Pool Powers for Kheldian Alt Forms?

[Project129]

Perhaps I might be one of the few people that really look at the Kheldian HEATs and think 'When you really compare it to other AT's it doesn't quite measure up!' especially when the VEATs can be absurdly broken for very little work put into them (Leadership from their secondary and Pool is amazing for support). Honestly, it makes me sad when it boils down to it as the Dwarf Form for Peacebringer feels too squishy to compete with many high-end scrappers Or tanks for durability and the Squid Forms feel like a joke overall. But as I was toying with Mids numbers last night I kind of realized a lot of issues I seem to have with it could be alleviated by the simple implementation of Pool Powers into a build. With proper sets and slotting with the activation of Maneuvers, Tough, Weave, and Combat Jump's bonuses you would be looking at a White Dwarf with 30-ish defenses for M/R/AoE, 80-85% resistances for all but Psionic (which sits at 31%) and decent stats overall making it a decent off-tank or main tank if you are lacking one on the team. At the same time, with the same build and powers I just mentioned with the Bright Nova instead, it would allow you to make a decent blaster replacement for the team as they sit at the 30-ish defenses and sit anywhere from 25-40% resistances.

 

Mind you, this is merely with the Peacebringer I have toyed with numbers wise. I love the concept of a Kheldian AT, a kind of 'Be what you want' set that allows you to go tank or blaster at a whim and swaps between the two as the team needs. But I believe that perhaps it is a bit too weak as is, especially when you compare it to the VEATs answer and that something as simple as allowing the use of Pool Powers alongside their Alt Forms could be the single 'Buff' it needs to make it a truly Epic Archetype.

 

Sorry for the ramble here all, but I would like to hear others opinions on this as well. Maybe my suggestion is a little odd? Maybe there is a good reason it might be too broken if the powers are allowed?

Edited December 23, 2019 by Project129

[boggo2300]

/jranger

[Redlynne]

/jranger

[Project129]

Oh look, the box standard 'No without reason' that I am familiar with. It feels rather nostalgic to have people who just leave a short response and offer no constructive input.

Perhaps either of you would like to give proper reasons? It would be great to hear some actual input.

[Galaxy Brain]

@boggo2300, @Redlynne, at least give a bit more than that lol. 

[Redlynne]

/jranger

Quote

 

/jranger is a meme meaning no. JRanger was a poster on the Official Forums who would reply to ideas on the Suggestions and Ideas forum with long, descriptive posts listing the reason or reasons he disagreed with the original suggestion. When these descriptive posts went either ignored or disparaged by multiple suggestion-makers, he finally started responding to ideas he disagreed with by only stating "no" without further explanation.

 

Eventually, instead of saying "no", users started replying to posts by simply saying "/jranger" instead (the first instance being Memphis_Bill 9/21/07, since purged). Both actions were ultimately made actionable and "bannable" by Ex Libris[1]. Although it ultimately led to JRanger being banned from the Official Forums, the usage still sees some use on the PWNZ forums and at least once by Back Alley Brawler (since purged) after this rule was placed.

 

 

[Project129]

1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

/jranger

 

I am well aware of what it means.

However, you have yet to provide anything that would be even a reason for it to be considered a bad idea. At this point, I don't know if you are saying it just to say it or if you have a legitimate reason to be against such a basic thing granted to the HEATs. I would like to potentially hear your reasoning at least because as it stands it sounds like you disagree for no real reason at all.

[SeraphimKensai]

Honestly as someone who has logged a lot of hours on Kheldians over the years I'm not opposed to it. But I would much rather have some mez protection in a toggle for human form than anything.

[Project129]

1 minute ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Honestly as someone who has logged a lot of hours on Kheldians over the years I'm not opposed to it. But I would much rather have some mez protection in a toggle for human form than anything.

I would think both would be something to add into it. Maybe add some standard protections (Mez, KB, ect) to Quantum Shield? It would come slightly earlier than some other protections but I think it would be wise.

[siolfir]

As for mez protection, you could throw in a low value (mag 3-4, so easy to overwhelm and giving a reason to use Dwarf?) to the shield toggles - split between them, like in Bio, so one power doesn't cover everything? That way it's still something you have to build for...

 

I'm not against it, or against allowing pool toggles to be active in forms, but having a damage-and-resistance-capped Nova with mez protection from Clarion is already possible for Warshades, do they really need more?

