Time/Dual Pistols/Dark "No Escape" Build

[Sapphire Lotus]

Thanks for the clarification!

 

Oh! What I was trying to convey was she listed 4 separate builds for for different purposes. I was trying to confirm if there was a way to unlock more than 2 build slots per character or in order to swap to anything more than 2 builds in that one would require enhancement unslotters.

 

 

Hi there! I remember you from way back, many of your posts on the old forums. I had some questions regarding your builds. What does SLE stand for? Is there a way to get more than 2 builds for a character? or do you just buy a metric boatload of enhancement unslotters to test out these other builds?

Just test builds on the beta server you can level to 50 instantly by typing a command and give yourself whatever enhancements you want with another.

 

There's no way to have more than two builds on one character. The poster you were replying to said they tweaked the build every couple months, so these are just different iterations of that one character's build.

[Linea]

You can have 3 builds per level 50+3 Incarnate.

 

I'm just guessing here, but It's probably something like:

- First unlocks at level 0

- Second unlocks at level 50?

- Third unlocks at level 50+3?

 

I'll eventually rebuild 3 of the 4 or 5 new versions.  Standard Offense, SLE STF, and ... I'm not sure, probably, the icap build since it also buffs others more strongly.

 

If you want all the versions, you'd have to build two copies. Once upon a time, I had 4 copies, 2 as Def, 1 as Cor, and 1 as Petless Thugs MM.  ...  Similar to the problem I have with a Crab/Huntsman, unless you like fugly arms, you have to build a pair.

 

 

SLE STF means Smashing Lethal Energy emphasis, meant specifically to take on a +4 Lord Recluse (toe to toe the hard way)  in the STF/MLTF.  You need 75+defense SLE to face +4 LR in the STF/MLTF ... that build running temps can hit 125ish defense SLE for about 90 minutes (75 ish defense otherwise).  Chances are he'll get in a lucky double or triple hit long before 90m.  I can take single hits fairly easily, I can even take double hits unless something goes wrong.  I can NOT take triple hits.  EX: one run he hit me, kb'd me, I land, he hits me again just as I land, I'm KBd so I can't even use inspirations, the third swing misses, I stand up and recover before the 4th.  After the second hit I was sitting at about 15% health, not a chance of surviving if the third swing had hit, and KBd I had no chance to react till it was all over.  I got lucky.  He gets lucky sometimes too.  I die once about every 3 runs.  As an afterthought: The Endurance Drain is the most dangerous attack.  I struggle with endurance, blue candy, debuff resists, Recovery Serums, and anything else I can manage.  And every time at one point or another I'm struggling repeatedly with the blue bar.

 

 

[samodaje]

Thank you very, very much :) It did clear up all I needed to know about kin/dp :)

i'll follow up with another question:

 

I did notice you didn't put any incarnates in your build. May I know why?

I'd love to hear your suggestions for it as well.

 

Thanks again. LvL 33 atm and having a ton of fun with it. Only endurance is giving me a hard time, but we're time master, we'll bend it in our favor ;)

[Redlynne]

Thank you very, very much :) It did clear up all I needed to know about kin/dp :)

 

Knowledge shared results in understanding multiplied (usually).  Pass it on.

 

 

 

i'll follow up with another question:

 

I did notice you didn't put any incarnates in your build. May I know why?

I'd love to hear your suggestions for it as well.

 

My Time/Dual Pistols Defender ... Sidhe Bang ... is currently a Level 5 Loyalist in Praetoria.

Why?

Because it seems I spend more time "playing the forums" than I do playing the actual game ... and I've got NINE ALTS TO FEED ... and I'm not exactly in a rush to powerlevel my way on up to Incarnate Trials.

 

So it's going to "take me awhile" to get up to Level 50, and my innate knowledge of Incarnate options has atrophied pretty severely in the past (almost) 7 years from what I knew back in Issue 23.  In other words, I'm hardly "qualified" to pontificate on the merits of Incarnate slotting options right now, since my personal experience of them is mostly lost at this point.  Fortunately, there are other sources in these forums who can discuss the merits of Incarnate options better than I can.

 

 

 

Thanks again. LvL 33 atm and having a ton of fun with it. Only endurance is giving me a hard time, but we're time master, we'll bend it in our favor ;)

 

Some of the endurance issues can be mitigated simply by getting the appropriate Badges that will increase your Max Health and Max Endurance, which will in turn increase the size of your regeneration/recovery ticks.

 

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the build so much.

/em thumbs up

[Linea]

Endurance:

- P2W Recovery Serums, you can stack up to 8 copies, for something like 50? charges.

