Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, BigGotter said:

I really would like to see this whole mess fixed right once and for all. From what I've been reading in these forums, the whole community is divided now on the subject of nerfing influence.  I myself have hardly logged any game time since the patch release, instead I sit in the forums looking, waiting for answers. Where are we headed? How can we fix this so everyone can have fun again?   Putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari will slow it down, but then all you end up with is a fancy looking Prius.

The community is not divided, it has a vocal minority espousing support for economic breaking functions for their personal benefit

 

Explanations have been provided in detail as to why it was fixed, why it's beneficial and why it's better for the economy and participants.

 

All these great details are in this thread to be perused at your leisure. Or,  you can trust me when I say it's a good thing.

 

Conversely, I invite you to read the previous 45 pages.

Edited April 10, 2020 by SwitchFade

[Peerless Girl]

4 hours ago, BigGotter said:

I really would like to see this whole mess fixed right once and for all. From what I've been reading in these forums, the whole community is divided now on the subject of nerfing influence.  I myself have hardly logged any game time since the patch release, instead I sit in the forums looking, waiting for answers. Where are we headed? How can we fix this so everyone can have fun again?   Putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari will slow it down, but then all you end up with is a fancy looking Prius.

 

I would suggest playing if you want to play, and not if you don't. Where we're headed? Only the Shadow err...Devs know, and when they feel like telling us, they will. The exploit is fixed, most people are fine, we'll watch for the long-term changes and the devs will react as needed I'm sure. The complaining is a vocal minority. There's no answers to wait for, unless you just like waiting. 

[BigGotter]

Just now, Peerless Girl said:

 

I would suggest playing if you want to play, and not if you don't. Where we're headed? Only the Shadow err...Devs know, and when they feel like telling us, they will. The exploit is fixed, most people are fine, we'll watch for the long-term changes and the devs will react as needed I'm sure. The complaining is a vocal minority. There's no answers to wait for, unless you just like waiting. 

I'm good with fixing the exploit. I can accept the influence nerf. What troubles me now is the value of influence has changed to make it profitable to sell outside the game. Yes if they get caught it will be delt with swiftly, but now you have to police things, devote more time and resouces to tracking down the ones doing it. And if they get caught, who cares, build another account and your back in business.  At least with the influence higher, it kept things in check in the world wide economy. Trust me

[justicebeliever]

Just now, BigGotter said:

Trust me

This is the internet.  I wouldn't trust my own mom if she posted it on the internet...

 

Just so I am clear, a small subset of farmers lost an exploit that netted them extra influence, and in order to make up for that loss they are going to buy influence in the Real World?  And a small % of that small subset are going to bog down Developer time policing it?  And a smaller portion of those that get caught are going to lose all the influence they just bought (because when they get caught, they don't keep the influence, and they don't get their money back), but then are going to go out and create a new account and buy even more than they bought the first time they got banned?  And of those few, it's going to be so much influence that it upsets the economy.  That's a lot of if's for a small group of people.  I say the risk is super small...

 

I think you are over thinking this...trust me...

[BigGotter]

19 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

This is the internet.  I wouldn't trust my own mom if she posted it on the internet...

 

Just so I am clear, a small subset of farmers lost an exploit that netted them extra influence, and in order to make up for that loss they are going to buy influence in the Real World?  And a small % of that small subset are going to bog down Developer time policing it?  And a smaller portion of those that get caught are going to lose all the influence they just bought (because when they get caught, they don't keep the influence, and they don't get their money back), but then are going to go out and create a new account and buy even more than they bought the first time they got banned?  And of those few, it's going to be so much influence that it upsets the economy.  That's a lot of if's for a small group of people.  I say the risk is super small...

 

I think you are over thinking this...trust me...

Sounds like a nemesis plot, except the exploiters are selling, not buying influence in the real world.  

[justicebeliever]

It might in fact be a Nemesis plot, but that's probably what Nemesis wants us to think.

 

That said, with the exploit closed, I don't see how this generates MORE influence...you've admittedly lost me...

[skoryy]

53 minutes ago, BigGotter said:

Trust me

No, I don't think I will.

[EmmySky]

20 minutes ago, BigGotter said:

Sounds like a nemesis plot, except the exploiters are selling, not buying influence in the real world.  

If you have knowledge of real world trading happening...let the devs know they will quash it.

 

In order for the exploiters to be selling inf, someone has to be buying it.  You not only lost everyone here with your logic, I think you lost yourself.

[BigGotter]

3 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

It might in fact be a Nemesis plot, but that's probably what Nemesis wants us to think.

 

That said, with the exploit closed, I don't see how this generates MORE influence...you've admittedly lost me...