[SwitchFade]

The reason you're getting multiple short replies is this:

 

Kheldians are extremely powerful, built properly. They were designed as such and are fine. There are a significant number of threads and posts detailing this, most with explanations and descriptions. If you build properly using keybinds they can do the following:

 

Perma 85% resist in all forms

Perm single to double build up putting you near damage cap

Heal/end recovery up every 15 seconds, filling to full

Built in free travel

Massive nova and 2 perma fluffy pets (ws)

Built in CC and secondary effects...

Basically, tankmage.

 

The list goes on. There's practically nothing needed to make a Kheldian OP, save for io sets.

 

Really, all they need is a damage cap increase to 400 from 300

 

The AT is epic and requires experience to unleash. But when you do unleash like the MF'in WS.....

 

Look out!

 

Thus, the Kheldian community becomes unreceptive to continually explaining the same details that already exist and require only an enthusiastic read of the AT sub-forum, hence the /jranger

 

In short, you're Kheldianing wrong =D

Edited December 23, 2019 by SwitchFade

[Project129]

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

The reason you're getting multiple short replies is this:

 

Kheldians are extremely powerful, built properly. They were designed as such and are fine. There are a significant number of threads and posts detailing this, most with explanations and descriptions. If you build properly using keybinds they can do the following:

 

Perma 85% resist in all forms

Perm single to double build up putting you near damage cap

Heal/end recovery up every 15 seconds, filling to full

Built in free travel

Massive nova and 2 perma fluffy pets (ws)

Built in CC and secondary effects...

Basically, tankmage.

 

The list goes on. There's practically nothing needed to make a Kheldian OP, save for io sets.

 

Really, all they need is a damage cap increase to 400 from 300

 

The AT is epic and requires experience to unleash. But when you do unleash like the MF'in WS.....

 

Look out!

 

Thus, the Kheldian community becomes unreceptive to continually explaining the same details that already exist and require only an enthusiastic read of the AT sub-forum, hence the /jranger

 

In short, you're Kheldianing wrong =D

Taking you point-by-point, I almost feel like most others may be wrong here.

 

01. Perma 85% resist in all forms.

I have not seen many boast this, claim this, or do this save for the perma-light PB's. To me, it's a lot like Granite Armor where I feel like the only power in that secondary for Stone Armor is Granite and most if not all stone players are expected to do that to be successful. If I am missing something or you have a build, I would love to hear about it and be proven wrong. Even when I force those numbers for something like my PB I lose a lot of accuracy and barely break the 200% line for it.

 

02. Perma Single to double build up.

Where do I begin. If it is something that once again relies on Hasten, perma light, ect, it falls into the first point as it now feels like "You need X to be successful. You can't deviate from X or else." is how I feel playing PB and hearing nothing but that from most Builders I have encountered who play PB. To me, it feels like it's a knee-capped build style where all PBs must be Perma Light (Or risk being SoL) and all Warshades have to do some Tri-Form juggling act.

 

03. Heal/End Recovery up every 15 seconds, filling to full.

Is this the Tri-Form war shade shenannigans or a perma-hasted light form?

 

04. Built in free travel

It really depends on how much you rely on and use the travel powers as is, but in comparison to VEATs let's be very blunt. Even an Arachnos Crab Spider, with only standard IOs, can reach 30% resistances on all but Psionics, give the team 20% defenses, 30% damage, and almost 30% To-Hit by just existing. This is all without having to break yourself, slot only into one power set, and rely purely on a recharge rotation of powers. It still feels like the Kheldians are nerfed in comparison as you NEED all of the IO's to make it compete with other classes.

 

05. Massive Nova, two fluffy pets.

Once again, I do ask you to disperse any of my disillusion with the fact that this sounds like it is something that works with a Perma Recharge. Or is it not? I don't do Warshades as I just never liked them myself so I would love some more input on this.

 

06. Built in CC

Is this something exclusive to the WS? Because the Built-in CC I see in the PB is very limited to KB with most of them being a more melee-centric build for Humans who really seem like they want to stay out of melee.

 

The more I hear the reasons the more questions I have and the more I look at it and think "This entire thing sounds like a train wreck if you need very specific things to make this work well in any capacity."