- The 4 Recovery Uniques:  Perfshifter with a pair of endmods in stamina.  PvP, Miracle, Numina in health.

 

 

Incarnates: 

I don't really plan them, I do what the build needs at that time.  Same way I place slots and enhancements while I level.  I can't tell you what I will do, because I don't know.  I can't tell you what I did, because I didn't keep that detailed a record.  I just did it.

- Suggestions: 

- - Agility +endmod, +recharge, +defense

 

- - Void Judgement Total Radial -damage. The -50 damage is a miniature 30sec psuedo T9 Armor.  Yes, this has saved my bacon more than once.

- - Degen T3 25% -maxhp, 50% Toxic Proc, or the T4 Radial.  This recommendation is due to the stacking limits and how stacks tend to add up in combat.  As I recall the TLDR was, in-combat as-is, you can cap out the -maxhp stacks/limits on hard targets, so you want all the procs you can get instead.

 

- - Any Lore other than Seers.  There was a balance pass, and at this point they are all roughly equal with the exceptions of: Cimmies are the Best, Seers are the Worst.  Bots are the Best Behaved, if a subjective value of "behave" matters to you.

- - Ageless Radial +DDR  the 90 sec or 120 sec versions of the +DDR branch.

- - Alternatively:  Clarion Radial +Special T3/T4 ... PBU+Clarion Radial T3/T4*Far Sight is something close to double value.  HOWEVER, do not reapply farsight without it, or the lower value farsight will overwrite the higher value one.  This means you have to time these PERFECTLY! or you'll have a gap.  It's totally do-able, but very difficult.  I don't recall the exact numbers, but you can more or less soft-cap a whole team doing this.  Note:  I think you have to have the T4 to pull this off, and even then still have a status gap.  The status gap isn't a huge deal on a Time Tank, but if it bothers you, grab a P2W Defense Amp, or just keep Rune as a backup for the gaps if you get hit. 

 

- - Hybrid Core T4.  T4 or go home.  Used with Rune/Hybrid/Rune/Demonic/Weddingband/Kitchen Sink.  Seriously, unless you want to out-tank tanks, this is not needed.  But if you don't go this direction, you'll probably want to pick up Clarion Radial +Special in place of Ageless.

[kelly Rocket]

The reason I don't include Incarnate powers in my builds is because Incarnate content is what you're building for. If you need Incarnate powers to reach your build targets, how do you expect to get those Incarnate powers?

[TungstenShark]

For those going the Time/DP route outlined here, what Incarnates are you choosing and why?

[DoctorBorris]

Why do all these builds swap Executioner's Shot? As a single target shot it seems better per activation then Dual Shot, same activation time but longer reload and end cost.

It also gives a defense debuff.

 

Why does everyone skip it for Dual Shot?

[Redlynne]

Why do all these builds swap Executioner's Shot? As a single target shot it seems better per activation then Dual Shot, same activation time but longer reload and end cost.

It also gives a defense debuff.

 

Why does everyone skip it for Dual Shot?

 

Speaking just for myself, of course ...

 

Dual Wield can be obtained at Level 2.

Executioner's Shot can be obtained at Level 28.

If you're making a build that will never need to Exemplar below Level 23 ... by all means, go for Executioner's Shot instead of Dual Wield.

But since I plan to Exemplar below Level 23 ... that means that dropping Dual Wield simply isn't a desirable option.

 

From my perspective though, Executioner's Shot isn't competing with Dual Wield.

No, for me the tradeoff is between Executioner's Shot (28) and Piercing Rounds (35) as a single target "spike/finisher" attack ... and then between Piercing Rounds (35) and Bullet Rain (18) for which I'd expect to be dishing out more damage on a consistent basis (spoiler alert: Bullet Rain wins at converting endurance into damage when hitting 3+ targets).

 

The REAL kicker though is ... what happens if you slot Piercing Rounds for RANGE using one of the nifty bits of trickery I've posted in some of my other builds on these forums?  Specifically ...

 

Level 35: Piercing Rounds

• (A) HamiO: Centriole Exposure (+2 Dam/Range)
  
• (36) HamiO: Centriole Exposure +2 Dam/Range)
  
• (36) Detonation - Damage/Endurance/Range: Level 50
  
• (36) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
  
• (37) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50

 

You'll be getting almost +50% Range enhancement out of this (and have 1 slot left over for whatever you want) ... which, using Napkin Math™, will increase the range of Piercing Rounds out to ~120 ft before adding any Incarnate slotting into the mix.

