blasters vs corr damage

[boggo2300]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

Of course, so can gene-spliced carnivorous wasps carrying viral payloads... but public humiliation is cheaper.

WE SO NEED THIS!!!

[merrypessimist]

9 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

This thread should be closed.  The OP posted the same thing back on December 4 under a different (but similar) forum handle.  They are not going to accept any facts or arguments.  They are either trolling or not intelligent enough to understand what is going on.  

Can both be true?

[EmmySky]

46 minutes ago, siolfir said:

it will lead you to the obvious conclusion that Defenders are the damage kings of CoH.

They aren't?!!?!  😝

[cparks70402]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 12:10 PM, Omega-202 said:

No, they didn't.  I remember the exact post from the nuked thread that you're referring to, because I was the one who suggested it:

 

a) Do it at level 50 on test (because we all know that damage scalars at level 1 are not accurate) and

 

b) I said to use the combat log, not the floating numbers, as you have done, because floating numbers are not accurate and are rounded off.  A Blaster that hits for 9.49 damage shows as 9 and a Corruptor that hits for 7.75 damage shows as 8 (and 16 for Scourge).  The combat log gives you the real numbers.

 

Now to make it exactly clear to you:

 

1) Go on test and make a Blaster and Corruptor, with a non RNG damage primary (not fire, because the chance for bonus burn damage over time is obviously confusing you)

 

2) Auto level them both to 50, or some arbitrary equal level that is above lvl 20, where the early game damage curve corrects itself.

 

3) Go attack the same basic even level enemy with a single instance of the same power.  A simple test would be hopping over to PI, grabbing a Council radio mission at 0/1 and attacking a simple soldier.  

 

4) Open the combat log and take a screen shot after a single attack (just hit the Print Screen button on your keyboard).

 

5) Post both pictures here.  

 

It is very obvious that you don't understand how the game works.  You don't seem to get that people posting here have torn this game apart, and know everything about it.  You're not finding some weird thing, you're just wrong.

just to be clear i deleted the thread because of how toxic it was becoming. as the GM said in a previous post lets not name call people.

[Omega-202]

7 minutes ago, cparks70402 said:

just to be clear i deleted the thread because of how toxic it was becoming. as the GM said in a previous post lets not name call people.

Please point to where I called you a name in that post.  You don't seem to understand the difference between someone disagreeing with you and someone calling you names. 

 

Earlier in the thread, when I called you unintelligent, it was not an insult, it was a statement of fact because you have shown yourself to be just that.  

[HelenCarnate]

On 12/15/2019 at 1:20 AM, cparks70402 said:

i did a small test to see which one does more damage. i made a lvl 1 fire corr and fire blaster. i only attacked lvl 1 minions and killed 10 on each char. i added up the total damage each one did. the corr and blaster where both using fire blast and only that power. both where hitting for 8 damage on the 1st attack. the blaster was hitting for 9 damage on the 2nd attack. the corr seemed to proc the fire dot more often than the blaster and scourge was hitting for 16 damage. this test was also with no buffs from outside sources, or reds, only using the base damage of the attack.

 

the blasters total damage on 10 different lvl 1 minions was 229 damage.

the corr total damage done on 10 different lvl 1 minions was 322 damage.

 

so overall corr do quite a bit more damage than blasters. this doesnt account for buffs or debuffs that each class can give themselves. just the base of the attacks.

 

Your test method (as others have pointed out) is horrible.  Using level 1s unslotted will not get you accurate numbers (as others have also pointed out)  If you want to test which does more damage between the blaster and corruptor primary you have to remove variables.  So how do you run a test with as few variables as possible?  

 

1. On the test server, create an AE mission on a small map with one EB level mob that has no attacks but you should be nice and give them some KB protection to prevent having to chase them all over if you have KB. (If you take my advice on #3 then Grounded from Electric armor works perfect.) 

