Please allow explosive arrow to ignite oil slick

[kryptochan]

The name says it all. Its an EXPLOSION.. why would that not cause a flammable oil patch not to ignite? 

[Herotu]

Seems complicated.

[Redlynne]

Explosive Arrow only does Smashing/Lethal damage (so it's more of a concussion type than an incendiary type).

Explosive Arrow would need to deal Fire damage of some sort in order to ignite Oil Slick.  Even a "token" Fire DoT added to the power would do the job.

[SwitchFade]

Seems logical. If it's not time/labor intensive to add a 1 tic 1 damage fire DoT to ignite it, and it's not imbalancing, then I think this deserves looking in to.

[Itikar]

I totally believed it could ignite the slick already. Well, since it doesn't, then seconded. It might not be the most high priority issue but it certainly makes sense.

[Alchemystic]

I think most typical explosives (M30 Grenade, Explosive Shuriken and a few others) should have a 'Special Vs Chemicals' effect that does background fire damage to Oil Slicks, Chemistry Labs and a select few enemies.

[Sif]

Another option would be to give Explosive Arrow a special fire component that only procs if the target is an oil slick. I think it would be good to try to pick at least one power from every blast set to be able to trigger the oil slick (some might be harder to rationalize, like Water Blast... maybe steam spray? 🤷‍♀️)

 

There's several powers that already use this tech, like the Coolant temp power, Anti Matter's disintegration power, the Extinguisher, and Haunt's Haunted effect which taunts Shades.

[SaddestGhost]

23 minutes ago, Sif said:

Another option would be to give Explosive Arrow a special fire component that only procs if the target is an oil slick. I think it would be good to try to pick at least one power from every blast set to be able to trigger the oil slick (some might be harder to rationalize, like Water Blast... maybe steam spray? 🤷‍♀️)

I believe Steam Spray already has a fire component so it can currently ignite it.

[Haijinx]

if we did that then Trick Arrow might actually be good at something.

[Redlynne]

5 hours ago, Sif said:

Another option would be to give Explosive Arrow a special fire component that only procs if the target is an oil slick.

WAY too specialized.

Simply add a DoT that does 1 Fire damage per second for 3 seconds.  DONE.  You can even copy/paste the effects of Incendiary Ammo out of Dual Pistols attacks if that's too onerous a task to do from scratch (just make it 100% chance to happen from Explosive Arrow).

[Leogunner]

You're Archery. Just use Blazing Arrow. 

 

If I were trying to add functionality, I'd probably add something like "effect splash" to attacks that deal KB. Basically, it'd splash the effect of the slick onto the target so you can light up the target. It'd be the equivalent of splashing the slick up on the targets. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Leogunner

[Alchemystic]

56 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

You're Archery. Just use Blazing Arrow.

I think the point is not wasting a high damaging power just to ignite the oil slick when a AoE power doing it would be more cost effective.

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, Tyrannical said:

I think the point is not wasting a high damaging power just to ignite the oil slick when a AoE power doing it would be more cost effective.

Is called a trade off. Trade a ST damage power > get an AoE damage power. 

 

Oh, you wanted more free gimmies? Ah, gotcha. 

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, Leogunner said:

Is called a trade off. Trade a ST damage power > get an AoE damage power. 

 

Oh, you wanted more free gimmies? Ah, gotcha. 

well hey they started changing later 'explosives' powers to deal fire damage, what I (and everyone else here) wants is consistency, especially for the purpose of logical power dynamics.

 

So no, it isn't a free gimme, it's just changing something to make sense, but I have a feeling 'sense' matters little to you when the opportunity to be snide and snarky is wayyyy more important.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Sakura Tenshi]

A fire DoT for explosive arrow could be nice in general seeing as archery overall seems a bit lackluster.

[kryptochan]

LOL if I'm going to be accused of being greedy than I'll go whole hog. FLASH Arrow and EMP Arrow at minimum should also be able to ignite Oil Slick. Flash Arrow is a Flash Bang on a stick, which also... EXPLODES. If its a problem that it doesn't agro, I'm fine with taking that out as that also does not make sense. I would just bump the to hit debuff and maybe add a possible disorient (kinda like how a actual flash bang works!!!) so it would still be useful at high level content, If they warn static electricity can cause your car to blow up while you pump gas, I'm sure an arrow that generates a huge electro magnetic pulse can ignite a highly flammable liquid. Poison and Acid Arrow also state they EXPLODE, but I wont be too greedy and say its like a glass vial that breaks on impact. Give us the Blaster version of Entangling Arrow with the shock DOT, which should also ignite Oil Slick and we can call it a day. (Although I find it very dumb that after firing an arrow I'm exhausted with EMP arrow.. I just shot an arrow for gosh sakes, its not like I fire arrows for a living...) This way that poor Ice/Arrow troller can use a power in their set fully with out having to dip out to other pools. What other set has a power you cannot fully use without something in that set that can trigger it? I ask you? Everyone knows this set underperforms, you know it, bees know it, monkey in the trees know it. Is it too much to ask for a little love?

Edited March 7, 2020 by kryptochan

[Leogunner]

23 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

well hey they started changing later 'explosives' powers to deal fire damage, what I (and everyone else here) wants is consistency, especially for the purpose of logical power dynamics.

 

So no, it isn't a free gimme, it's just changing something to make sense, but I have a feeling 'sense' matters little to you when the opportunity to be snide and snarky is wayyyy more important.

 

Firstly, what "later explosives" are you talking about?  What does "later" mean in that context?