 

But given I am not a PB/WS Main and I always saw Warshades only being able to run a Tri-Form, face planting any other time they go out of it and only see Perma-Haste Perma-Light form PB's everywhere I cannot help but see it as such. From the outside looking in, it feels like they should still be allowed to use pool powers to make them far more useful for their alien forms, allowing you to balance out what roles you might wish and encourage more people to go into the AT. That is why I am offering the suggestion.

 

On the last note of the /jranger it doesn't quite matter if you've heard it before and roll your eyes at the concept of what they are suggesting. Honestly, when you bring it up it just feels like the person is saying it because they just disagree and have nothing to really add to the conversation. It isn't constructive and one could take the time to spend five seconds to at least offer a token reaction or reason at least as you clearly cared enough to respond.

 

Thank you though, Switchfade. I honestly appreciate the more constructive and informative response from you.

[Haijinx]

/jranger

[siolfir]

42 minutes ago, Project129 said:

Taking you point-by-point, I almost feel like most others may be wrong here.

 

01. Perma 85% resist in all forms.

I have not seen many boast this, claim this, or do this save for the perma-light PB's. To me, it's a lot like Granite Armor where I feel like the only power in that secondary for Stone Armor is Granite and most if not all stone players are expected to do that to be successful. If I am missing something or you have a build, I would love to hear about it and be proven wrong. Even when I force those numbers for something like my PB I lose a lot of accuracy and barely break the 200% line for it.

Perma-Eclipse or Perma-Light Form to get it in all forms, so yes - this is a recharge build. I think Dwarf can get there for most damage types with slotting and some set bonuses, but I haven't put any builds together to cap resistance in Dwarf form and that wouldn't qualify as "in all forms".

 

42 minutes ago, Project129 said:

02. Perma Single to double build up.

Where do I begin. If it is something that once again relies on Hasten, perma light, ect, it falls into the first point as it now feels like "You need X to be successful. You can't deviate from X or else." is how I feel playing PB and hearing nothing but that from most Builders I have encountered who play PB. To me, it feels like it's a knee-capped build style where all PBs must be Perma Light (Or risk being SoL) and all Warshades have to do some Tri-Form juggling act.

 

03. Heal/End Recovery up every 15 seconds, filling to full.

Is this the Tri-Form war shade shenannigans or a perma-hasted light form?

Eh... Stygian Circle for Warshades meets this with minimal slotting (base recharge is 30 sec and it feeds on the bodies around you), but either this part is not applicable to Peacebringers or I'm missing something.

 

42 minutes ago, Project129 said:

04. Built in free travel

It really depends on how much you rely on and use the travel powers as is, but in comparison to VEATs let's be very blunt. Even an Arachnos Crab Spider, with only standard IOs, can reach 30% resistances on all but Psionics, give the team 20% defenses, 30% damage, and almost 30% To-Hit by just existing. This is all without having to break yourself, slot only into one power set, and rely purely on a recharge rotation of powers. It still feels like the Kheldians are nerfed in comparison as you NEED all of the IO's to make it compete with other classes.

 

05. Massive Nova, two fluffy pets.

Once again, I do ask you to disperse any of my disillusion with the fact that this sounds like it is something that works with a Perma Recharge. Or is it not? I don't do Warshades as I just never liked them myself so I would love some more input on this.

The two fluffy pets on a Warshade is something you can do with just SOs and Hasten; you won't permanently have two at that level of recharge, but you'll have a good amount of time with two before the first one fades. I know this because I never made a build for my level 50 Warshade, and she just has SOs slotted until I decide what I want to focus on. In the post you quoted, it specifically mentioned that the fluffy pets were Warshade only, but both Kheld variants get the Nova clone.

 

The free travel power is a nice-to-have, because it doesn't cost a power pick. Granted, my level 50 Widow uses Ninja Run and a jetpack as her travel power(s) for the same reason, so it's a lot less useful than it used to be.

 

42 minutes ago, Project129 said:

06. Built in CC

Is this something exclusive to the WS? Because the Built-in CC I see in the PB is very limited to KB with most of them being a more melee-centric build for Humans who really seem like they want to stay out of melee.

Both Peacebringers and Warshades have a single target hold in their hardest hitting melee attack (Incandescent Strike, Gravity Well), and an AoE stun (Pulsar, Gravitic Emanation). Warshades also get Inky Aspect, which is an Oppressive Gloom clone, and Unchain Essence has a stun secondary effect. So Warshades have more options than Peacebringers, but you're overlooking the CC that Peacebringers have.