 

Using a simple sin 4 * 120 calculation we come up with an answer that at maximum range around ~120 the 4º Cone of Piercing Rounds winds up being 8.3 feet wide ... which is a lot better at catching more targets within the Max Targets: 3 limit of the power, turning Piercing Rounds into something of a "poor man's multi-target snipe" that can multiply its efficiency at converting endurance into damage rather efficiently when used at extreme range.  You'd lose out on a +6.25% Global Recharge set bonus by doing that, but if you're already bumping up against the Rule of Five for that bonus mod, 5-slotting Piercing Rounds for RANGE instead of Positron's Blast might be a worthwhile alternative in the overall scheme of your build.

 

There are, of course, two edges to that particular sword ... such as shooting into nearby traffic and plinking the next group over along that Line of Sight when enhancing Piercing Rounds for RANGE ... but depending on how you steamroll, that isn't necessarily going to be a bad thing (especially if you've got a mildly competent Taunt Aura aggro magnet nearby to scoop up all those adds).  Use 3D positioning to avoid this problem if you don't want to deal with that particular outcome.

 

 

 

So at that point, it really comes down to a question of what you value most in your build ... high single target damage (Executioner's Shot) ... high opportunity multi-target damage (Piercing Rounds) ... or another "mow down" target AoE attack (Bullet Rain).  Depending on what you want your build to "do" for you will answer that question.

 

In that context, Executioner's Shot is the best answer for "hard single targets" like AVs and GMs.

Piercing Rounds makes for a fair compromise attack for harming hard single targets with the occasional opportunity for damaging additional targets due to Line of Sight factors.

Bullet Rain will help you mow down crunchies en masse wholesale, rather than retail.

 

You'll need to decide for yourself which of those scenarios happens more often than the others, and whether that scenario is compelling enough for you to want to orient your build around it.

Executioner's Shot is really only useful in a 3 button rotation of single target attacks, assuming the build doesn't have enough global recharge going for it that you can get away with using only 2 single target attacks on repeat alternation.  Thus in a high recharge build, Executioner's Shot goes from being "needed" (in my mind) to simply being "nice to have" if you've got the power picks and slots to spare for it, but something that can be skipped over for other choices if you don't have the power picks and/or enhancement slots to spare on it.

 

Good enough of an answer for you?

[TungstenShark]

The other Incarnate slots I think I'm good with, but I am having questions regarding my Alpha slot with this build. Is Musculature more valuable than Agility if you are already perma-Hastened? Those are the two I'm going back and forth over, but maybe there is another I am overlooking.

[DoctorBorris]

Thanks Red!

 

+1 Inf. You inspired me to make a Time Pistol Gunslinger, and so far its been fun!

[Redlynne]

That seems to be a general consensus around nearly all of the builds I've posted (for some reason) ...

[Bopper]

Assuming you have enough global recharge, what are the optimal attack chains for Dual Pistols?

 

Some categories (feel free to post multiples for each category):

 

ST attack chain (sustained damage for AV/GM)

 

AoE attack chain (mow down mobs or farming)

 

Burst

 

 

[Redlynne]

You're probably going to hate me for this answer, but ... It Depends™ ... on the situation and the opposition you're facing (and how many allies you've got at your disposal to attract attention Away From You).

It also depends on what Level you're playing at, since Exemplar can restrict what powers you have access to (and the amount of Enhancement value you get out of your slots).  Unlike some people, I don't just assume that once I reach Level 50 I'm never going to play anything Level 1-49 ever again.

 

So the answer to the question CHANGES depending on what is "needed" at any given time.  You play differently in a target rich environment when there is no Mez coming your way than you do when there's lots of Mez coming your way (for example).  There are more complexities involved in the actual gameplay under a variety of circumstances than a One Size Fits All answer will provide you.

 

Which I suppose is a rather long winded way of saying "git gud" and you'll enjoy yourself a whole lot more with the toolbox that Time/Dual Pistols/Dark makes available to you.  The only challenge is ... can YOU (the Player) keep up with figuring out, from moment to moment, which options lead to the best advantages as situations and circumstances evolve?  If you can't, you might enjoy playing something else that doesn't require as much mental agility and situational awareness to play at a high level of skill ... and the loss of a potential for Scrapperlock while playing a Defender.  Trust me, when you're IN THE ZONE of Scrapperlock it can become a VERY addictive feeling!

[Bopper]

You're probably going to hate me for this answer, but ... It Depends™ ... on the situation and the opposition you're facing (and how many allies you've got at your disposal to attract attention Away From You).

