Which combo does the most -Res

[You]

Just out of interest, which combo does the most -Res?

 

Thanks!

[Without_Pause]

Without looking it up and it being Sat. morning, Storm/sonic defender has to be up there. The answer will be some /sonic defender though.

[Gulbasaur]

With a teammate you can put the buff aura on a sonic resonance defender can maintain 60% RES debuff pretty much permanently with minimal investment. The sonic blast set adds on another 20-40% per attack. Slap the aura on your tank and you're golden.

 

Solo, you'd be looking at a storm/sonic defender running perma Freezing Rain (35%). Dark/ and rad/ defenders (30%) aren't far behind. Cold/ and thermal/ can both do 30% res debuff, but on a very long recharge and not until L32.

 

tldr: Teamed: sonic/sonic defender. Solo: storm/sonic defender.

[Carnifax]

Remember Stormies and Darks can also stack their patches. Because each is essentially a summoned entity with a debuff aura each entity can apply its own debuff. Sleet from Cold can do the same I guess but I dunno what the recharge is.

 

Rads is a toggle cast by you and Times is a debuff also originating from you so cant self stack.

 

Trick arrow can layer disruptions but not acid arrow. Traps can, I think get two mortars down.

 

So for long AV fights Storm / Sonic. 

[Bopper]

Single target or AoE? I know a /sonic defender can reach ~100% on a single target without procs. Just need a crazy amount of recharge.

[Gulbasaur]

52 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

So for long AV fights Storm / Sonic. 

I'd say it depends on what your uptime is for double-stacked patches. Sonic resonance can maintain 60% in a team at all times, while storm alternates between 35% and 70%. You'd need to get Freezing Rain's recharge down to under 7ish seconds to keep both patches up permanently. Recharge is capped so you can't get FR down to lower than 12 seconds, I think. So, you'd be at 70% -res for three seconds every twelve seconds and 35% for the other nine seconds, with perfect play and not taking cast time into account because I'm tired. 

 

I could be wrong, though. 

 

Over a long fight if you have a teammate in melee range, I still think sonic resonance comes out on top. If you're trying to solo AVs, then storm would win. 

 

So it comes down to teamed vs solo and how much of your build you want to devote to recharge. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Gulbasaur

[Carnifax]

Didnt know Sonic was 60% all of the time.

 

FR is weird though. The actual debuff lingers for 30 seconds (rather than disappearing after a few seconds out of the patch) so that may help.stacking it. 

[Bopper]

Cold can stack its Sleet to make up a perma -60% resistance patch (assuming you can get 400% recharge out of the power. Plus, it has Heatloss, which can bring that total up to -90% for 30 second bursts every 90 seconds or so.

 

I'm guessing a Cold/Sonic defender with weaken resolve (with achilles proc) will put up the best resistance debuffs 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Bopper

[Gulbasaur]

18 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

Didnt know Sonic was 60% all of the time.

 

There's ST debuff and an aura you can put on a character - it's like rad's toggle auras but centred around an ally. Basically, it gives your tank a 30% -res aura in addition to anything else you do. Sonic resonance is a better set than most people give it credit for. 

 

8 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Cold can stack its Sleet to make up a perma -60% resistance patch (assuming you can get 400% recharge out of the power.

Can you get the 60% permanent or just the patch? I assumed it worked like freezing rain where you got a 15 second debuff on a 12 second timer (with 400 recharge), so you only actually get 3 seconds (or less, with casting) of double debuff. 

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, Gulbasaur said:

Can you get the 60% permanent or just the patch? I assumed it worked like freezing rain where you got a 15 second debuff on a 12 second timer (with 400 recharge), so you only actually get 3 seconds (or less, with casting) of double debuff. 

According to Mids and the in game description details, both Freezing Rain and Sleet have 30 second durations

[Gulbasaur]

4 minutes ago, Bopper said:

According to Mids and the in game description details, both Freezing Rain and Sleet have 30 second durations

Derp. I was going of City of Data, which says 15. Thanks. 

