I changed my mind on AE farming...

[Abraxus]

8 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Not to mention the entire premise behind being told to use the test server is an accusation of 'avoiding content', just another passive-aggresive jibe, IMO, from people that simply prefer to kill pixels in a different way, but think they have to demean the other ways people play...

 

Next we will be told that anyting that allows a level 50 in less that 300 hours of playtime is cheating?

Where will this 'play the game this way or you are doing it wrong' end?

Man, I hope it never gets to that esoteric level.

[jubakumbi]

22 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

Man, I hope it never gets to that esoteric level.

I recall people being bent very early in the Retail Live game over discovering that some players could power level using things like the old fire farm.

The studio itself built some of the torches and pitchforks.

I can reall specific measurement having been thrown around even then on what was 'right and proper' as a time to 50...

 

While I am a realist and I understand some people are just mean, I simply have never understood the mixture of hate and envy it must take to want to force other people one has never seen nor met, into playing a game the same way...

 

I hear people use words like 'earn' and 'work' when this is a video game, not a job.

MMOs players do not need to have a Protestant Work Ethic to play a game, IMO.

 

But as others have pointed out as well, these types of players have always been here and they will probably never really go away...sad.

My biggest fear about the outcome CoH, TBH, is that whatever entity does end up controlling Lilve servers does not decide to tell the playerbase the 'right way to play'...

[nekkidtruth]

19 hours ago, Troo said:

#3 wanna be #4.

 

Many folks miss out on a lot of the game. My favorite toon on live never went past level 32 and just lived in Siren's Call.

No, "many folks" do not miss out on a lot of the game. "Many folks" have been playing the game for a very long time and have done, redone and redone and redone and redone the content and then redone it again.

 

I have played through levels 1-50 and it's content entirely more times than you inhale in a day. Both blue AND red sides. Some people just like to farm. I LOVE to farm. It doesn't even have anything to do with PL'ing my other toons although that's certainly a bonus. This game is about superheroes and the fact that I can herd a massive mob and take it down allows me to feel "super". One thing I don't like on my farm is horse manure (read: negative, illogical and uneducated opinions on what I do with my time in a video game).

[Neogumbercules]

19 hours ago, Troo said:

That's what test server is for, isn't it? Roll your 50 and then roll another. Avoid all that pesky content.

Nah man. Real players just close their eyes and imagine they're playing a level 50 toon. Skip touching that pesky keyboard. 

[Abraxus]

9 minutes ago, Neogumbercules said:

Nah man. Real players just close their eyes and imagine they're playing a level 50 toon. Skip touching that pesky keyboard. 

That's what I was forced to do for 7 years after the shut-down.  Now, I much prefer actually playing the game I pined away for, lo those 7 years. 😎

[chigiabelo]

6 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

While I am a realist and I understand some people are just mean, I simply have never understood the mixture of hate and envy it must take to want to force other people one has never seen nor met, into playing a game the same way...

There are simply some people who have to live in a world where people are like them and do the things they do and for the same reasons they do them. It's the root motivation of all prejudice/bigotry/racism.

 

It's not just this game; it's like that on virtually every forum I've been a participant in. Here's an example: 25 years ago I took up skiboarding. Skiboards look like small snowboards, about 3 feet long and maybe 5-6 inches wide and you wear one each foot, used with regular ski boots or hard snowboard boots. They were very popular with the inline skater crowd. I went on a snowsports forum online where skiers and snowboarders were, as usual, bashing each other. As soon as I mentioned skiboarding, I immediately started getting flamed.

[EmmySky]

I think many people have experiences from Live like I did where you get a PuG 45-50 and half the people don't even understand how their powers work because they were PLd and didn't actually play the toon.  I hate PuGs for this reason.  This also happened before AE so blaming it for the problem is silly.  

 

Nowadays there are many more people who PL their toons in AE but they are usually vet players who aren't going to leave you stranded in FBZ staring up at a Ruluru hiney.  

