How would you buff Sentinels?

[Cutter]

1 hour ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear, my "why not play a brute/scrapper" was in reference to the suggestion of giving sents a melee taunt aura and a damage boost for everyone attacking them. Key word being melee, as it would just lead many (myself included) to simply play in melee range. 

Kinda early to be quoting myself, but does +taunt in Sentinel attacks, rather than a taunt aura, make that idea more appealing?

[Replacement]

-I like the t1 and 2 power activation mechanic, oddly enough.  I think Opportunity needs to lean into it more by emphasizing all their added effects into those 2 "modes" paired with increased up-time (second half of post).

-Sort of like a Kheldian, Opportunity should provide 3 mindsets:  Offensive-only, Defensive-only (I'm ok with this one being less common), and "stance-dancers."

-Whatever debuff penalties are apparently and supposedly going on regardless of Opportunity should probably be rolled into Offensive.

-Defensive Opportunity should add a taunt to all your attacks, and supply more survivability. Right now, it appears to just be a weak heal per target hit, which means a good Defensive Opportunity relies on triggering it timely, with your meager aoes off CD to use right at that moment.  I would probably change it to a straight up stacking HoT triggered on all your attacks, with amount per tick scaled to the powers' recharge.  Keep attacking to keep healing... but also taunting.

 

I would also change the triggering system:

* T1s and 2s only require 10-20% of the bar to be filled, with duration the same as Live (or no duration; it just deactivates if you hit 0)

* Instead of emptying the bar when it's over, attacks simply drain the same amount they would normally fill while an Opportunity is active.

* Using the other starter attack will either flip modes (or allow you to stack both Opportunities at double-drain, though I do not prefer that route).

 

That should result in something like an 85%+ up-time, with real decisions on what they are achieving for the party.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Replacement

[Captain Powerhouse]

I have not had a chance to go through this entire thread but I saw the subject and wanted to drop a quick comment:

 

The AT will go through what may be considered a drastic revamp, I do have my hands full right now so it wont happen soon.

 

Things I can say at this time: the entire inherent will be scrapped. The original goal was the sentinel would do lower than scrapper damage half the time, and half the time inside offensive opportunity they would do DPS much higher than scrapper, averaging to 50/50 bit below scrapper damage.

 

Once the inherent is scrapped, the AT damage scale will go up to be comparable (not equal) to scrappers. The AT will get a new inherent that wont be as required to sustain dps, if at all. My current goal is for the AT to do a bit of honor to it's name and become a bit of a spotter/lookout, via inherent mechanics.

 

Things that wont happen (again sorry if I misread) are target cap increases or any addition of taunting capabilities. The goal of the AT is to be akin to a ranged scrapper, not an armored blaster, much less an off-tank.

[Megajoule]

That's great to hear, thanks.

 

I rerolled my Dark/Pistols defender from Live as a Sentinel here, given the opportunity.  Good to hear that he'll finally and fully be the "pistols scrapper" I always imagined him as.

(Yes, I had that concept for a long time; long enough to be annoyed when Phase Shift got nerfed, as another part was being able to go intangible.)

[Cutter]

Let the wild speculation begin!

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

I have not had a chance to go through this entire thread but I saw the subject and wanted to drop a quick comment:

 

The AT will go through what may be considered a drastic revamp, I do have my hands full right now so it wont happen soon.

 

Things I can say at this time: the entire inherent will be scrapped. The original goal was the sentinel would do lower than scrapper damage half the time, and half the time inside offensive opportunity they would do DPS much higher than scrapper, averaging to 50/50 bit below scrapper damage.

 

Once the inherent is scrapped, the AT damage scale will go up to be comparable (not equal) to scrappers. The AT will get a new inherent that wont be as required to sustain dps, if at all. My current goal is for the AT to do a bit of honor to it's name and become a bit of a spotter/lookout, via inherent mechanics.

 

Things that wont happen (again sorry if I misread) are target cap increases or any addition of taunting capabilities. The goal of the AT is to be akin to a ranged scrapper, not an armored blaster, much less an off-tank.

Based on the bolded bit, I'm guessing +Perception will be part of it (tho TBH I've never found that to be a significant effect - maybe I just haven't hit the "right" content for it?). Possibly some kind of targeting assist buff, e.g. teammates who target through the Sentinel add bonus damage somehow? Baked-in Tactics? Spidey sense for ambushes?

 

Based on the italicized bit, does that mean tweaking primary and secondary sets away from melee-scope/PBAoE effects?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Cutter
Added wild speculation

[Rathulfr]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

The goal of the AT is to be akin to a ranged scrapper, not an armored blaster, much less an off-tank.