 

42 minutes ago, Project129 said:

The more I hear the reasons the more questions I have and the more I look at it and think "This entire thing sounds like a train wreck if you need very specific things to make this work well in any capacity."

 

But given I am not a PB/WS Main and I always saw Warshades only being able to run a Tri-Form, face planting any other time they go out of it and only see Perma-Haste Perma-Light form PB's everywhere I cannot help but see it as such. From the outside looking in, it feels like they should still be allowed to use pool powers to make them far more useful for their alien forms, allowing you to balance out what roles you might wish and encourage more people to go into the AT. That is why I am offering the suggestion.

You really don't need a specific thing to make the build work, though. As for juggling forms, in my opinion that's one of the fun parts of playing a Kheld, but there are plenty of human-form-only builds that will be effective for both ATs. Yes, double Mire is nice for Warshades, but the second one is short duration - staying at the damage cap for Nova form is mostly due to Nova containing an extra +45% damage combined with Sunless Mire and a low damage cap for EATs (including VEATs).

 

 

[boggo2300]

21 minutes ago, siolfir said:

The two fluffy pets on a Warshade is something you can do with just SOs and Hasten; you won't permanently have two at that level of recharge, but you'll have a good amount of time with two before the first one fades. I know this because I never made a build for my level 50 Warshade, and she just has SOs slotted until I decide what I want to focus on. In the post you quoted, it specifically mentioned that the fluffy pets were Warshade only, but both Kheld variants get the Nova clone.

You don't even need Hasten to get two active 😉

[siolfir]

4 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

You don't even need Hasten to get two active 😉

Yeah, but I don't remember how long they lasted after summoning them (3 minutes I think?) and you definitely will have two for a longer time period if you have Hasten.

[Razor Cure]

4 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Perma 85% resist in all forms

Perm single to double build up putting you near damage cap

Heal/end recovery up every 15 seconds, filling to full

Built in free travel

Massive nova and 2 perma fluffy pets (ws)

Built in CC and secondary effects...

Basically, tankmage.

Let's be honest..how many khleds have all this? Or more to the point..how many have it without spending X amount on it?

Saying PBs are fine, because you CAN get that, at super extended maximum, is hardly the same as saying a Khled on SOs.

[boggo2300]

1 hour ago, Project129 said:

Taking you point-by-point, I almost feel like most others may be wrong here.

 

01. Perma 85% resist in all forms.

I have not seen many boast this, claim this, or do this save for the perma-light PB's. To me, it's a lot like Granite Armor where I feel like the only power in that secondary for Stone Armor is Granite and most if not all stone players are expected to do that to be successful. If I am missing something or you have a build, I would love to hear about it and be proven wrong. Even when I force those numbers for something like my PB I lose a lot of accuracy and barely break the 200% line for it.

 

02. Perma Single to double build up.

Where do I begin. If it is something that once again relies on Hasten, perma light, ect, it falls into the first point as it now feels like "You need X to be successful. You can't deviate from X or else." is how I feel playing PB and hearing nothing but that from most Builders I have encountered who play PB. To me, it feels like it's a knee-capped build style where all PBs must be Perma Light (Or risk being SoL) and all Warshades have to do some Tri-Form juggling act.

 

03. Heal/End Recovery up every 15 seconds, filling to full.

Is this the Tri-Form war shade shenannigans or a perma-hasted light form?

 

04. Built in free travel

It really depends on how much you rely on and use the travel powers as is, but in comparison to VEATs let's be very blunt. Even an Arachnos Crab Spider, with only standard IOs, can reach 30% resistances on all but Psionics, give the team 20% defenses, 30% damage, and almost 30% To-Hit by just existing. This is all without having to break yourself, slot only into one power set, and rely purely on a recharge rotation of powers. It still feels like the Kheldians are nerfed in comparison as you NEED all of the IO's to make it compete with other classes.

 

05. Massive Nova, two fluffy pets.

Once again, I do ask you to disperse any of my disillusion with the fact that this sounds like it is something that works with a Perma Recharge. Or is it not? I don't do Warshades as I just never liked them myself so I would love some more input on this.