[siolfir]

As a correction to an earlier post:

1 hour ago, Gulbasaur said:

Cold/ and thermal/ can both do 30% res debuff, but on a very long recharge and not until L32.

Defenders get Sleet at level 26, which has the same uptime as Freezing Rain. Heat Loss (at 32) will stack with it to get you 60% on a long recharge.

 

If you're really bored, Heat Loss also uses a pseudopet and you could throw Burnout in there since you'll have endurance recovery to spare if you just want a high -resistance number to hit -120% from double Sleet + double Heat Loss.

[Coyote]

3 hours ago, Bopper said:

According to Mids and the in game description details, both Freezing Rain and Sleet have 30 second durations

 

That's right, but it's misleading. The DEBUFFS from FR and Sleet last 30 seconds. The actual rain patch also lasts 15 seconds. So, if you can keep the target in the patch for the entire duration, you get up to 45 seconds of debuffing, making it pretty easy to permanently double-stack at perma-Hasten levels of Recharge.

 

Also, a Storm Defender trying for max -Res can put the Achilles proc in Tornado, and since you'll have 2 of those out, even with the lower aura chances to proc, you'll still get some decent debuffing out of that. Add in 3 Lightning Storms with the Annihilation proc in there for extra -Res. Not sure if the OP wanted to know sets where IOs make a difference.

[Sovera]

I was surprised at the off-the-path -res source: StJ/Bio Scrapper.

 

- 7.5% from Rib Cracker

- Annihilation -res proc (12.5%) in Spinning Strike (part of the ST rotation anyway)

- Achiles' Heel -res (20%) in Shin Breaker.

- 7.5% from Evolving Armor

- Fury of the Gladiator -res (20%) in Genetic Corruption.

 

Now, it's not a Sonic Defender, but, still 😄

[csr]

I dug up a few old logs from vintage CoH for my Cold/Sonic Def.  Adjusting proc rates to HC and applying the debuffs for each hit he would average about 138% -Res in long AV fights.  Roughly 62% from attacks, 58% from Sleet and 9% each from the AH proc in Infrigidate and from Heat Loss.  Note that that is a well IOed build, but with no purples and the only Incarnate ability a T3 Spiritual Partial Radial Alpha (he was my second to last 50).

[Bopper]

8 hours ago, csr said:

I dug up a few old logs from vintage CoH for my Cold/Sonic Def.  Adjusting proc rates to HC and applying the debuffs for each hit he would average about 138% -Res in long AV fights.  Roughly 62% from attacks, 58% from Sleet and 9% each from the AH proc in Infrigidate and from Heat Loss.  Note that that is a well IOed build, but with no purples and the only Incarnate ability a T3 Spiritual Partial Radial Alpha (he was my second to last 50).

You should be able to squeeze out more -Res from your single target attack chain. I know a Screech-shriek-shout-shriek can reach 91.5% on average and only requires a little be more recharge than does having perma-Hasten (279%). There are a few other more optimal chains, but they require some crazy edge of the envelope type of recharge. I'll have to go back and look to see what can be achieved with procs and cold powers added into the chain.

[You]

Is the max -Res rotation: Screech-shriek-shout-shriek?

[Bopper]

Ran some crude analysis, but it looks like you can average ~150% debuff with Screech, Shriek, Scream, Weaken Resolve (with proc), and Sleet (with procs). Throw in the occasional Dreadful Wail (with proc) and Heat Loss (with proc) for some occasionally higher numbers.

[csr]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

You should be able to squeeze out more -Res from your single target attack chain. I know a Screech-shriek-shout-shriek can reach 91.5% on average and only requires a little be more recharge than does having perma-Hasten (279%). There are a few other more optimal chains, but they require some crazy edge of the envelope type of recharge. I'll have to go back and look to see what can be achieved with procs and cold powers added into the chain.