 

Thanks for contributing to the conversation, @Captain Powerhouse!  I appreciate your time, I know you're busy.

 

Hmm... That's sort of the way I've described it to others, to differentiate it from "tankmage" or "blapper", which I consider different things.  Sentinels definitely need some love to make their damage comparable to Scrappers, though.  Scrappers have the same base damage modifiers as Blasters, do they not?  But I imagine that Sentinels' BDM won't be buffed that much.  But even so, I'm not sure I understand how that would make a Sentinel a more valued contributor to a team.  In fact, picking "ranged Scrapper" as a model is probably the worst comparison in those regards, because Scrappers don't contribute much else to a team besides damage.  I was kind of hoping that Sentinels would offer something more than that.  I guess the proof will be in the pudding, when CP gets around to working on this some time in the future (and definitely not Soon™).

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Rathulfr

[PaxArcana]

31 minutes ago, Cutter said:

Based on the bolded bit, I'm guessing +Perception will be part of it (tho TBH I've never found that to be a significant effect - maybe I just haven't hit the "right" content for it?). Possibly some kind of targeting assist buff, e.g. teammates who target through the Sentinel add bonus damage somehow? Baked-in Tactics? Spidey sense for ambushes?

... maybe give the Sentinel an Aura, wide-area, that has a buff that scales to how many enemies are around?  Some +Defense, some +Resistance, for all team-mates (and friendly Pets) ...?

[PaxArcana]

16 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I was kind of hoping that Sentinels would offer something more than that.

Give Sentinels a Buff/Debuff rate similar to (but a bit less than) Corruptors, perhaps.  In addition to the Inherent suggestion I just made.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Good to hear it's being looked at! Particularly that it will no longer be "feast or famine" in regard to Opportunity, resulting in a more even play experience. 

 

Other than semantics, I'm not too sure what the major difference between ranged scrapper and armored blaster is, but maybe I'm missing something. 

[Rathulfr]

13 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Give Sentinels a Buff/Debuff rate similar to (but a bit less than) Corruptors, perhaps.  In addition to the Inherent suggestion I just made.

Oddly enough, I was just thinking about this and wondering if Sentinels couldn't be given something like "Leadership Lite" as an Inherent: a team buff for a small percentage of defense, damage, and accuracy/to-hit.  If Sentinels are spotters/lookouts, then their alertness benefits everyone on the team, as they keep everyone informed of target positions and activities.  Of course, this bumps them up against the role of VEATs, who also have built-in Leadership powers.  Perhaps the difference would be that the Leadership Lite of Sentinels wouldn't stack with the Leadership powers activated by other team mates?  I dunno.  Just thinking aloud...

 

(more edits)  Perhaps the Sentinels' Leadership Lite would buff other attributes, instead of conflicting/stacking with Leadership?  Buffs to recharge, recovery, and/or regen might be good?  That would also swing them clear of Corruptor/Defender buffs/debuffs.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Rathulfr

[Cutter]

Thinking on it a bit more, I'd ask for a couple clarifications from @Captain Powerhouse, if I may:

• What does "ranged scrapper" actually mean? And to echo @Bossk_Hogg, what actually IS the difference between that and an "armoured blaster"? Lower damage and better armour?
• What is the vision of the "spotter/lookout" role addition? I thought of several pulled-out-of-my-butt ways to mechanically represent something that might align with those terms, but what actually jives with your idea behind it?

[PaxArcana]

52 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Of course, this bumps them up against the role of VEATs, who also have built-in Leadership powers. 

I have no problem considering Sentinel to be a "UEAT" (Universal Epic Archetype).  Especially since all Epic ATs are unlocked form Day Zero, anyway.

 

Quote

Perhaps the difference would be that the Leadership Lite of Sentinels wouldn't stack with the Leadership powers activated by other team mates?  I dunno.  Just thinking aloud...

That would suck, hard.  Almost any team that had a Mastermind on it (MMs tend to get at least parts of Leadership, especially the three core tiggles) would gain less benefit from a Sentinel than a team without them.  Also, that would then raise the question of, do multiple Sentinels' inherents stack with each other?  (IMO, they absolutely should.)

 

Quote

Perhaps the Sentinels' Leadership Lite would buff other attributes, instead of conflicting/stacking with Leadership?  Buffs to recharge, recovery, and/or regen might be good?  That would also swing them clear of Corruptor/Defender buffs/debuffs.