 

Over the last month I have run 12 characters through levels 1-20ish and as my son says 'Ugh I dont know how you can keep doing those same arcs!'  Yeah...it gets boring.  AE is something I have considered to make my playtime more diverse but I am totally clueless as to how it works.  I don't build for 'farming' I dont even know what that woild look like.  

 

If I end up with someone on a team at high levels and they are clueless...I get cranky.  But HOW they got there is irrelevant to me.  If you wanna farm or PL or just diversify your play, more power to ya!  It is YOUR playtime and so long as it doesn't impact my playtime who am I to dictate how you play?  (Even if it does impact my play I wont tell you you're wrong I will just leave.)  Just don't get me killed, kthxbi! 😁

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, EmmySky said:

I think many people have experiences from Live like I did where you get a PuG 45-50 and half the people don't even understand how their powers work because they were PLd and didn't actually play the toon.  I hate PuGs for this reason.  This also happened before AE so blaming it for the problem is silly.  

I wouldn't directly blame AE for that. With 2x XP people can hit 50 in less time which means they have less time with their builds. I finally got a build to 50 and still feel like I can spend more time with it. On live, many builds felt like once I hit 50 I was done with them.

[Troo]

On 9/18/2019 at 11:13 AM, MunkiLord said:

No because it's constantly changing to test things out or can be wiped at any time. 

 

On 9/18/2019 at 11:49 AM, jshmoe1236123 said:

This.  One could use the test server to test out a build to see if it's viable for what they want to do, but any long term playing on the test server would be frustrating with the information being wiped.

It appears my sarcasm was done poorly.

[Troo]

On 9/18/2019 at 1:48 PM, nekkidtruth said:

No, "many folks" do not miss out on a lot of the game. "Many folks" have been playing the game for a very long time and have done, redone and redone and redone and redone the content and then redone it again.

 

I have played through levels 1-50 and it's content entirely more times than you inhale in a day. Both blue AND red sides. Some people just like to farm. I LOVE to farm. It doesn't even have anything to do with PL'ing my other toons although that's certainly a bonus. This game is about superheroes and the fact that I can herd a massive mob and take it down allows me to feel "super". One thing I don't like on my farm is horse manure (read: negative, illogical and uneducated opinions on what I do with my time in a video game).

First, the average person takes between 17,280 and 23,040 breaths a day. (at least per the EPA. I have not actually counted)

Second, the irony of telling people how to post while assuming they are telling you how to play. There can be a variety of opinions on a topic.

[nekkidtruth]

7 hours ago, Troo said:

First, the average person takes between 17,280 and 23,040 breaths a day. (at least per the EPA. I have not actually counted)

Second, the irony of telling people how to post while assuming they are telling you how to play. There can be a variety of opinions on a topic.

I was clearly exaggerating to make a point. Sort of like how you were exaggerating by using the term "many folk". No one should be implying they know what the majority feels or how they play. Period.

[subbacultchas]

On 9/19/2019 at 5:04 AM, EmmySky said:

I think many people have experiences from Live like I did where you get a PuG 45-50 and half the people don't even understand how their powers work because they were PLd and didn't actually play the toon.  I hate PuGs for this reason. 

I dunno, I'm beginning to think this doesn't happen really. I've heard this complain since live in response to the old fire tank farms. Being honest, I've never really met someone as described above, that cannot play their character because they were powerlevelled. I've come across folks that weren't prepared for certain enemy types, but that's not the same thing. Maybe I'm lucky here, but I doubt it. I think this is one of those things where people come across bad players, or good players on bad days, and just assume this is the reason.

[ShardWarrior]

On 9/18/2019 at 4:23 PM, jubakumbi said:

I recall people being bent very early in the Retail Live game over discovering that some players could power level using things like the old fire farm.

The studio itself built some of the torches and pitchforks.

I can reall specific measurement having been thrown around even then on what was 'right and proper' as a time to 50...

 

While I am a realist and I understand some people are just mean, I simply have never understood the mixture of hate and envy it must take to want to force other people one has never seen nor met, into playing a game the same way...

