Hurricane -Have a way to have the push back just be a knock down Please

[plainguy]

As much as I like hurricane and the melee type defenses it offers.. The Push back is a utter pain in the backside for teaming and fighting purposes. 

I really do get the thematic concept it brings. I get it this is what a hurricane does.. 

 

But it really is somewhat limiting in a team environment in the middle of combat for anything that is NOT an AV because of the push back. 

 

It would be nice if one of the IO sets currently allowed to be slotted in Hurricane which include knock back to knock down could also have the option from push back to knockdown. 

 

Simply the mob stays within the hurricane gets the combat debuff it provides and eventually falls down once the knockdown procs.  

At the end of the day the "push back" is nothing more than a constant knock back. 

 

Further if I can add Tornado already has this in place as an option. 

 

 

[Zepp]

Hurricane has repel (that is what that push-back is), Tornado does not. There are two issues, one is the cottage rule (not changing powers because there are people that have taken them that like them the way they are). This is actually a high number as 73.41-85.71% of players with Storm are taking Hurricane (depending on the AT). Furthermore, Hurricane is one of the best herding tools in-game if used properly. You can herd, lock down, and debuff enemy mobs with a single power... If you want to do it through an IO, it would have to be separate from KB-KD proc (different effect), and would require much more complicated programming as you are changing effects rather than changing magnitudes. Second, because there are so few powers with repel, it is something that would be very time-consuming with little benefit. The 20-30% of players that have storm but do not use hurricane being the primary group, but that is a small subset of a small subset of the CoH community, and there are lots of other matters that require attention.

 

My suggestion is to practice with Hurricane so you can get the geometry right to use it as a herding tool. You can then learn to lockdown mobs in corners and keep them permanently debuffed.

[EyeLuvBooks]

All powers come with choices. Something to consider when thinking about changing a power is 'how many people take it now' and 'how many would take it with the change'? Right now there are very few reasons NOT to take it, which means it's WAI. If the Repel were changed to Knockback then EVERYONE would take it making it too powerful.

 

[plainguy]

9 hours ago, Zepp said:

Hurricane has repel (that is what that push-back is), Tornado does not. There are two issues, one is the cottage rule (not changing powers because there are people that have taken them that like them the way they are). This is actually a high number as 73.41-85.71% of players with Storm are taking Hurricane (depending on the AT). Furthermore, Hurricane is one of the best herding tools in-game if used properly. You can herd, lock down, and debuff enemy mobs with a single power... If you want to do it through an IO, it would have to be separate from KB-KD proc (different effect), and would require much more complicated programming as you are changing effects rather than changing magnitudes. Second, because there are so few powers with repel, it is something that would be very time-consuming with little benefit. The 20-30% of players that have storm but do not use hurricane being the primary group, but that is a small subset of a small subset of the CoH community, and there are lots of other matters that require attention.

 

My suggestion is to practice with Hurricane so you can get the geometry right to use it as a herding tool. You can then learn to lockdown mobs in corners and keep them permanently debuffed.

 

1 hour ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

All powers come with choices. Something to consider when thinking about changing a power is 'how many people take it now' and 'how many would take it with the change'? Right now there are very few reasons NOT to take it, which means it's WAI. If the Repel were changed to Knockback then EVERYONE would take it making it too powerful.

 

 

I do understand how to herd with hurricane. I played with with RO group storm member and we ran all storm teams every weekend. 

 

But in a team setting it is pretty much anti-team.  

Yea you can play it in the background away from the tank/brute/scrapper  herding.  

At level 50 it is good against AVs which resist the knockback/pushback. 

But no one will let you waste time herding mobs unless its MSR type environment or some big farming type map where the Team Lead trust you to understand what your doing to bring him mobs while the rest of team is killing off the current mobs at hand. Thus creating a semi steady flow of mobs coming to the team to speed up the farming progress. 

 

I can personally tell you from my own experience that Hurricane like other KB powers can and will put mobs into places on the map that make them untouchable. This is most apparent in cave missions.  They get stuck in walls and you need some sort of targeted AOE at their feet sticking out to kill them. Further this also ruins the game play when you "accidentally" push the wrong mobs into the wall or ceiling preventing the team from completing the mission.  I've seen mobs get pushed into the wall and then run around in the background to the top of the cave and then disappear off. 

 

Further build wise of course I am going to take it, it puts me at defense cap when solo. 

I can't tell you why others took the power. Maybe they build for defenses but thematic reasons. Maybe its the best choice for the build at that time. Maybe its the best power they could take in the build.

 

But you would need to ask that 73 percent why they took it. You are making a big assumption that they are OK with it because they took it. 

 

I can tell you I took it for defense numbers. I can tell you I only take powers for defense/resistance numbers and NEVER thematic. My goal is defense cap/resistance cap/recharge and run solo on highest setting 4/8 on any Arch Type and power sets. I can tell you I don't make a build or pick a set unless I can do that and I don't create any melee type characters. 

 

But I can tell you it also made having and PBAOE attack useless while hurricane was on. It literally made it single target or just a few mobs. 

 

Hurricane has a repel and knockback. Tornado has a knockback.

 

The Knockback isn't as bad as the repel in this instance.  Repel is the issue. Simply because it literally causes you to miss  mobs with PBAOE attacks. Either You or a team mate. 

I had a KB to KD IO in it and all it did, which is working as intended was push back the mob that fell.

 

They put and have IOs in to change KB to KD. But they can't put in an IO that makes repel KD ?  That's high suspect and speculative to the code comment.

 

An IO would allow a player a choice thus NOT changing the actual power for EVERYONE

And  I do get free to play.