I was expecting about -80% from attacks.  Using Infrigidate regularly instead of an attack was costing me about 8% -Res.  So that estimate would have been close to the estimate I get if I replace Infrigidate with an attack when I can (about a combined -79% instead of -71%).

 

About 13% of my time was used casting Sleet and Heat Loss.  So that's going to eat into that 91.5%.  As will that 5% miss chance (I calculated my -Res off of hits in the combat log).  You're going to lose around 16.5% Res to those, leaving you at 75% or so.  Pretty much the same as my chain of Shriek-Scream-Shriek-Shout.

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, You said:

Is the max -Res rotation: Screech-shriek-shout-shriek?

It is not, but it is an easily achievable chain using only sonic attacks. That chain gets you 91.5% with a total of +279% recharge in the power. If you can reach about +375% (400% is max), then Screech-Shriek-Scream-Shriek, and Screech-Scream-Shriek-Scream over takes it.

 

But when we add Weaken Resolve, things change.

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, csr said:

I was expecting about -80% from attacks.  Using Infrigidate regularly instead of an attack was costing me about 8% -Res.  So that estimate would have been close to the estimate I get if I replace Infrigidate with an attack when I can (about a combined -79% instead of -71%).

 

About 13% of my time was used casting Sleet and Heat Loss.  So that's going to eat into that 91.5%.  As will that 5% miss chance (I calculated my -Res off of hits in the combat log).  You're going to lose around 16.5% Res to those, leaving you at 75% or so.  Pretty much the same as my chain of Shriek-Scream-Shriek-Shout.

Fair point about factoring in misses. Ultimately, instead of doing napkin math (or rather excel spreadsheet math), I should write a script that prioritizes attacks and simulates various chains while factoring in tohit mechanics and various recharge amounts. I've done similar stuff with cascading defense, I dont see why I couldnt do something for this. 

 

That being said...I probably won't lol. That's a lot of work for something that would be purely academic and not necessarily replicate real gameplay.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Bopper

[csr]

9 hours ago, You said:

Is the max -Res rotation: Screech-shriek-shout-shriek?

It probably is for very high recharge and using just Sonic attacks.  The average -Res per activation (-20% * dur / ArcanaTime act) for the attacks are:

1. Dreadful Wail -189.4%
2. Screech -139.9%
3. Shriek -84.2%
4. Scream -75.8%
5. Shout -68.9%
6. Howl -63.8%

 

That gives you a rough priority ranking.  How things fit together makes a big difference though.

Edited February 9, 2020 by csr
Corrected for Bopper's analysis.

[csr]

39 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Fair point about factoring in misses. Ultimately, instead of doing napkin math (or rather excel spreadsheet math), I should write a script that prioritizes attacks and simulates various chains while factoring in tohit mechanics and various recharge amounts. I've done similar stuff with cascading defense, I dont see why I couldnt do something for this. 

 

That being said...I probably won't lol. That's a lot of work for something that would be purely academic and not necessarily replicate real gameplay.

That's why I used the logs to start with.  However, those logs were skewed, as I was maximizing my own combined damage/mitigation rather than going for max -Res while sololing AVs (Psi CWK, BM and Bobcat).  I don't think it's worth the effort to work up a sim, as who is really going to go all out for -Res?  A Cold Def has other things to do that are more useful; such as casting Benumb. Hasten, maximizing the value of Heat Loss' END value, etc.

Edited February 9, 2020 by csr

[You]

Does it worth taking Weaken Resolve on a Defender?

 

Does the same power from Sonic stacks -Res on its own?

 

Thanks again!

 

[Bopper]

27 minutes ago, You said:

Does it worth taking Weaken Resolve on a Defender?

 

Does the same power from Sonic stacks -Res on its own?

 

Thanks again!

 

Yes and yes... but only take weaken Resolve if it fits your build. Dont need to chase something if you have needs elsewhere.