 

06. Built in CC

Is this something exclusive to the WS? Because the Built-in CC I see in the PB is very limited to KB with most of them being a more melee-centric build for Humans who really seem like they want to stay out of melee.

 

The more I hear the reasons the more questions I have and the more I look at it and think "This entire thing sounds like a train wreck if you need very specific things to make this work well in any capacity."

 

But given I am not a PB/WS Main and I always saw Warshades only being able to run a Tri-Form, face planting any other time they go out of it and only see Perma-Haste Perma-Light form PB's everywhere I cannot help but see it as such. From the outside looking in, it feels like they should still be allowed to use pool powers to make them far more useful for their alien forms, allowing you to balance out what roles you might wish and encourage more people to go into the AT. That is why I am offering the suggestion.

 

On the last note of the /jranger it doesn't quite matter if you've heard it before and roll your eyes at the concept of what they are suggesting. Honestly, when you bring it up it just feels like the person is saying it because they just disagree and have nothing to really add to the conversation. It isn't constructive and one could take the time to spend five seconds to at least offer a token reaction or reason at least as you clearly cared enough to respond.

 

Thank you though, Switchfade. I honestly appreciate the more constructive and informative response from you.

I have a Human only WS who has no issues staying with a team, though he's nowhere near as much fun as a tri-form, very little is.

 

NONE of my Khelds (and I have at least 15) has Hasten, not a one of them, it's unnecessary.

 

Jranger doesn't mean you disagree and have nothing to add to the conversation, it means you have replied to the conversation so many times previously, and the same thing keeps coming up with no additional reasons to support it.

[boggo2300]

2 minutes ago, siolfir said:

Yeah, but I don't remember how long they lasted after summoning them (3 minutes I think?) and you definitely will have two for a longer time period if you have Hasten.

true, but I never use hasten on my Khelds (I rarely use hasten on anything actually) and by the time you top out with IO's you can get damn close to three up (not quite, but close)

[Quindorrian]

Being relatively new to the PB archetype, I get the impression that the OP hasn't gotten to high enough level yet and hasn't used light form.  I went from being unsure if I would like the class to it being my favorite class in the whole game within 5 levels once I understood how to play it in the higher levels.  Clearly, once someone understands how to play the class, they will see why the extraneous stuff is no longer needed.  

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Op heres the thing. Khelds were created in the pre ED era. and indeed were made with the idea that at high end they would possess perma lightform either via heavily slotting  light form with recharge, or by a mix of recharge and perma hasten which was pretty sop for a click heavy build in that era when everyone could perma their end tank mode.

 

It was a choice the devs made for PB to be able to keep theirs when the general ATs got that taken away. Now days it demands at least a heavy investment in global recharge sets ( hasten /perma hasten isnt really a must for perma light form but makes it easier and quicker to get) And why wouldnt a PB want Lightform as it includes CC protection and makes the dwarf form obsolete( this to wasnt an accident, the forms actually were by design meant to be used more as interim powers while leveling and not be part of a lvl 50 tool kit, shades actually got way more use out of their tri forms back then as it let them get fly and decent blasting, were as once a PB can nuke there is no reason to ever go nova form again.))

 

With pools a human form kheld still can be somewhat diverse from others, but unlike other ATs kheldians are meant to be pretty samey because they are all part of a single race with natural powers all possess. And the forms are just shadows of previous hosts. Logically they should be substandard when one considers that.

 

So especially when it comes to a PB, wanting to make their forms better is really just pointless. Too much they become OP, Too little and there is no point in tweeking them in the first place, and there really isnt a just right because a full powered PB is very mucha  force to be reckoned with. Frankly Id just love to see their dmg cap raised to that of blasters and Id be happy.

[Galaxy Brain]

Just a note, you need 234% recharge to perma light form. At that point you may as well get the extra 40% to perma hasten as odds are you have it to get that high

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Just a note, you need 234% recharge to perma light form.

That's assuming you've only got "permanent" recharge buffs helping you get there and no Force Feedback procs.

 

Light Form is a 300s recharge on a 90s duration.

300 / 90 = 3.3334 = +233.34% recharge buffing from all sources to perma.