 

I hear people use words like 'earn' and 'work' when this is a video game, not a job.

MMOs players do not need to have a Protestant Work Ethic to play a game, IMO.

 

But as others have pointed out as well, these types of players have always been here and they will probably never really go away...sad.

My biggest fear about the outcome CoH, TBH, is that whatever entity does end up controlling Lilve servers does not decide to tell the playerbase the 'right way to play'...

With every community, there is always a difference in opinion.  It's unavoidable.  Some are more inclined to tell others what they should think or do more than others whereas others will simply mind their own business and let others be. 

 

As for the old Paragon Studios Devs not liking farming/PLing, it is understandable in a sense that they wouldn't want people doing it from a business perspective.  PLing is a shortcut.  The longer a person/customer is playing, the longer they have to entice those people in spending some money.  IMO that excuse only goes so far in the modern gaming landscape.  I personally believe it was a bit naive of them to believe farming wouldn't become rampant in the AE system.

 

From my personal experience, the anti-pl'ing/anti-farming thinking is a relic of the old days of early MMOs.  Customers aren't social introverts living in their parent's basement anymore.  Many current game companies offer store items that one can buy to auto-level a character to max level.  Others offer deep account wide discounts to keep the need for farming at a minimal level.  The beauty of it is, this offers more choice for the individual.  Those who want to take a slower pace can and those who would rather not can do that as well.  That's a plus for everyone.

 

 

[Lines]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Customers aren't social introverts living in their parent's basement anymore. 

 

 

Speak for yourself.

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, Lines said:

Speak for yourself.

Touché!   😛

[Abraxus]

We are still dealing with a game, whose basic mechanics were built around a "for profit" motive.  Things to entice folks to subscribe.  We know there is no such thing now, but a lot of those mechanics remain, and the game is pretty much as it was then, in that regard.  Now that there is no such thing as subscription, and the game is unlikely to be changed to the extent that the remnants of that era are erased, or even minimized, there apparently will remain folks who believe that going outside of the normal progression through levels is wrong, and the only legitimate way to play is to go through the available content like most others.  They believe this so passionately, that they tend show a degree of contempt for those who don't.  I don't believe it is pervasive in the player-base of the current game, but it is still a factor.  There is an even smaller contingent among them, who feel empowered enough to foist their opinions/preferences of proper game play on others, as we have seen discussion in other threads on that very topic.  Their voices are thankfully few, but tend to be the most noticeable because of the impact is has on players subject to it. 

 

There isn't much we can do to totally eradicate this issue, outside of reporting it when it does happen.  Other than that, play however you feel is most fun in this game, so long as it does not adversely impact someone else's enjoyment of the game!  In the words of Mark Twain, "Your right to swing your fist ends, where my nose begins.".  I think that applies to many things in life, and certainly in this situation.  Folks are free to do as they will, have fun as they will, and interact with other players as they will, until it crosses that line.

Just my .02 of a dollar's worth.

[MunkiLord]

44 minutes ago, subbacultchas said:

I dunno, I'm beginning to think this doesn't happen really. I've heard this complain since live in response to the old fire tank farms. Being honest, I've never really met someone as described above, that cannot play their character because they were powerlevelled. I've come across folks that weren't prepared for certain enemy types, but that's not the same thing. Maybe I'm lucky here, but I doubt it. I think this is one of those things where people come across bad players, or good players on bad days, and just assume this is the reason.

This is my experience as well. Even if it were true, I enjoy chaos and all of my teaming is done via pugs.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, nekkidtruth said:

I was clearly exaggerating to make a point. Sort of like how you were exaggerating by using the term "many folk". No one should be implying they know what the majority feels or how they play. Period.

Oh geez.

The word 'many' does not mean 'majority'. It's actually a vague term and if the count is more than just a couple handfuls it's use may be appropriate.

I will double down on the irony of telling people how to post while falsely accusing them of telling you how to play.

[nekkidtruth]

Just now, Troo said:

Oh geez.

