:

Players shouldn't be punished for stacking rage with high recharge. This is not a good change. Stacked Rage should counteract the crash penalty to incentivize IO usage. If I'm spending inf on a build, one of the key powers in the powerset should not get worse on that investment.

I have to say I'm flabbergasted at how many people seem to think they have no choice but to use Rage as soon as it's recharged.

[Jon]

2 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I have to say I'm flabbergasted at how many people seem to think they have no choice but to use Rage as soon as it's recharged.

I have to say I'm flabbergasted as to why you think people would want Rage to change from a low-maintenance power to a power you have to meticulously keep your eye on its remaining duration so you fire it off at the right time. That's ridiculous.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Jon

[johua]

Just now, Vanden said:

I have to say I'm flabbergasted at how many people seem to think they have no choice but to use Rage as soon as it's recharged.

The set relies on rage being up to be middle of the road.

[Vanden]

Just now, Jon said:

I have to say I'm flabbergasted as to why you think people would want Rage to change from a low-maintenance power to a power you have to meticulously keep your eye on duration for. That's ridiculous.

There's no need to meticulously keep an eye on its duration, it has a ring to indicate when it will cause a crash, so you can tell at a glance when it's safe to use. Furthermore, Rage on the Live shards crashes no matter what, so if you're using Rage ASAP, there is no change in how often the power crashes on you.

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, johua said:

The set relies on rage being up to be middle of the road.

Except when dealing with hard to hit targets.  For those SS is top teir, due to its unsurpassed +to hit.  

 

People always ignore the to hit when they try to discuss rage balance.  

[Jon]

4 minutes ago, Vanden said:

There's no need to meticulously keep an eye on its duration, it has a ring to indicate when it will cause a crash, so you can tell at a glance when it's safe to use. Furthermore, Rage on the Live shards crashes no matter what, so if you're using Rage ASAP, there is no change in how often the power crashes on you.

I missed the ring bit, so that's fair.

The current version of Rage makes Super Strength an unplayable set for me on the SS/EA I recreated from Live. These changes help, but the way stacked Rage ignored the crash from back on Live is by far the optimal option between Live, Homecoming's public servers, and now Homecoming's beta.

[Lazarillo]

11 minutes ago, Vanden said:

There's no need to meticulously keep an eye on its duration, it has a ring to indicate when it will cause a crash

And that's what I get for saying "I haven't played anything with Rage yet, and thus don't think it'd be helpful if I participate in the testing".  Sounds like they already thought of my idea (if in reverse).

[Captain Citadel]

I would really like to see the crash removed. It's not fun, it feels antithetical to the concept of Super Strength, and frankly it's not like the set is in danger of topping damage charts even relative to other melee sets.

Also, while we're at it, can we get a Minimal FX option for Rage? On my Invuln/SS tanker it's rather nice to have the visuals for all my armor turned off, but I'm constantly glowing because I have Rage perma'd (and with a window of two stacks, which is why I really don't want to have to micromanage it to avoid crashing).