Ok, back on live, there were rouge websites people could go to and buy influence for CoH. A simple transaction of cash for influence was made thru paypal, or whatever. A time and place to meet was set up and a few minuets later you would have 100 million influence delivered to your toon.  That was back in the early times when influence was hard to make. Move on up to present day pre patch and earning influence was easy to come by, even doing regular door missions. Therefore putting the places selling influence out of business or at least in check.  Now, since the patch has reduced the amount of influence that people are getting, it has opend the door again for these rouge websites.  Hope that all makes better sence. 

[BigGotter]

4 minutes ago, skoryy said:

No, I don't think I will.

lol, actually, I kinda threw that is as a poke at the guy a few posts up that keeps saying to trust him. 

[BigGotter]

5 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

If you have knowledge of real world trading happening...let the devs know they will quash it.

 

In order for the exploiters to be selling inf, someone has to be buying it.  You not only lost everyone here with your logic, I think you lost yourself.

Exactly, I can't stand a cheat.  

[QuiJon]

On 4/9/2020 at 2:47 PM, MunkiLord said:

This is already the case. If people put in the effort, they'll have extra influence sitting around too.

Not true, as has been said people spend like 20 minutes working the market a day and earn a billion a week in influence. However now if I farm 20 minutes a day I likely will barely break 200m, if someone spends time doing 1 TF a day they likely will earn maybe 20 or so million for that TF. 

 

The problem is what people consider effort. For some reason gaming a market is considered "playing the game" where actually using your characters and hitting buttons and powers if it was being done in a AE mission that was repeatable was not. And the point of my first example was not to say 2m is a big amount of influence. It was to show how the powers creep up. And as they creep up, even if someone like you lists something for cheap, it will still end up being the odd man in the history listing and people wont consider it a valid price or bid. 

 

The only way to control the price creep is the same as the only way to control power creep and that is to put ultimate limits on things. Just as they did when they introduced enhancement diversification, or just as they did when capping defense or resistances or the total amount of bonus damage you can do etc. Rather then looking at nerfing the reward in AE what they should have done was to buff the earning potential in real gameplay. Make a conversion for 1 merit to equal 1 million influence. So not only can you buy merits but trade them in as well. Then lower the cost of the expensive stuff to what you think it should cost in millions, so like a purple is 30 merits or something like that. maybe 40. Now you have effectly boosted the buying power of regular players and set a cap effectively on the cost of building a character out that is manageable by everyone with about equal effort. 

[ivanhedgehog]

On 4/9/2020 at 4:35 PM, QuiJon said:

Which then drives up the prices. I mean as more people bid for that extra cash. I can commonly see IOs that have a last 5 history that will have like the top 2 at say 4m then one at 2m and then one more at 3m and the lowest at 1. But people posting new items also see that history so they have no encentive to look and say "oh well it should really be about 2m" they look at see "oh many people will spend 4" and they post higher and eventually that history is now full of prices that are like 3.5m and up instead of 2m and down. Boom the market has just been effected and driven up by people with an abundance of influence. 

 

This can not be changed by only addressing 1 aspect of the game that causes the influence piles. The market itself needs to be changed. They need to cap the ultimate price of something to a fair value, and make that an equal value across the board. So no matter if you save merits, sell converters or farm or whatever that item has a top value that allows everyone and equal shot at buying it for an equal amount of effort. 

We already have that fairness. If you kill 1 lvl 50 boss at +0 you get x inf. if you kill the same boss at +4 you get x+y inf. If you kill 100 of the same boss at +4  you get 100(x+y). Its the same for everyone. its fair.

[ivanhedgehog]

7 hours ago, BigGotter said:

I really would like to see this whole mess fixed right once and for all. From what I've been reading in these forums, the whole community is divided now on the subject of nerfing influence.  I myself have hardly logged any game time since the patch release, instead I sit in the forums looking, waiting for answers. Where are we headed? How can we fix this so everyone can have fun again?   Putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari will slow it down, but then all you end up with is a fancy looking Prius.

If you find that quick fix, patent it.

[ivanhedgehog]

sorry im dupin posts now..gone to the americans

Edited April 10, 2020 by ivanhedgehog

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, BigGotter said:

I'm good with fixing the exploit. I can accept the influence nerf. What troubles me now is the value of influence has changed to make it profitable to sell outside the game. Yes if they get caught it will be delt with swiftly, but now you have to police things, devote more time and resouces to tracking down the ones doing it. And if they get caught, who cares, build another account and your back in business.  At least with the influence higher, it kept things in check in the world wide economy. Trust me

huh?

 

You are saying that removing the exploit has made Gold Farming in COX Homecomming a thing?

 

That's a big claim.   Any evidence that -

A) Gold Farming is now a thing?  

B) Its linked to this Exploit being closed.  