The word 'many' does not mean 'majority'. It's actually a vague term and if the count is more than just a couple handfuls it's use may be appropriate.

I will double down on the irony of telling people how to post while falsely accusing them of telling you how to play.

What's it like to wear my shoe size?

[Crysis]

On 9/16/2019 at 1:28 PM, Jon said:

Matt Miller is Positron, one of the old CoH Devs.

As for the topic at hand... farming definitely has a place in City of Heroes. I like to farm just to get all of my favorite characters to 50 and IO'd out super quickly so that I can spend more time playing the game on characters without limited power/slot availability or lack of a proper build. To me (and I'm sure many others) characters simply aren't fun to play without being IO'd at level 50. I'm at a point now where I don't really have to farm at all anymore because I made an effort to do all the farming I needed early on, and I think it has been wonderful for my overall experience in this game. I don't have to worry about grinding out TFs for merits, running out of inf, having enough resources... I can just play the game and not think about all that stuff. Throw in the fact that, with farming, you can experiment way more with different AT/Powerset combos than you could ever hope to do without farming, and it starts to make sense why so many people like to do it.

What’s interesting to me is what the haters tolerate as “fair farming” versus “unfair farming.”

 

Badge earning, BY DESIGN, is a farming activity.  Up to and including meters on your status bar about how many more of enemy X you have to kill to earn a badge.  Running around zones to pick up arcane plaque locations to earn badges.  And doing many things outside the norm of standard play JUST to earn enough of certain kinds of badges to earn an Accolade/Temp power....a form of loot.

 

And it was those same “badge farmers” who complained very loudly about having to (gasp!) enter a PVP zone and endure CONTENT that they didn’t want to JUST to earn certain kinds of rewards, temp powers and/or badges.  

 

This whole long-standing argument about “I despise how other play because it doesn’t complement/agree with how I prefer to play” is utter nonsense.  It all boils down to self-centeredness.  “I can’t find low level teams because everyone is cheating by PL’ing at the AE” is just another way of saying “Why can’t everyone just cater to my desires?”  It’s selfish.  

 

Back on Live (maybe here too, I’ve not looked at these forums enough) the entire AE “author” community was in an absolute UPROAR over people who would grade their farms anything less than 4/5 stars because they simply didn’t LIKE their farm.  They campaigned to get the star system adjusted/removed for anyone who dared to rate their perfect AE mission as anything less than perfect.  They even went so far as to blame the farming AE players for it and got a Redname to actually start monitoring what kind of players were rating AE missions, and whether or not they were ‘farmers’ or ‘actual valuable AE content graders.’  It actually led to an active cry for CENSORSHIP of who could/could not rate an AE mission and whether or not the “real” AE authors should be the only voice that mattered. 

 

There is zero cap on influence in this game.  There is zero time limit applied on leveling speed, minimum or maximum.  There is near-limitless levels of “loot” in this game given the recipe system and the badge/accolade award system.  There’s absolutely, categorically zero reason to impose limits on preferences for playstyle and/or methods used to level.  Want to plug an exploit?  Sure, I can agree with that.  Want to force me to adapt my definition of “fun” to yours?  Nope, this isn’t City of Narcissists.

[nekkidtruth]

Very well said. Less snarky than my attempt 😉

[Crysis]

On 9/19/2019 at 6:04 AM, EmmySky said:

I think many people have experiences from Live like I did where you get a PuG 45-50 and half the people don't even understand how their powers work because they were PLd and didn't actually play the toon.  I hate PuGs for this reason.  This also happened before AE so blaming it for the problem is silly.  

 

Nowadays there are many more people who PL their toons in AE but they are usually vet players who aren't going to leave you stranded in FBZ staring up at a Ruluru hiney.  

 

Over the last month I have run 12 characters through levels 1-20ish and as my son says 'Ugh I dont know how you can keep doing those same arcs!'  Yeah...it gets boring.  AE is something I have considered to make my playtime more diverse but I am totally clueless as to how it works.  I don't build for 'farming' I dont even know what that woild look like.  

