Recluse and "Grounded"

[Cynical_mage]

Greetings all

 

This is an issue that has vexed me since before this current iteration, and continues on with this one, but is there something particularly bugged with Grounded in the Electric Armor set and Recluse in the MLTF/STF? I had a build up to mag 21 KB pro (current build is mag 18) and was still getting knocked on my keister by Recluse's short range energy attack.  I am on the ground and not hopping around, so unless the KB from that attack is mag 25 or higher I can't figure out why this is happening. 

 

Any ideas or knowledge I missed in my searches?

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Cynical_mage

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, Cynical_mage said:

Greetings all

 

This is an issue that has vexed me since before this current iteration, and continues on with this one, but is there something particularly bugged with Grounded in the Electric Armor set and Recluse in the MLTF/STF? I had a build up to mag 21 KB pro (current build is mag 18) and was still getting knocked on my keister by Recluse's short range energy attack.  I am on the ground and not hopping around, so unless the KB from that attack is mag 25 or higher I can't figure out why this is happening. 

 

Any ideas or knowledge I missed in my searches?

 

Thanks

 

 

Not sure, but I've experienced this on Elec Armor as well.  So I just hover low to the ground, it cuts you a flip but doesn't KB.

[Sura]

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockback/Enemies_with_Knockback_Powers

 

On that page Recluse shows with Knockback from 40-54.  I'm not totally sure what the different entries mean, but if they're correct the minimum he's hitting with is 40.

[Haijinx]

40? Lol.  So this is going to affect a lot more than just Ele armor.

 

They are probably in better shape than Dark or Fire. 

[Call Me Awesome]

8 minutes ago, Sura said:

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockback/Enemies_with_Knockback_Powers

 

On that page Recluse shows with Knockback from 40-54.  I'm not totally sure what the different entries mean, but if they're correct the minimum he's hitting with is 40.

Is this new?  I don't remember him having a KB that troubled an Invuln, Stone or Shield tanker.  Sorry, I've never tanked him with anything else, and not at all since Live.

[Sura]

1 hour ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Is this new?  I don't remember him having a KB that troubled an Invuln, Stone or Shield tanker.  Sorry, I've never tanked him with anything else, and not at all since Live.

Honestly, no idea, sorry.  I just remembered looking at that page for something.  🙂

[Mikewho]

1 hour ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Is this new?  I don't remember him having a KB that troubled an Invuln, Stone or Shield tanker.  Sorry, I've never tanked him with anything else, and not at all since Live.

Those sets also get huge knockback resistance, which works differently than other resistances. Effectively it makes you almost immune to knockback (with a few exceptions)

[Cynical_mage]

13 minutes ago, Mikewho said:

Those sets also get huge knockback resistance, which works differently than other resistances. Effectively it makes you almost immune to knockback (with a few exceptions)

I just went through Mids and saw what you were talking about.  Unfortunately, it seems the only way for Elec Armor then to get past it while standing on the ground is Power Surge, which is too situational for me.  So, between the mag 40 KB that Sura pointed out, and until 10000% KB resist becomes an IO unique I can slot, it looks like I'm stuck on fly tanking LR.  Thanks for chiming in all.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Cynical_mage

[Sarrate]

2 hours ago, Sura said:

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockback/Enemies_with_Knockback_Powers

 

On that page Recluse shows with Knockback from 40-54.  I'm not totally sure what the different entries mean, but if they're correct the minimum he's hitting with is 40.

Oh, it's even better than that. Since Lord Recluse is a higher level, the purple patch increases its effect on players.

 

That's not the last of it, either. Assuming that Paragon Wiki is accurate (I used to be good at sleuthing City of Data, but not so much now that it's down), the Red Tower also provides +Status Effect (Knockback, Disorient). How much is uncertain, but considering how strong the other towers' effects are, it wouldn't surprise me if it was another +100%.

 

8 minutes ago, Mikewho said:

Those sets also get huge knockback resistance, which works differently than other resistances. Effectively it makes you almost immune to knockback (with a few exceptions)

Bingo. Most status protection toggles provide +10 mag knockback protection and +10,000% knockback resistance (surely a typo in their spreadsheet where 1 == 100%, but they entered 100, thus 10,000%). The resistance alone basically reduces all knockback to 0, so the knockback protection isn't doing much. The only things that pierce it are unresistible knockback with a mag greater than 10.

 

There's probably some out there in the game, but it's very rare.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Sarrate said:

(I used to be good at sleuthing City of Data, but not so much now that it's down)

But it's not (completely) lost to us ...