You know what Leadership doesn't do?  Resistance.  Especially, not debuff resistance.

 

So, here's an idea:

 

Sentinels have an aura (60 feet radius?  80?  100?); for each in-combat enemy within that aura (up to 10 enemies), any allies in the aura are given a 0.5% resistance to all types of damage, and a 1% resistance to debuffs.  When multiple sentinels are present, no one character can exceed 25% damage resistance and 50% debuff resistance (equalling the effect of five max-bonus Sentinels, stacked right up).  When solo, the Sentinel benefits from their own aura with twice the usual bonus.

 

Note especially, the debuff resistance would be something uniquely theirs.  No-one else would be providing that benefit to a team, not by any means I am aware of.

 

And the damage-resistance buff would be completely different from the normal effects of Leadership.
 

EDIT again, to add: tagging @Captain Powerhouse.... because I think that Inherent suggestion is innovative enough that it should pass before your eyes, for possible future consideration.

Edited September 19, 2019 by PaxArcana

[Bossk_Hogg]

8 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

I have no problem considering Sentinel to be a "UEAT" (Universal Epic Archetype).  Especially since all Epic ATs are unlocked form Day Zero, anyway.

VEATS are also WAY too lore specific to hog that particular niche to themselves. Similarly, I wish we had a more free form "stance dance" AT than Kheldians that can assume new roles on the fly.

[PaxArcana]

I just added a massive edit to that post, @Bossk_Hogg.  Might want to re-read it, to see if there's anything else you want to comment on.  :)

[Cutter]

I really like the "alt-Leadership" approach @PaxArcana, particularly the debuff resistance aspect. As far as a defensive buff is concerned, tho, I don't know that straight +res is the way to go, simply because the Sentinels' secondaries are not all resistance based and I personally like the idea of something a little more flavour-agnostic (yes, I do get that you're trying not to step on Maneuvers' toes with this as well).

 

To that end, along with the debuff resistance, I'd propose +perception (cause I'm still trying to find the flavour of "lookout/spotter", dangit!) and some foe -damage & -tohit (which better supports the multiple armour types in the game). Shooting for an "I am the Sentinel, the Watcher Over All, and I see your tricks coming from a mile away" kinda vibe.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Cutter
bolded stuff

[Cooltastic]

7 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Back rows typically don't need much protecting on any team w a tank type, so effectively you'd remove their inherent. Plus I don't think too many rolled an armored blaster to off-tank. Also I would just play my sentinel in melee range w the tank, so at that point, why not make a scrapper/brute and deal more damage?

 

6 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear, my "why not play a brute/scrapper" was in reference to the suggestion of giving sents a melee taunt aura and a damage boost for everyone attacking them. Key word being melee, as it would just lead many (myself included) to simply play in melee range. 

 

Well, I wasn't thinking of it as a small ranged melee aura, but an aura that would cover the same distance of some of your bigger PBAoE's(Like the range on the Warshades DoT toggle.) But thinking more on it, it would be difficult for it to ever taunt more than a few when there's a tank around. It would still be great for team play in protecting the squishies that much more, but getting your damage/recharge boosted by those targeting you probably wouldn't work out. We would end up with Sentinels in melee greedily trying to get as much agro as they could to boost damage. So toss that idea.

 

I guess toss the whole thing out since CP said no way to making Sents off tanks anyway. 

[Captain Powerhouse]

3 hours ago, Cutter said:

• What does "ranged scrapper" actually mean? And to echo @Bossk_Hogg, what actually IS the difference between that and an "armoured blaster"? Lower damage and better armour?
• What is the vision of the "spotter/lookout" role addition? I thought of several pulled-out-of-my-butt ways to mechanically represent something that might align with those terms, but what actually jives with your idea behind it?

 

Blasters, as glass-cannons, tend to have a lot more AoE and burst potential via snipes and nukes. On top of nukes (that other ranged ATs get) Blasters also tend to get double-damage boosters at very high modifier levels (Aim + Build Up or some equivalent) that allows heavy aoe burst potential. Sentinels by design should never step in that territory.

 

This is why the sentinel don't have snipes and their nukes are heavily toned down, to work be more in line with melee "nukes" like Lightning Rod.

 

As for the vision for the lookout, it's still not finalized, but a form of inherent Tactics is a close call, things that would buff tohit and perception, and enemy -stealth (that might not be useful a lot in PvE, but there are enemies like Arachnos that can make heavy use of stealth and -perception.) ToHit buffing can also make most other ranged ATs better by buffing their snipes via tohit. In PvP, a sentinel might work as a bit of anti-stalker, but that will need to be tweaked carefully.