It also depends on what Level you're playing at, since Exemplar can restrict what powers you have access to (and the amount of Enhancement value you get out of your slots).  Unlike some people, I don't just assume that once I reach Level 50 I'm never going to play anything Level 1-49 ever again.

 

So the answer to the question CHANGES depending on what is "needed" at any given time.  You play differently in a target rich environment when there is no Mez coming your way than you do when there's lots of Mez coming your way (for example).  There are more complexities involved in the actual gameplay under a variety of circumstances than a One Size Fits All answer will provide you.

 

For both of these scenarios, let's assume I have 300% recharge for all my powers. Perma-Hasten, Perma-Chrono Shift, lots of Force Feedback Procs, and tons of global recharge.

Which I suppose is a rather long winded way of saying "git gud" and you'll enjoy yourself a whole lot more with the toolbox that Time/Dual Pistols/Dark makes available to you.  The only challenge is ... can YOU (the Player) keep up with figuring out, from moment to moment, which options lead to the best advantages as situations and circumstances evolve?  If you can't, you might enjoy playing something else that doesn't require as much mental agility and situational awareness to play at a high level of skill ... and the loss of a potential for Scrapperlock while playing a Defender.  Trust me, when you're IN THE ZONE of Scrapperlock it can become a VERY addictive feeling!

 

Let's rephrase my original question, to narrow down the nuance. Let's say I'm level 50 and am on a team and we are taking down a big bad AV. The minions are not a concern and we are just wanting to take down the tough guy. What is the best ST attack chain for that situation.

 

Now let's say I am solo and I am trying to run through missions at +1/x8. What is the best AoE attack chain with the occasional ST attacks for filler?

 

Let's also assume I have 300% recharge in all my all powers (so 1/4th recharge time from base).

[oldskool]

Assuming you have enough global recharge, what are the optimal attack chains for Dual Pistols?

 

Some categories (feel free to post multiples for each category):

 

ST attack chain (sustained damage for AV/GM)

 

AoE attack chain (mow down mobs or farming)

 

Burst

 

I'll use the above, but I'm really addressing that follow-up.  I hope you don't mind my chiming in Redlynne.  ;)

 

A completely selfish "look at my DEEPS" chain with the recharge you suggest could be:

 

Single Target 1: Incendiary Ammo -> Piercing Rounds -> Pistols -> Executioner's Shot -> Pistols, rinse-repeat. 

Single Target 2: Incendiary Ammo -> Pistols -> Executioner's Shot -> Pistols -> Piercing Rounds

Single Target 3 (slightly advanced): Turn off all ammo -> Piercing Rounds -> Turn on Incendiary Ammo -> Pistols -> Executioner's Shot -> Pistols -> repeat (including the juggling of ammo)

Single Target 4 (supportive): *Ammo [use what is most beneficial to the team - default/toxic/cryo] -> One of the chains above depending on ammo selection. 

 

Piercing Rounds takes priority with standard ammo due to the -Resistance if you think that is going to be the best benefit (probably will be) otherwise it really doesn't matter if you open with it. 

 

AoE:

 

Opener - Hail of Bullets -> Bullet Rain -> Empty clips --- Caveat here should be that generally there really isn't an AoE attack chain.  In CoH grouping is often too chaotic for that.  Use a priority system.  For 3 targets+ Bullet Rain should be your first choice, and Hail of Bullets is going to be the highest damage opener you have.  Forgot Piercing Rounds but only if you're actively enhancing the range to expand the narrow cone.  If you aren't building like that, then view PR more like a single target shot that can occasionally tag another target.  I generally don't think about it because I don't enhance it like Redlynne does, but that idea is awesome regardless!

 

Burst:

 

Play a Stalker.  No, I'm not trying to be flippant (OK, I guess maybe a little), but this isn't going to be the AT for burst damage.  I'd also argue that DP isn't the best set to be saying "burst damage" nor is it a high DPS set for most AT's that get it.  Even using Incendiary Ammo (the dps option) the set is about middle to lower middle tier on AT's that get it.  That's not a bad place to be, but it isn't exactly Fire Blast either. 

 

I'd worry FAR less about personal DPS on a Defender.  It's just not a strength of the AT, and worry far more about how you make everyone else do higher DPS.  In a solo situation run Incendiary Ammo for your 'Fender to help speed things up if you like, but in a group you're going to be better off using the debuff options in the set.  Applications of the debuffs are worth their weight in gold.  You doing more Incendiary Ammo damage isn't worth a hill of beans more often than not.