 

And you don't want consistency.  If you wanted consistency, we would also need to implement nerfs to keep certain aspects consistent within the game's "logical power dynamics".  You don't know what you asking for.

 

And it is a free gimme.  Not a god damned one of you asked to CHANGE explosive arrow into a fire/lethal explosion (which, in and of itself is a gimme since that is less resisted but the smashing portion of the power does only half of what the lethal portion does) but rather just to add more functionality on top of it.  Or adjusting the damage down for the added functionality...just asked for more stuff on it.

 

As for a remark being snide and snarky, it's because it's the only reaction necessary.  You can ask for more and more stuff to your hearts content.  So long as it's just extra unnecessary gimmies and acknowledged as such, who am I to tell you you can't suggest it?  But I will say what it is.

 

1 hour ago, kryptochan said:

LOL if I'm going to be accused of being greedy than I'll go whole hog. 

See?  He get's it.

 

1 hour ago, kryptochan said:

This way that poor Ice/Arrow troller can use a power in their set fully with out having to dip out to other pools. 

My Ice/TA controller sees no issue using a pool power for extra damage to ignite his oil slicks.  If it were a problem, he'd use an origin power instead.

 

1 hour ago, kryptochan said:

What other set has a power you cannot fully use without something in that set that can trigger it? I ask you? 

Sonic Resonance has 2 that requires a pet or teammate.  Radiation Emission has a non-rez power that requires a dead ally to proc damage off of.  But that goes without saying that Trick Arrow has a unique aspect in that it is the only set that has a power that has extra interactivity with other powers (namely fire and energy damage attacks).  

 

While I'm of the opinion that TA needs improvements (although this thread isn't about TA, it's about archery), I feel a more intriguing approach to helping the set isn't to just make its one interaction more universal but rather to give the set more and varied interaction with its other powers and for those additions to be "free" when calculating the powers' costs.  But I repeat, this isn't about TA, this is about archery.

[Alchemystic]

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

Firstly, what "later explosives" are you talking about?  What does "later" mean in that context?

Pretty much anything post-Cryptic

 

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

And you don't want consistency.  If you wanted consistency, we would also need to implement nerfs to keep certain aspects consistent within the game's "logical power dynamics".  You don't know what you asking for.

I don't mind if Sonic and the fire-damage Water powers don't trigger Oil Slick, but I'm sure other people would object so I dare not suggest it. And to be fair, the whole idea of 'explosive' powers doing special fire damage vs flammable chemicals is about as logical a power dynamic as you can get.

 

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

And it is a free gimme.  Not a god damned one of you asked to CHANGE explosive arrow into a fire/lethal explosion (which, in and of itself is a gimme since that is less resisted but the smashing portion of the power does only half of what the lethal portion does) but rather just to add more functionality on top of it.  Or adjusting the damage down for the added functionality...just asked for more stuff on it.

Oh no, imagine adding extra functionality to underperforming powersets!...

Rebirth is that way ---->

 

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

As for a remark being snide and snarky, it's because it's the only reaction necessary.  You can ask for more and more stuff to your hearts content.  So long as it's just extra unnecessary gimmies and acknowledged as such, who am I to tell you you can't suggest it?  But I will say what it is.

I'm sure any GM will tell you otherwise 

 

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

See?  He get's it.

And you don't.

It's called sarcasm my dude.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Tyrannical

[oedipus_tex]

It's always been really weird to me that one of the arrows in Trick Arrow can't be used to light Oil Slick. That's an example of old school design.

[Sif]

8 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

It's always been really weird to me that one of the arrows in Trick Arrow can't be used to light Oil Slick. That's an example of old school design.

Blazing Arrow can light the oil slick. IIRC, that was a change that happened later on when Archery got a large buff.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Sif said:

Blazing Arrow can light the oil slick. IIRC, that was a change that happened later on when Archery got a large buff.

Wasn't blazing arrow always fire damage?

[oedipus_tex]

15 minutes ago, Sif said:

Blazing Arrow can light the oil slick. IIRC, that was a change that happened later on when Archery got a large buff.

 

Yes but Blazing Arrow is an Archery power. Trick Arrow doesn't have powers that light the slick.

 

Interestingly there is a power in Tactical Arrow that would though (Electric Net Arrow). 

[Sif]

1 minute ago, oedipus_tex said:

Yes but Blazing Arrow is an Archery power. Trick Arrow doesn't have powers that light the slick.

Oh, whoops, misunderstood what you wrote before!

[VileTerror]

EDIT:  Ok, so a little embarrassing.  I discovered that what I said originally in this post may not be accurate after attempting to do some research.  In my meagre defense, it HAS been about 20 years since I took anything resembling a chemistry class which involved this particular subject matter.  I work in a kitchen these days, which may be applied chemistry, but it seems that I should brush up on my laboratory chem work before saying stuff like this in public.

Below is the original text, left for posterity:  

 

I always kind of felt that Acid Arrow should ignite the Oil Slick.  I mean, depending on which type of acid you're using, you can get an exothermic reaction when combining it with a lipid matrix.  Since the type of oil isn't specified either, we could potentially surmise that the two could react with one another to ignite.

Edited March 7, 2020 by VileTerror
Mixed up my memories of chemistry class.

[kryptochan]

LOL you sold me VileTerror! that makes sense! Ima greedy gus add that to my list of what should ignite Oil Slick!! I got ponies in both races being a TA/Arrow corrupter, more love, LUV ME!!! I EXIST!!

Edited March 7, 2020 by kryptochan