Katana Attack chain and Proc question

[SuperPlyx]

I was wondering what people are using for there attack chain with Katana, I am currently using: Sting of the Wasp > Soaring Dragon > Golden Dragonfly.....I tried starting with Divine Avalanche but IMO the animation for that power is terrible and just unusable.

I have the Critical Strike set slotted in Sting and the Scrapper Strike set slotted in Soaring. 

It just seems like I should be getting criticals  more than I am. It has got to be either my attack chain or where I have slotted the ATOs procs. Or both I guess.

 

Any help/advice appreciated.

[Krazie Ivan]

i think having it in Sting is your issue, as it's base Rech is low. i've had the 50% Proc in Golden on my Kat/Reg, and Soaring on my Kat/EnA ...can't tell which fires more, tho Golden should win. both of my chars only have those 3 attacks, plus Lotus (Divine is a given-slot mule on the Regen & never sees use), so i don't think it's the chain. my EnA has enough +Rech while in a mob that i use Soaring every-other-attack, yet it still fires a ton, giving a pretty good AoE dmg boost from Lotus crits.

[Werner]

I have a flexible chain depending upon my defensive needs and my current state of recharge buffs or debuffs.

• Default: Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Gambler's Cut
• Defensive or recharge debuffed: Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Gambler's Cut
• Very defensive: Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut
• Recharge buffed, feeling safe: Gambler's Cut -> Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon

Gambler's Cut does better DPS than Sting of the Wasp, and the faster animation should allow for better stacking of -defense. I usually skip Sting of the Wasp in an endgame build. I like taking both it and Gambler's Cut for the lower levels, though. And if you have the recharge for your chain to be gapless, and don't need extra defense (or refuse it due to the animation), I think you have a good chain already, and you can insert an extra Sting of the Wasp when recharge debuffed.

 

I'm not a proc expert and I've misplaced the formula, but my memory is that the chance of triggering the proc depends on the unenhanced recharge time of the power, so for the maximum chance of critical hits in your chain, as well as maximum damage from them, you'd probably be best off with it in Golden Dragonfly. A proc expert will hopefully confirm.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Werner

[MunkiLord]

9 hours ago, Werner said:

I'm not a proc expert and I've misplaced the formula, but my memory is that the chance of triggering the proc depends on the unenhanced recharge time of the power, so for the maximum chance of critical hits in your chain, as well as maximum damage from them, you'd probably be best off with it in Golden Dragonfly. A proc expert will hopefully confirm.

It’s based off the base and enhanced recharge of the power including Alpha Slot. Global recharge does not impact it. 
 

I don’t have the formula in front of me, but basically longer recharge powers with less enhanced recharge have a higher chance to proc, with a hard cap of 90%.

 

Depending on a power’s base recharge, you could have the enhanced recharge somewhere in the high 60s and still be at or near the proc chance. 
 

Here is a link to Boppers PPM guide, it’s good stuff. 

Also searching for the various proc monster threads will also give all kinds of amazing information. 

edit: That preview picture makes the PPM stuff look scary. For single target powers it’s actually a simple formula you can plug into a spreadsheet or Google search bar. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by MunkiLord

[Sovera]

I'm leveling a Kat/Bio Scrapper myself, and having lots of fun. First time I do a Katana and it's lovely. I'm a sucker for fast animations.

 

My own attack chain is simply Divine Avalanche, Golden dragonfly, Soaring Dragon. This has a 0.5ish second gap that I decided to ignore. If someone throws an Ageless, if someone throws an SB, or an Accelerated Metabolism, or the FF procs goes off, or etc, the gap works itself out.

 

I have the Critical Strikes proc in Avalanche, the Force Feedback proc in Soaring Dragon, and the Achiles proc in Golden Dragonfly.

 

This is my reasoning but it is not backed by math:

 

- One of the perks in Katana is Avalanche and the defense it brings. I can slot the build accordingly taking in consideration Avalanche so this is what I did. There is an appreciable damage difference between the two (87 base damage Avalanche VS 120 base Sting) but it's a choice. Considering I have Sting anyway and use it as a mule reversing the slotting is certainly doable but having the skill and not using it makes no sense to me since it's not like I can retroactively grant myself the defense stacks. I want those in early and I want them stacked since /Bio's weakness in lacking DDR will appreciate the buffer (81% Lethal for the pesky Cimeroran swords and spears, as well as bullets, all lethal, all defense debuffing. 75% Melee).

- Because of this Avalanche is my filler. If I am doing AoE I will use it, if I am doing ST I will use it. So I put the Critical Strikes proc in it. I read about how putting it in Golden Dragonfly was the best choice, but then if I exemp down I won't have access to it any longer. This is something math may well disagree with me as well as those who do not intend to exemp down.

- The Force Feedback had to go somewhere since it would be a waste not to have one slotted in. Soaring Dragon is the earliest attack I can put it in, and while I could put it in Golden Dragonfly the exemping thing rears up again. I am not fussed about not having the -res proc, but having more recharge for Ablative/Hasten/DNA Siphon is important to me.

[InvaderStych]

Quick Question for @Werner and @Sovera - Those chains are with or without Hasten? Also, looks like no love for Flashing Steel?  Currently running it while leveling and getting good results with both Achilles and CritStrikes Procs in there.