 

If I end up with someone on a team at high levels and they are clueless...I get cranky.  But HOW they got there is irrelevant to me.  If you wanna farm or PL or just diversify your play, more power to ya!  It is YOUR playtime and so long as it doesn't impact my playtime who am I to dictate how you play?  (Even if it does impact my play I wont tell you you're wrong I will just leave.)  Just don't get me killed, kthxbi! 😁

 

Yes I have run with MANY PUG’s both on Live and now on HC.  And yes its a common occurrence to play with someone who doesn’t remember to use their Toggles, someone who tries to aggro as a squishy, someone who (once) just stood there because they believed that their Aura would do all the killing (THEY HAD NO AURA).  It’s been frustrating, humorous and at times got the whole team wiped when a tanker we recruited ran in to grab aggro, face planted and all of us with him.  We found out later he had just left AE moments earlier and had ZERO enhancements slotted at lvl 38.  

 

But I’ve also run with SO MANY OTHER PUG’s that birthed some of my greatest in-game memories of all time.  The time we went from a party of 8 taking on Tina’s AV arc to just three of us remaining, a mismatched Blaster, Scrapper and Mastermind, and -STILL- managed to drop the remaining AV’s.  Tons of inspirations and temp powers and lots of OMGDIDUSEEWHATWEJUSTDID?  PUG’s are some of the best parts of this game for me.  Like Forrest said....it’s a box of chocolates and you never know what you are going to get.

 

But your “now days there are many more people who PL” doesn’t hold a lot of merit to me.  First, not sure how you know that to be a fact?  I think the player population is a bit small, and split across several shards (and even different communities, like 4Chan etc).  But I don’t think anyone has ever data mined how many toons go from 1-50 in AE/other farms.  So that’s not a fact to me.

 

I admit freely to your third point...I ceased to do the 1-25 grind.  I PL every alt I have to level 27-32, and then take over from there.  But other than my farming toon, and even that I self-PL’d using AE to 50 solo, I enjoy playing the game.  To me, Farming is just part of how I choose to find fun.  

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

On 9/19/2019 at 6:04 AM, EmmySky said:

I think many people have experiences from Live like I did where you get a PuG 45-50 and half the people don't even understand how their powers work because they were PLd and didn't actually play the toon. 

I've run into the oddball person who wasn't PLed and still didn't understand their toon.  It's an exception though, not the rule.

[Lines]

2 minutes ago, Crysis said:

 

But your “now days there are many more people who PL” doesn’t hold a lot of merit to me.  First, not sure how you know that to be a fact?  I think the player population is a bit small, and split across several shards (and even different communities, like 4Chan etc).  But I don’t think anyone has ever data mined how many toons go from 1-50 in AE/other farms.  So that’s not a fact to me.

 

I think they meant 'many more people than prior to AE' or 'than on live' rather than that there are more people who PL than those who don't.

 

 

I'd take a lvl 50 newbie over an overpowered veteran who storms ahead of the team without communicating it. I can deal with wipes better than I can deal with unsolicited ghosting of missions.

[Yomo Kimyata]

As the OP, please allow me to inflict more of my opinion on you!

 

When those who shan’t be named instituted PvP and AE respectively (was it in that order?  I think so.) my reaction was that of watching a leather jacket-clad dude water-ski over a shark pen.  “That’s it,” I said, “Now they are charging us to provide them with content!”  Ironically, today the ideal business plan involves charging people to provide us with their data.  But I digress.

 

I don’t mind in the slightest if someone owns a farming toon.  I mind in the slightest if they bring their farming toon to a TF I am forming, since they were probably optimized for a different purpose.  And yes, I do inherently dislike the idea of PLing even though I now run double xp on new rolls.

 

But really, all I care about is, if I am on a team with you, are you being a jerk?  There are dozens of times as many jerks as there are “AE babies” who have no idea how to get to Striga Isle.  If yes, either I will quit or I will boot you.  But how you got there is up to you.