DELETE Hasten, SLIGHTLY ALTER all enemies, SLIGHTY ALTER all player powers

[TheAdjustor]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Nice shifting of the goalposts.

No that's very much the original position of the goal post.

 

If you are going to tick people the hell off and make changes to the game there needs to be a very good reason for it.  So far the delete hasten side doesn't have anything to support their position except perhaps boredom and perhaps desire to participate in a troll thread.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Hasten "breaks the game" insofar as it essentially allows you to bypass restrictions that were put in place and allow you to not have to worry about taking or slotting other powers.  Why bother taking non-mandatory lower-tier powers when you can just take hasten and use higher tier ones?  How would you react to them saying that a whole slew of powers would no longer benefit from global recharge bonuses?  You could still slot the power directly for recharge, but it wouldn't benefit from hasten and all those other global recharge buffs?  Meta-powers are insanely powerful, and should be granted very sparingly and with great consideration for their impact on all other aspects of the game.

So do set bonuses, so do incarnate powers.  But you have to give up something in each aspect to make another stronger.

 

You could be an indestructable brick and never do anything with recharge. If thats what you want to do.

 

Its just a popular choice thats all.  Doesnt make the game less fun or diseased with imbalance.

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Hasten "breaks the game" insofar as it essentially allows you to bypass restrictions that were put in place and allow you to not have to worry about taking or slotting other powers. 

Not sure that makes sense?  What restrictions is hasten allowing someone to bypass?

[MunkiLord]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Meta-powers are insanely powerful, and should be granted very sparingly and with great consideration for their impact on all other aspects of the game.

I don't disagree. But the ship has sailed on Hasten.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, TheAdjustor said:

No that's very much the original position of the goal post.

 

If you are going to tick people the hell off and make changes to the game there needs to be a very good reason for it.  So far the delete hasten side doesn't have anything to support their position except perhaps boredom and perhaps desire to participate in a troll thread.

He'll im not even mad. lol im scratching my head on this one... I mean hasten??   Really?!?!

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, TheAdjustor said:

So far the delete hasten side doesn't have anything to support their position except perhaps boredom and perhaps desire to participate in a troll thread.

Imagine if there was a power that globally increased the magnitude of all mez effects.  Would you be fore it or against it?  Most powers have a cooldown time.  Some don't allow you to, within that power, reduce that recharge.  Some also don't benefit from global recharge buffs, but those are much fewer in number.  Can you not see how being able to work around these kinds of restrictions is terribly unbalancing?  Maybe we shouldn't be able to have things like perma-dom or T9s.  Maybe if we didn't have these kinds of work-arounds things that actually need attention would get it.  I also get a good chuckle when some people equate "doesn't agree with me" to trolling.  Unless you can actually demonstrate that is the case, then you are just someone who can't argue your position, and resorts to name-calling.

[TheAdjustor]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

Not sure that makes sense?  What restrictions is hasten allowing someone to bypass?

Kind of curious about that myself seeing if my memory playing tricks on me, it has been in the game since the beginning and went unchanged even after ED.

 

I may have problems with what the Paragon/Cryptic developers were doing with the game and how they went about it, but I am pretty sure they could ADD. (Hell with the exception of the Empath badge, Positron could likely divide when he wanted to)

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Not sure that makes sense?  What restrictions is hasten allowing someone to bypass?

The diminishing returns from ED, for one thing.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I don't disagree. But the ship has sailed on Hasten.

Well, there's no reason characteristics of the game can't be reexamined.  Nothing is set in stone, afterall...

[Moka]

Wouldn't removing hasten just compel everyone to take Ageless Core from the Destiny Incarnate? 

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

Imagine if there was a power that globally increased the magnitude of all mez effects.  Would you be fore it or against it?

I’m also all for permadom. My Dark/Stone Dom is fun as hell to play. 

[Steampunkette]

So 3 pages ago, now, I posted an alternative suggestion. Everyone was too busy engaging in Ad Hominem, Strawmen, and other fallacies to notice it, though, so I'll repost it, here:

 

Reduce Hasten to a 25% recharge buff. Reduce the Cooldown to 200 seconds.

 

Add a Global 25% recharge buff to everyone.

 

With 2 recharge IOs Hasten becomes Perma at 25%, with the 25% constant, that's 50%. Like Practiced Brawler, it will be possible to double-stack Hasten, resulting in a net 5% gain at 75% total.

 

But the incentive to do so is lessened, aside from the minmaxers and recharge monkey powersets and archetypes.

 

 

[TheAdjustor]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Imagine if there was a power that globally increased the magnitude of all mez effects.  Would you be fore it or against it?  Most powers have a cooldown time.  Some don't allow you to, within that power, reduce that recharge.  Some also don't benefit from global recharge buffs, but those are much fewer in number.  Can you not see how being able to work around these kinds of restrictions is terribly unbalancing?  Maybe we shouldn't be able to have things like perma-dom or T9s.  Maybe if we didn't have these kinds of work-arounds things that actually need attention would get it.  I also get a good chuckle when some people equate "doesn't agree with me" to trolling.  Unless you can actually demonstrate that is the case, then you are just someone who can't argue your position, and resorts to name-calling.