 

Asking for my Kat/Rad scappy. 🙂

[Werner]

25 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Those chains are with or without Hasten? Also, looks like no love for Flashing Steel?

My default chain works for me even with Hasten down. I have 60% global recharge outside of Hasten. I often run the recharge buffed chain when Hasten is up - despite a small gap, the DPS is still better. Too much of a gap when Hasten is down, though.

 

Flashing Steel is probably worth taking on most builds. It's a decent cone, decent DPS.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Werner

[Sovera]

23 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Quick Question for @Werner and @Sovera - Those chains are with or without Hasten? Also, looks like no love for Flashing Steel?  Currently running it while leveling and getting good results with both Achilles and CritStrikes Procs in there.

 

Asking for my Kat/Rad scappy. 🙂

Hasten up.

[Bopper]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:46 PM, Sovera said:

 

My own attack chain is simply Divine Avalanche, Golden dragonfly, Soaring Dragon.

Is Divine Avalanche worth it? Meaning, are you doing it for the defense or is the damage better with that than GC>SD>GC>GD? GC does same damage, faster cast time, and you get 2 opportunities for procs.

[Sovera]

Just now, Bopper said:

Is Divine Avalanche worth it? Meaning, are you doing it for the defense or is the damage better with that than GC>SD>GC>GD? GC does same damage, faster cast time, and you get 2 opportunities for procs.

I explained my reasoning in the post you quoted that from (not being snarky). In the same post I mentioned how Avalanche is less damage than GC. It's just a personal choice, I am not advocating others to do it. I just feel Divine Avalanche is a strength of the set and not using it would be a waste. On top of using it allows leeway in my slotting with the defense boost.

 

My real damage comes from GD and SD anyway. Divine Avalanche/Gambler's Cut is just a filler waiting for those two to come back.

[Bopper]

10 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I explained my reasoning in the post you quoted that from (not being snarky). In the same post I mentioned how Avalanche is less damage than GC. It's just a personal choice, I am not advocating others to do it. I just feel Divine Avalanche is a strength of the set and not using it would be a waste. On top of using it allows leeway in my slotting with the defense boost.

 

My real damage comes from GD and SD anyway. Divine Avalanche/Gambler's Cut is just a filler waiting for those two to come back.

My apologies, I did scan over it far too quickly. Thanks for clarifying it again. 

[Werner]

55 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I just feel Divine Avalanche is a strength of the set and not using it would be a waste.

I mostly feel the same way. The ability to stack huge melee/lethal defense is I think the biggest selling point of the set. I do soft cap melee without it, so when I'm cruising and things are easy and Hasten is up, it's nice to ignore Divine Avalanche and do better DPS. But to head off defense debuffs, and for incarnate content, I'll work it into my attack chain, and spam it when needed.

[Sovera]

8 minutes ago, Werner said:

I mostly feel the same way. The ability to stack huge melee/lethal defense is I think the biggest selling point of the set. I do soft cap melee without it, so when I'm cruising and things are easy and Hasten is up, it's nice to ignore Divine Avalanche and do better DPS. But to head off defense debuffs, and for incarnate content, I'll work it into my attack chain, and spam it when needed.

I've moved on, because what do I do if not move on to the next alt, but I'd rank Katana as high as Claws after playing it, which is high praise for me. Claws exemps better thanks to having a full attack chain by 18 (and that AoE, God...) but Katana has the hard hitters that Claws lacks as well as having the same spiffy fast animations, and then on top of it what makes the set pull ahead of Claws is Divine Avalanche. In one fell swoop with no investment a resistance based secondary suddenly has softcapped melee and this is huuuuuge for survival, and so low level we have this softcapped ish melee by Positron 1. Katana and Bio are a very happy marriage.

 

I mean, I'm preaching to the choir here, Werner 😄

[Werner]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

I mean, I'm preaching to the choir here, Werner 😄

Haha, yeah. Katana's been my favorite forever, but there are a number of Primaries I've not even tried.

[InvaderStych]

22 minutes ago, Werner said:

Haha, yeah. Katana's been my favorite forever, but there are a number of Primaries I've not even tried.

I can see why - my new Kat/Rad was partially inspired by following your exploits (both in the Before Times, The Long, Long Ago, and more recently on HC) with Kat/Dark and is turning out to be quite fun and interesting.  Hadn't given Katana a serious go before this one, no real reason for that save that I got sidetracked by Brutes back during Live.

 

Those power choices though - really tight.  Definitely going to work Avalanche in, but my rough draft drops Flashing and still doesn't have Hasten in the mix.  I'd rather not drop the T9 from /Rad as the +dmg there could be interesting to play with, and given I usually don't have the budget to go full on "Purples" with a build I usually like to have the "Oh Shit" button.

 

I suppose I could go without Leadership picks - but that leaves me with a Fear/Confuse hole in terms of Mez protection.  Not really sure how important that is in practical terms though.

 

Decisions, Decisions, lol.  Heck, I haven't even respec'd into Hover yet - I'd like to try something other than my tried and true CJ/SJ combo that has been on basically every melee I've made.  Good thing we get all those free respecs these days.

 

Either way, he's only 27 so far, so I've got lots of time to figure it out.

 

Sorry, I'm totally rambling, heh.