 

2. Create a blaster and corruptor with the same ranged attacks.  No fire, beam rifle, sonic or DP as all of those have debuffs or random added damage and that may throw off the numbers of the test.  Also no Aim or Build Up or any other powers like that as we are only looking at base performance levels.  Also avoid pet based attacks and only regular IOs for slotting with the everything getting 1 accuracy, 1 end redux, 1 recharge and 3 damage IOs.  I would go with Psi as it has 5 single target attacks and none of those are DOTs as that can throw off the test once the HP get low.  Feel free to do everything to remove any endurance issues.  5 slot Stamina + Performance Shifter, throw Numina, Panacea and Miracle in Health and use Cardiac Core Alpha just to be safe.  Just be sure both have the same set up on both builds. Also no Hasten or leadership toggles as there should be no buffs and you already have 95% chance to hit even level mobs.

 

3. Arrange your attacks by DPA so the highest DPA is in slot 1 and 2nd highest in slot 2 and so on.  When you attack you use the highest DPA attack you have available to you at the time. Then enter the mission at +1 (so they will be even level with your level shift) and just as you start your first attack, start a timer.  The timer ends when the mob is dead.  Repeat this 10 times and get an average time for each set.  The one with the best time wins.  If you don't know which has the highest DPA it would be Psi Lance, TK Blast, Will Domination, Mental Blast and Psionic Dart.  Yes there will be some down time once you run through the chain but it will be the same for both.  Running 10 times means that if 1 run gets plagued by bad luck it will average out overall. 

 

Now being an EB mob, that does allow for more opportunities for scourge to kick in but I believe the Blaster will still come out ahead. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by HelenCarnate

[boggo2300]

9 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

Your test method (as others have pointed out) is horrible.  Using level 1s unslotted will not get you accurate numbers (as others have also pointed out)  If you want to test which does more damage between the blaster primary and corruptor secondary you have to remove variables.  So how do you run a test with as few variables as possible?  

 

1. On the test server, create an AE mission on a small map with one EB level mob that has no attacks but you should be nice and give them some KB protection to prevent having to chase them all over if you have KB. (If you take my advice on #3 then Grounded from Electric armor works perfect.) 

 

2. Create a blaster and corruptor with the same ranged attacks.  No fire, beam rifle, sonic or DP as all of those have debuffs or random added damage and that may throw off the numbers of the test.  Also no Aim or Build Up or any other powers like that as we are only looking at base performance levels.  Also avoid pet based attacks and only regular IOs for slotting with the everything getting 1 accuracy, 1 end redux, 1 recharge and 3 damage IOs.  I would go with Psi as it has 5 single target attacks and none of those are DOTs as that can throw off the test once the HP get low.  Feel free to do everything to remove any endurance issues.  5 slot Stamina + Performance Shifter, throw Numina, Panacea and Miracle in Health and use Cardiac Core Alpha just to be safe.  Just be sure both have the same set up on both builds. Also no Hasten or leadership toggles as there should be no buffs and you already have 95% chance to hit even level mobs.

 

3. Arrange your attacks by DPA so the highest DPA is in slot 1 and 2nd highest in slot 2 and so on.  When you attack you use the highest DPA attack you have available to you at the time. Then enter the mission at +1 (so they will be even level with your level shift) and just as you start your first attack, start a timer.  The timer ends when the mob is dead.  Repeat this 10 times and get an average time for each set.  The one with the best time wins.  If you don't know which has the highest DPA it would be Psi Lance, TK Blast, Will Domination, Mental Blast and Psionic Dart.  Yes there will be some down time once you run through the chain but it will be the same for both.  Running 10 times means that if 1 run gets plagued by bad luck it will average out overall. 

 

Now being an EB mob, that does allow for more opportunities for scourge to kick in but I believe the Blaster will still come out ahead. 

even not as a test that sounds kinda fun

[Riverdusk]

3 hours ago, siolfir said:

 

A silly note: due to their inherent, a solo Defender will have a +20% damage buff. At level 1, this puts their damage on an unslotted attack (9.3 * 1.2, 11.16 total) higher than a Blaster's (10.25). So you can't ever use level 1 numbers to compare damage for the ATs, because it will lead you to the obvious conclusion that Defenders are the damage kings of CoH.