Domination ? Not bad it's really not my style of play but I see no problem with other people having it. (The lockdown proc is also quite nice does the same sort of thing and isn't even a power pick).

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Well, there's no reason characteristics of the game can't be reexamined.  Nothing is set in stone, afterall...

True. But we're not talking about something relatively new like Titan Weapons. We're talking about something that has been here from the start as a significant part of the game. I want to know how changing Hasten in the ways described would benefit me. 

[Starforge]

The only change to Hasten I can get on board with is making it inherent like Stamina.

[TheAdjustor]

Just now, Steampunkette said:

So 3 pages ago, now, I posted an alternative suggestion. Everyone was too busy engaging in Ad Hominem, Strawmen, and other fallacies to notice it, though, so I'll repost it, here:

 

Reduce Hasten to a 25% recharge buff. Reduce the Cooldown to 200 seconds.

 

Add a Global 25% recharge buff to everyone.

 

With 2 recharge IOs Hasten becomes Perma at 25%, with the 25% constant, that's 50%. Like Practiced Brawler, it will be possible to double-stack Hasten, resulting in a net 5% gain at 75% total.

 

But the incentive to do so is lessened, aside from the minmaxers and recharge monkey powersets and archetypes.

 

 

Or we could just not change hasten and add another power pick to the speed pool or another pool that gives 20-35 percent +recharge and call it a day as now people actually have a choice.

[Apparition]

Just now, Starforge said:

The only change to Hasten I can get on board with is making it inherent like Stamina.

Indeed.  That would let me work Group Fly into my builds!

[MunkiLord]

3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

So 3 pages ago, now, I posted an alternative suggestion. Everyone was too busy engaging in Ad Hominem, Strawmen, and other fallacies to notice it, though, so I'll repost it, here:

 

Reduce Hasten to a 25% recharge buff. Reduce the Cooldown to 200 seconds.

 

Add a Global 25% recharge buff to everyone.

 

With 2 recharge IOs Hasten becomes Perma at 25%, with the 25% constant, that's 50%. Like Practiced Brawler, it will be possible to double-stack Hasten, resulting in a net 5% gain at 75% total.

 

But the incentive to do so is lessened, aside from the minmaxers and recharge monkey powersets and archetypes.

 

 

This isn't a bad idea as the only downside is the constant activation. Maybe endurance too, but I don't care about that. If we move some percentage from Hasten to an inherent buff, and keep everything else the same, I don't see any downside.

[ShardWarrior]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

The diminishing returns from ED, for one thing.

With regard to recharge?  Not entirely true and IO set bonuses also do this as do Incarnates.  Should we nerf Cardiac too?  It essentially nullifies END issues.

[Corruption]

11 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

So 3 pages ago, now, I posted an alternative suggestion. Everyone was too busy engaging in Ad Hominem, Strawmen, and other fallacies to notice it, though, so I'll repost it, here:

 

Reduce Hasten to a 25% recharge buff. Reduce the Cooldown to 200 seconds.

 

Add a Global 25% recharge buff to everyone.

 

With 2 recharge IOs Hasten becomes Perma at 25%, with the 25% constant, that's 50%. Like Practiced Brawler, it will be possible to double-stack Hasten, resulting in a net 5% gain at 75% total.

 

But the incentive to do so is lessened, aside from the minmaxers and recharge monkey powersets and archetypes.

 

 

I'd have to crunch the numbers, but this would just be going in the complete opposite direction by making it even better. I just say leave it alone. If you want to make something inherent, choose Combat Jumping or Super Speed, they're both must have powers to me.

[Rathulfr]

1 minute ago, Corruption said:

I'd have to crunch the numbers, but this would just be going in the complete opposite direction by making it even better. I just say leave it alone. If you want to make something inherent, choose Combat Jumping or Super Speed, they're both must have powers to me.

This is kind of why I suggested elsewhere that we simply add a minor +recharge effect to Swift (say maybe a maximum of 10%) and leave everything else alone.  Suggesting changes to Hasten is just poking a bear that nobody should want to disturb.

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

With regard to recharge?  Not entirely true and IO set bonuses also do this as do Incarnates.  Should we nerf Cardiac too?  It essentially nullifies END issues.

So let's say you have ~ 3 recharge reduction SOs/generic IOs in a power.  Hasten grants roughly 2 SOs of further recharge reduction.  This total bonus is not impacted like as if you tried slotting 5 recharge redux in that power - that's what I meant.  As for Incarnate abilities - that's a whole 'nother can of worms...

[Haijinx]

12 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

This isn't a bad idea as the only downside is the constant activation. Maybe endurance too, but I don't care about that. If we move some percentage from Hasten to an inherent buff, and keep everything else the same, I don't see any downside.

An additional downside is that it feels like change for change's sake.

[MunkiLord]

Just now, Haijinx said:

An additional downside is that it feels like change for change's sake.

This is true.

[biostem]

17 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

True. But we're not talking about something relatively new like Titan Weapons. We're talking about something that has been here from the start as a significant part of the game. I want to know how changing Hasten in the ways described would benefit me. 

It may not benefit *you* at all, but IMHO, it would benefit the game as a whole.  Certainly it would be a blow to those top-end players that maximize as many aspects of their character as possible - I'd never deny that.