 

However, each Force Feedback proc (functionally) applies a -5 to the 300 before dividing by 90 in order to compute recharge needed.  You can then generate a matrix of possibilities for how many Force Feedback procs are needed within the 90s duration to be able to perma Light Form so as to "close the perma gap" due to insufficient recharge.  Note that since it is not possible to get Force Feedback to (usefully) proc more often than once per 5 seconds, there is a theoretical upper limit of 18 Force Feedback procs per 90s that can make a useful difference in how quickly Light Form recharges.

 

Number of Force Feedback procs per 90s to make Light Form perma at various total recharge values from all sources:

1. (300 - (1 * 5)) / 90 = 3.2778 = +227.78%
2. (300 - (2 * 5)) / 90 = 3.2222 = +222.22%
3. (300 - (3 * 5)) / 90 = 3.1667 = +216.67% (note: this means 1 Force Feedback proc every ~30s on average every 90s, which is pathetically easy to achieve)
4. (300 - (4 * 5)) / 90 = 3.1111 = +211.11%
5. (300 - (5 * 5)) / 90 = 3.0556 = +205.56%
6. (300 - (6 * 5)) / 90 = 3.0000 = +200.00% (note: this means 1 Force Feedback proc every ~15s on average every 90s, which ought to be routinely achievable)
7. (300 - (7 * 5)) / 90 = 2.9444 = +194.44%
8. (300 - (8 * 5)) / 90 = 2.8889 = +188.89%
9. (300 - (9 * 5)) / 90 = 2.8333 = +183.33% (note: this means 1 Force Feedback proc every ~10s on average every 90s, which can be difficult to sustain)
10. (300 - (10 * 5)) / 90 = 2.7778 = +177.78%
11. (300 - (11 * 5)) / 90 = 2.7222 = +172.22%
12. (300 - (12 * 5)) / 90 = 2.6667 = +166.67%
13. (300 - (13 * 5)) / 90 = 2.6111 = +161.11%
14. (300 - (14 * 5)) / 90 = 2.5556 = +155.56%
15. (300 - (15 * 5)) / 90 = 2.5000 = +150.00%
16. (300 - (16 * 5)) / 90 = 2.4444 = +144.44%
17. (300 - (17 * 5)) / 90 = 2.3889 = +138.89%
18. (300 - (18 * 5)) / 90 = 2.3333 = +133.33%

Since Light Form is a minimum Level 38 power, it can only be accessed at Exemplar Levels 33+ ... and the Scaling Modifiers for enhancement levels does not begin to drop until reaching Level 1-31.  This means that if you slot 50+5 IOs into Light Form then Light Form will ALWAYS gain the benefit of the maximum enhancement value at all Exemplar Levels relevant to Light Form (because you lose access to the power before getting low enough to start losing enhancement value).  So don't attune frankenslots in Light Form/Eclipse (unless if you're slotting for set bonuses) ... boost them!

 

Light Form can be 3-slotted with Resistance/Recharge set IOs from Titanium Coating, Aegis and Unbreakable Guard for +94.56% recharge enhancement and 81.81% Resistance (just shy of the 85% cap).  With an additional +105.44% global recharge from set bonuses (so total +200% recharge on Light Form) you would only need 6 Force Feedback procs per 90s in order to be able to perma Light Form WITHOUT NEEDING HASTEN.  Being able to rack up 6 Force Feedback procs within 90s sounds like a reasonable assumption when using AoE attacks with Force Feedback procs slotted into them.

 

 

 

And yes, you better believe that this analysis is making me question my slotting priorities for my own Kheldian builds (Peacebringer in particular!) since if I can manage to pull Hasten OUT of my Kheldian builds and still have an expectation of being able to perma Light Form/Eclipse I would totally do it.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Redlynne

[Razor Cure]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:33 AM, SwitchFade said:

Kheldians are extremely powerful, built properly. They were designed as such and are fine.

Meaning..a not quite 'proper' khled is gonna suck?

Let's be serious, an AT that NEEDS perma capped resists to be good..is a pretty shitty design.

On 12/24/2019 at 6:33 AM, SwitchFade said:

The list goes on. There's practically nothing needed to make a Kheldian OP, save for io sets.

Meaning..before IOs, they sucked? Right? Since none of that perma t9, perma build up stuff was possible. Game is still balanced around SOs, and assuming EVERY khled is gonna trick themselves out is kinda silly.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

Sweet stuff

TBF, that is still 233.34% with FF 😉

 

But yes, stacking FF procs on KB heavy sets is gahlike