[Captain Powerhouse]

4 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

But even so, I'm not sure I understand how that would make a Sentinel a more valued contributor to a team. 

In an ideal world, IMO, any DPS job would be equally desirable as a contributor to the team. My hope is to get the AT to a point where someone that feels their character concept is better served by an armored ranged attacker (Iron Man) is not forced to justify their spot on a team, not to get them to a point where they can tell every team "you need me."

[Gorgar]

11 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

In an ideal world, IMO, any DPS job would be equally desirable as a contributor to the team. My hope is to get the AT to a point where someone that feels their character concept is better served by an armored ranged attacker (Iron Man) is not forced to justify their spot on a team, not to get them to a point where they can tell every team "you need me."

This sounds pretty cool.  Now I'm hoping for, some day, an arcane defense set, because my armored ranged attacker would be more along the lines of Dr Fate.  I'd love to see the sorcery pool as a starting point for a new powerset (or two, there's a blast in there).

 

I have not played a sentinel past level 4 and it's probably mainly the inherent that just doesn't do it for me, so I'm looking forward to this.

[Megajoule]

34 minutes ago, Gorgar said:

This sounds pretty cool.  Now I'm hoping for, some day, an arcane defense set, because my armored ranged attacker would be more along the lines of Dr Fate.  I'd love to see the sorcery pool as a starting point for a new powerset (or two, there's a blast in there).

 

I have not played a sentinel past level 4 and it's probably mainly the inherent that just doesn't do it for me, so I'm looking forward to this.

Arcane = Magic, which is an Origin.  IMO, you should pick the defense (and/or offense) set that most closely matches the effect you want, recolor it (if necessary), and go with that.  (And take the Sorcery pool, of course.)

Edited September 20, 2019 by Megajoule

[Rathulfr]

55 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

In an ideal world, IMO, any DPS job would be equally desirable as a contributor to the team. My hope is to get the AT to a point where someone that feels their character concept is better served by an armored ranged attacker (Iron Man) is not forced to justify their spot on a team, not to get them to a point where they can tell every team "you need me."

Agreed.  In fact, Iron Man is the inspiration for my main character, be it Blaster or Sentinel.  But right now, the problem is that I'm getting, "we don't need you, Sentinel".  When I mained a Sentinel, I was almost constantly having to justify my spot on a team.   Finally, I just quit fighting it and went back to Blaster. I'm looking forward to the changes.

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Rathulfr

[Captain Powerhouse]

I think that “we don’t need you” mindset comes mostly from it being too hard to leverage the current feast/famine nature of the AT. Hopefully once that is gone perception of the AT in groups will improve.

[DR_Mechano]

13 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

I think that “we don’t need you” mindset comes mostly from it being too hard to leverage the current feast/famine nature of the AT. Hopefully once that is gone perception of the AT in groups will improve.

I know you've spoken that you're not going to increase the target caps BUT the problem is this does affect certain sets more than others. Assault Rifle (Which is my personal bug bear on sentinels having gotten one to 35 before deleting it) suffers with its reduce cone range because it has maybe 3 single target attacks and the powers themselves need to be rebalanced. Currently Assault rifle deals just awful anemic damage and can't leverage its cone based powers without having a tank really group everything incredibly tightly.

 

Also Assault rifle doesn't get a decent replacement for its snipe, Slug needs to have something done to it, it's a starting choice power several levels higher with very little modification to it.

 

Meanwhile Beam rifle doesn't lose anything for lessening the target caps since it's not AoE based anyway (it has mostly already narrow cones and one nuke) combined with its inherent -res and -regen makes it a clear choice along with it getting a really awesome replacement for its snipe.

 

TL:DR Assault Rifle for sentinels needs a rework.

Edited September 20, 2019 by DR_Mechano

[Captain Powerhouse]

When we get to the AT sets will be looked at, but AR replaces Snipe with Aim (that no other version if AR gets) and also has a fourth ST attack with Incinerator.

[Zepp]

One strange aspect of the AT is that it seems to be the single target ranged dps (compared to the AoE ranged dps Blaster), but it loses the snipe. While I like a lot of the snipe replacements, it seems to contradict the manner in which the AT has been formulated. I see how it facilitates the dps over burst mentality, but it does lead to issues of it becoming very difficult to justify them being the anti-stalker, when they can't snipe those sneaky ATs.

That being said, I think AR is currently under-rated and will gain popularity over time.