[Sura]

4 hours ago, Cynical_mage said:

I just went through Mids and saw what you were talking about.  Unfortunately, it seems the only way for Elec Armor then to get past it while standing on the ground is Power Surge, which is too situational for me.  So, between the mag 40 KB that Sura pointed out, and until 10000% KB resist becomes an IO unique I can slot, it looks like I'm stuck on fly tanking LR.  Thanks for chiming in all.

40 is really high.  There are a bunch of Knockback Protection IO's you could try, but it'd be a lot to even get to 40.  Stacking break free's might work; I think they have knockback protection.  It used to be that base Empowerment Stations had a hour long knockback protection buff, not sure if that's still a thing.  Acrobatics also adds to the total, but not enough, and you probably don't want to respec.

 

It's a pretty edge case.  Maybe try buying some big ol' breakfree's and check for the Empowerment station thing.  Those seem like the easiest things to check on.

 

🙂

[@Ghost]

Break Frees would work, but you'd need a whole lot. A small is only 5 points of protection, and a large is 10. Given that the tower might be boosting that mag 40 even higher, it seems way more efficient to just pack a few purples (12.5% on a small, 33% on a large) and not get hit in the first place.

[Mr. Vee]

My /electric brute is fine on him, mainly because i taunt him from the air with my jetpack and he keeps running up the pole trying to get at me. Once it's time to actually fight him and I land he'll occasionally get a kb past my defense and all the debuffs and 20+ points but it's generally just once and hardly an issue. 

[Infinitum]

15 hours ago, Sarrate said:

Oh, it's even better than that. Since Lord Recluse is a higher level, the purple patch increases its effect on players.

 

That's not the last of it, either. Assuming that Paragon Wiki is accurate (I used to be good at sleuthing City of Data, but not so much now that it's down), the Red Tower also provides +Status Effect (Knockback, Disorient). How much is uncertain, but considering how strong the other towers' effects are, it wouldn't surprise me if it was another +100%.

 

Bingo. Most status protection toggles provide +10 mag knockback protection and +10,000% knockback resistance (surely a typo in their spreadsheet where 1 == 100%, but they entered 100, thus 10,000%). The resistance alone basically reduces all knockback to 0, so the knockback protection isn't doing much. The only things that pierce it are unresistible knockback with a mag greater than 10.

 

There's probably some out there in the game, but it's very rare.

Jane Temblor in the Sutter TF is the only one I've seen KB my shield and invul and even that's not 100% every time.

[Doomguide2005]

And yes the base empowerment station can be used.  I've done it for some of my lowbie squishy types.  Don't recall offhand what the protection mag is. It has been even longer since I've looked at Kinetics but as I recall Increased Density offers Knockback protection as well.  And I'm still learning about Incarnate powers but I'll bet one (or more) of them offers protection.

[Sarrate]

22 hours ago, Redlynne said:

But it's not (completely) lost to us ...

Ah yes, the Internet Archive once again to save the day! I've seen that trick in the past, and it's definitely better than nothing, but it's also not complete. (Last time I was using it I believe I was trying to find the Irradiated Ground pseudo pet and ended up with a dead link. :\)

[Redlynne]

59 minutes ago, Sarrate said:

it's also not complete.

No, it's not.  I think once you get more than about 3-4 links deep it just isn't recorded in the archive ... but it's still way better than nothing.

[Snarky]

On 1/29/2020 at 4:46 PM, Mikewho said:

Those sets also get huge knockback resistance, which works differently than other resistances. Effectively it makes you almost immune to knockback (with a few exceptions)

I am not sure of the numbers but from all my years playing invul the only thing i remember knocking me back is Brawler and Marauder and some really crazy explosions that sent everyone else to the moon. Any KB is surprising on a Invul

 

now if i could just get the out of shape old lady walking past me in AP to not push me around like i was her shopping cart...

Edited February 3, 2020 by Snarky

[Hedgefund]

On 2/3/2020 at 4:37 PM, Snarky said:

I am not sure of the numbers but from all my years playing invul the only thing i remember knocking me back is Brawler and Marauder and some really crazy explosions that sent everyone else to the moon. Any KB is surprising on a Invul

 

now if i could just get the out of shape old lady walking past me in AP to not push me around like i was her shopping cart...

You should meet Statesman (I assume he's available for an AE arc).  He'll give an Invul tank some frequent flier miles.

[Doomguide2005]

Just got back to 50 and incarnate trials so memories are a bit foggy but there's an AV (on Live) that for a while laid down trip mines like crazy and my empath eventual resorted to dropping 4 kb protect IO's (-16 mag) in her build so she could stay upright in the mission involving him.  Hard to do anything when you get bounced around the from one mine to the next non-stop. 

[Hedgefund]

If you're just looking for temporary kb protection then you get 10 points from the base empowerment buff for 90 minutes and another 4 from the temp buff from p2w.  Yeah that's 2.5M for an hour but I'd rather do that then respec.