[Bopper]

Thanks oldskool, my goal was to find a starting point and you provided that. I'll play around with numbers to see what can be maximized using procs, etc. Thanks again.

 

Follow up question, does anyone know how procs work with powers like Bullet Rain where there are ticks of damage? I'm familiar with the PPM calculator, but I'm curious if that calculation is applied every tick or just once on button press.

[Redlynne]

I hope you don't mind my chiming in Redlynne.  ;)

 

No objection.  Please proceed ...

[Tamorand]

Speaking just for myself (of course) ... I usually used Ninja Run+Sprint as my "travel" power(s), since that gave me about 60mph worth of speed.  I then took Hover simply to be able to reach "high places" and other locations that would be beyond the (easy) reach of jumping around with Ninja Run.  Only place it became a (slow) problem was in the Shadow Shard, due to the lack of "ground" in those zones ... and the easy solution was to buy a Flight Pack.  Of course, when doing Shadow Shard Task Forces there was almost always someone on the team with Recall Friend, so even that situation wasn't as bad as you might think it ought to be, especially if you were at all familiar with the Geysers out there (most people weren't).

 

And it was always fun to be "FIRST" to the Mission Door when using nothing more than Ninja Run+Sprint and watching the Superspeeders roll in behind you because you understood how to navigate better than they did ... ;)

 

ProTip:  Hover +JetPack + Hold Spacebar(or jump button of your choice)

You will get the speed of JetPack + the Control of Hover - Just point your face to the ground and you will go horizontal at very fast speeds.

 

Enjoy :)

[diefree]

Thank you for this. How would you go about leveling? What powers should I take?

[Redlynne]

How would you go about leveling?

 

The usual way.

Play game, earn levels.  Speaking just for myself, I'd rather PLAY the game than powerlevel past it all in a race to get to 50.

At the moment I'm prevented from playing the game at all due to this problem which I can't get an answer for.

 

What powers should I take?

 

I provided 3 builds with slight differences in power picks.  Choose one that looks/feels right to you and start from there?

[oldskool]

Thank you for this. How would you go about leveling? What powers should I take?

 

Take what you need as you go.  That's probably a really generic response, but power value isn't that complicated. 

 

Pistols + Dual Wield should be a given.  You wouldn't get another hard hitter until later (Executioner's Shot) anyway.  No reason to make a frustrating single target rotation when Homecoming gives you a respec for free ever 10 levels.  <-- Use one at 50 or use an alternate build for a final version.  Make life easy.  Work smarter, not harder. 

 

There is no reason not to use both Empty Clips and Bullet Rain while leveling.  Your next real AoE is Hail of Bullets... at level 38.  Piercing Rounds takes some slotting with range in order to open the default cone.  So I don't quite put it in the same realm as Clips/Rain.  Oh, and PR comes in the 30's too.  Again, no reason to handicap yourself while leveling.  Do what is fun! 

 

You can push off Suppressive Fire until a final build.  You could also take it too... there isn't a wrong answer.  I love the use of Suppressive as a stacking control in these builds, but you do need some IO's to really see it as functional. 

 

Anyway, don't feel restricted to following a build exactly while leveling.  You won't have all of the components that make it work as you level anyway.  So do what you think works while using the build as a template and fix the lessons learned with a final version at 50.  That's what I do and it makes leveling decisions far less stressful.  Of course, YMMV. ;)

[KnightSoul]

Having just run an ITF with a kickass Time Defender (And finally hit 50 on my Time/DP), Power Boost is stupidly good on Farsight.  50% more defense, and to hit, making Power Boost functionally count as a fairly strong defense buff on its own.  It was a convincing display of Defendery OPness,  I'll be off to convince Ghost Widow that I'm totally a Destined One.  Scout's honor!  Just don't ask Kaaa... linda.

[Bopper]

Having just run an ITF with a kickass Time Defender (And finally hit 50 on my Time/DP), Power Boost is stupidly good on Farsight.  50% more defense, and to hit, making Power Boost functionally count as a fairly strong defense buff on its own.  It was a convincing display of Defendery OPness,  I'll be off to convince Ghost Widow that I'm totally a Destined One.  Scout's honor!  Just don't ask Kaaa... linda.

 

It certainly is. I just got done remaking my Time/DP/Soul defender into a buzz saw with capped defense, capped S/L resistance, 217.5% global recharge and enough DPS to make farmers take notice. I use Power Boost and Clarion Radial for double power boosts (well ~1.8 power boosts) for extra OPness

[KnightSoul]

You monster.  What will the poor "everyone else on the team" do? 

 

Steamroller everything, probably.  ;D