I clearly can say I have donated over a years worth of monthly subs at 15 a month value.

So I am not just asking for something while not helping out. But neither am I saying I expect anything either.

Suggestion forum, I put in a suggestion. 

 

But at the end of the day it is what it is.  

 

[EyeLuvBooks]

6 hours ago, plainguy said:

 

 

I do understand how to herd with hurricane. I played with with RO group storm member and we ran all storm teams every weekend. 

 

But in a team setting it is pretty much anti-team.  

Yea you can play it in the background away from the tank/brute/scrapper  herding.  

At level 50 it is good against AVs which resist the knockback/pushback. 

But no one will let you waste time herding mobs unless its MSR type environment or some big farming type map where the Team Lead trust you to understand what your doing to bring him mobs while the rest of team is killing off the current mobs at hand. Thus creating a semi steady flow of mobs coming to the team to speed up the farming progress. 

 

I can personally tell you from my own experience that Hurricane like other KB powers can and will put mobs into places on the map that make them untouchable. This is most apparent in cave missions.  They get stuck in walls and you need some sort of targeted AOE at their feet sticking out to kill them. Further this also ruins the game play when you "accidentally" push the wrong mobs into the wall or ceiling preventing the team from completing the mission.  I've seen mobs get pushed into the wall and then run around in the background to the top of the cave and then disappear off. 

 

 

And in reply I can honestly say that this is NOT my experience.

 

Does it put mobs into walls? Yep...sure does...and so does EVERY OTHER KB POWER IN THE GAME. I've seen it on DFB for Heaven's sake.

 

As for no one letting you 'waste time' herding mobs maybe that's because the old method of 'tank herds mobs, everyone attacks' become obsolete past a certain level of play. This is true for everyone, not just Stormies. Heck, run a Tank on a mission post-40 with a team of all Controllers or other ranged toons...you'll find most of the spawns dead before you get there.

 

Just because Hurricane is less useful (or necessary) in higher levels is no reason to improve it. Just because teams don't want to wait while you (unnecessarily) herd is no reason to change it either.

[biostem]

I wonder how difficult it would be to add a repel -> knockdown IO, just like there is a KB -> KD one.  From my understand, the KB -> KD one changes the magnitude of the KB, so maybe not so easy?

[Williwaw]

That's the problem right there, yeah.  KB -> KD is just a matter of reducing the magnitude of the Knockback, which automatically turns it into Knockdown.  Repel -> KD involves replacing one effect with an entirely different effect.

 

I rarely actually use Hurricane due to the endurance cost, but when I do, it's because I want that Repel / Knockback combo in there, to herd groups or, for fun, turn it on, put a boss on Follow, and then laugh as they try and fail to keep their feet.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Williwaw

[Uun]

No thank you. Very happy with Hurricane the way it is. Back on live the devs tinkered with the repel quite a bit around 2006-08 and IIRC ended up reverting all the changes after pissing everyone off (other than making it no longer irresistible).

[Xoza]

It's actually really surprising how many people don't take some powers like Hurricane or Repel (kinetic power). Being able to control and push enemies where you want them is nice.

 

Or.. just going bowling and running through the middle of them all.

[Megajoule]

The issue is that some people, if you even slightly interfere with their ability to smack around or efficiently burn down groups with AoEs, get pissy about it.

 

I've been playing some meleers lately, and sometimes my target gets knocked out of my reach.  I roll my eyes, yes, but then I suck it up and run after them.

 

I think a lot of players are spoiled by fire farms et al, or don't want "active" combat; they'd prefer target dummies that just stand there and take it.

 

(Disclaimer: I'm in a slightly cranky mood this morning.)

[CodeJunkie]

On 9/11/2019 at 6:05 AM, EyeLuvBooks said:

All powers come with choices. Something to consider when thinking about changing a power is 'how many people take it now' and 'how many would take it with the change'? Right now there are very few reasons NOT to take it, which means it's WAI. If the Repel were changed to Knockback then EVERYONE would take it making it too powerful.

 

Seriously, if I took a power called "Hurricane" and it didn't knock people around I would be very disappointed.

[CodeJunkie]

1 hour ago, Megajoule said:

The issue is that some people, if you even slightly interfere with their ability to smack around or efficiently burn down groups with AoEs, get pissy about it.

 

I've been playing some meleers lately, and sometimes my target gets knocked out of my reach.  I roll my eyes, yes, but then I suck it up and run after them.

 

I think a lot of players are spoiled by fire farms et al, or don't want "active" combat; they'd prefer target dummies that just stand there and take it.

 

(Disclaimer: I'm in a slightly cranky mood this morning.)

I play all types of characters and I love knockback.  When I'm playing meleers it doesn't bother me at all.  I either run after them or wait for them to come back to me.

[Xoza]

4 hours ago, Megajoule said:

The issue is that some people, if you even slightly interfere with their ability to smack around or efficiently burn down groups with AoEs, get pissy about it.

 

I've been playing some meleers lately, and sometimes my target gets knocked out of my reach.  I roll my eyes, yes, but then I suck it up and run after them.

 

I think a lot of players are spoiled by fire farms et al, or don't want "active" combat; they'd prefer target dummies that just stand there and take it.

 

(Disclaimer: I'm in a slightly cranky mood this morning.)

 

I agree.. times have changed since live, where throwing people around was fun and only a little irritating. People didn't care about efficiency that much back then. Now days, very few games seem to have knockbacks, game companies don't seem to add them, because they know people won't use them.

[Nayeh]

If anything. a Vacuum effect would be fun and OP.

 

Imagine you're Darth Vader choking your opponent and hovering him toward you as he snags a few friends on the way.