30% buff, but actually that also scales with level and doesn't get to +30% until level 20.  At level 1 the vigilance solo damage buff for defenders is only 6%.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers#Vigilance

[HelenCarnate]

1 minute ago, boggo2300 said:

even not as a test that sounds kinda fun

I may try this at some point.  I have no idea which will actually win as the test is biased to favor Corruptors with additional chances for Scourge but my gut (and the math) says that the Blaster will still kill faster.  I would have suggested using AVs but odds are the damage from the corruptor would not be enough to overcome their regen or would take a very long time without help from buffs/debuffs in their secondary. 

[Machariel]

8 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

Please point to where I called you a name in that post.  You don't seem to understand the difference between someone disagreeing with you and someone calling you names. 

 

Earlier in the thread, when I called you unintelligent, it was not an insult, it was a statement of fact because you have shown yourself to be just that.  

It's amazing to me that anybody could possibly say with a straight face, "when I called you stupid, it was a statement of fact, but I understand why you felt insulted - you were too stupid to understand the difference" and NOT expect anybody to feel insulted. 🤔😅

Edited December 17, 2019 by Machariel

[DSorrow]

9 hours ago, cparks70402 said:

just to be clear i deleted the thread because of how toxic it was becoming. as the GM said in a previous post lets not name call people.

I understand your frustration, but you aren't really contributing to a non-toxic environment with comments such as "grow up":

 

On 12/16/2019 at 8:12 AM, cparks70402 said:

i think youre the only person who doesnt use any kind of facts to prove i was wrong. in your words im wrong for the sake of being wrong. grow up.

Similarly, dismissing evidence because you don't understand it doesn't come across as very constructive:

 

On 12/16/2019 at 8:18 AM, cparks70402 said:

ok this chart doesnt prove anything except that a malee attack used by a blaster does more damage than a brute? im guessing the higher the number the more damage output. so according to the chart bright and dark nova forms do more ranged damage than blasters, and scrappers do the same amount of damage as blasters. also no where on the chart does it account for each classes buffs or debuffs.

Finally, evading accountability when contrary evidence becomes overwhelming is a poor practice in general:

13 hours ago, cparks70402 said:

its a test someone told me to do.

I'm all for a good discussion, but if you want to have one too you can't hold others to a higher standard than yourself.

[siolfir]

11 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

30% buff, but actually that also scales with level and doesn't get to +30% until level 20.  At level 1 the vigilance solo damage buff for defenders is only 6%.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers#Vigilance

I sit corrected. That means that, like Corruptors, they also have to use a buff or debuff to pass Blasters. Alas, poor Defenders... no longer the level 1 ranged damage kings. A moment of silence, please.

 

You can tell how many Defenders I've made recently (but then, I've also only made 3 Corruptors on Homecoming). Even if I did I still probably wouldn't notice since I don't start monitoring combat attributes until later levels.

[Shred Monkey]

On 12/15/2019 at 1:20 AM, cparks70402 said:

i did a small test to see which one does more damage. i made a lvl 1 fire corr and fire blaster. i only attacked lvl 1 minions and killed 10 on each char. i added up the total damage each one did. the corr and blaster where both using fire blast and only that power. both where hitting for 8 damage on the 1st attack. the blaster was hitting for 9 damage on the 2nd attack. the corr seemed to proc the fire dot more often than the blaster and scourge was hitting for 16 damage. this test was also with no buffs from outside sources, or reds, only using the base damage of the attack.

 

the blasters total damage on 10 different lvl 1 minions was 229 damage.

the corr total damage done on 10 different lvl 1 minions was 322 damage.

 

so overall corr do quite a bit more damage than blasters. this doesnt account for buffs or debuffs that each class can give themselves. just the base of the attacks.

 

I'm not going to scroll through the whole thread to see if this was pointed out, but... um.. Let's say you pick 10 minions each with 30 hp.  10x30 = 300 pts of damage.    This calculation has nothing to do with what class you are playing, it's just how many hp your enemies have.

 

If you want to get real technical, killing them slowly will allow them to heal some, so your total  damage dealt will be increased by doing damage slower.

 

 

[Solarverse]

No...just...no.

[OrtRestave]

3 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

If you want to get real technical, killing them slowly will allow them to heal some, so your total  damage dealt will be increased by doing damage slower.

 

 

This is a very important point, and exactly the reason why the main benchmark for DPS is Pylon killing time rather than something like total damage done.