 

 

[SwitchFade]

2 hours ago, BigGotter said:

Ok, back on live, there were rouge websites people could go to and buy influence for CoH. A simple transaction of cash for influence was made thru paypal, or whatever. A time and place to meet was set up and a few minuets later you would have 100 million influence delivered to your toon.  That was back in the early times when influence was hard to make. Move on up to present day pre patch and earning influence was easy to come by, even doing regular door missions. Therefore putting the places selling influence out of business or at least in check.  Now, since the patch has reduced the amount of influence that people are getting, it has opend the door again for these rouge websites.  Hope that all makes better sence. 

This is wild speculation. Is it Friday? Are we being trolled?

[golstat2003]

3 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

huh?

 

You are saying that removing the exploit has made Gold Farming in COX Homecomming a thing?

 

That's a big claim.   Any evidence that -

A) Gold Farming is now a thing?  

B) Its linked to this Exploit being closed.  

 

 

I think he/she is pretty much pulling it out of one of their orifices.

 

I've seen nothing of gold selling on HC.

 

If he/she knows they can just send it to the devs the sellers will be dealt with.

 

It absolutely has jack shite to do with the exploit the devs just closed. Gold sellers are gonna try to sell gold no matter what the rate of that gold generation is in any game.

[SwitchFade]

2 hours ago, BigGotter said:

lol, actually, I kinda threw that is as a poke at the guy a few posts up that keeps saying to trust him. 

So, you suggestively insulted someone who has significant experience and wisdom in the matter at hand and is attempting to save people time and you expect to have credibility?

 

That's... Interesting.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, QuiJon said:

Not true, as has been said people spend like 20 minutes working the market a day and earn a billion a week in influence. However now if I farm 20 minutes a day I likely will barely break 200m, if someone spends time doing 1 TF a day they likely will earn maybe 20 or so million for that TF. 

 

The problem is what people consider effort. For some reason gaming a market is considered "playing the game" where actually using your characters and hitting buttons and powers if it was being done in a AE mission that was repeatable was not. And the point of my first example was not to say 2m is a big amount of influence. It was to show how the powers creep up. And as they creep up, even if someone like you lists something for cheap, it will still end up being the odd man in the history listing and people wont consider it a valid price or bid. 

 

The only way to control the price creep is the same as the only way to control power creep and that is to put ultimate limits on things. Just as they did when they introduced enhancement diversification, or just as they did when capping defense or resistances or the total amount of bonus damage you can do etc. Rather then looking at nerfing the reward in AE what they should have done was to buff the earning potential in real gameplay. Make a conversion for 1 merit to equal 1 million influence. So not only can you buy merits but trade them in as well. Then lower the cost of the expensive stuff to what you think it should cost in millions, so like a purple is 30 merits or something like that. maybe 40. Now you have effectly boosted the buying power of regular players and set a cap effectively on the cost of building a character out that is manageable by everyone with about equal effort. 

You are conflating trading with money creation and somehow saying all income works the same way.

 

Being able to trade merits directly on the market would be fine.

 

That is essentially what the merits-converter-market is doing now.

 

Being able to turn them in directly for 1 mil influence would be inflationary.

 

 

[Haijinx]

A lot of this boils down to wants/needs/effort.

 

If you don't want to spend a ton of time earning in game money, then don't.  I don't. 

 

But don't expect to be able to afford dozens of high end builds.  

 

You can easily afford as many SO builds as you want just on inf income. 

 

So this only comes in when deciding on how many IO builds of what cost you want.

[MunkiLord]

2 hours ago, QuiJon said:

Not true, as has been said people spend like 20 minutes working the market a day and earn a billion a week in influence. However now if I farm 20 minutes a day I likely will barely break 200m, if someone spends time doing 1 TF a day they likely will earn maybe 20 or so million for that TF. 

 

 

If people want to spend 20 minutes a day to make a billion a week, then farming is the wrong kind of effort. Easy fix by doing something different. 

[Haijinx]

Just now, MunkiLord said:

If people want to spend 20 minutes a day to make a billion a week, then farming is the wrong kind of effort. Easy fix by doing something different. 

I'm sure this involves speculating on the market? Or Speculating+Crafting and so on.  

 

But is it 20 minutes at the start?  Or is there a front ended effort/learning/etc curve?

 

I imagine its something like - Acquire some capital - Start Speculating(and so on) - Make money - Reinvest 

 

So its only 20 minutes/billion at some reasonable maturity level.  

 

[MunkiLord]

15 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I'm sure this involves speculating on the market? Or Speculating+Crafting and so on.  

 

But is it 20 minutes at the start?  Or is there a front ended effort/learning/etc curve?

 

I imagine its something like - Acquire some capital - Start Speculating(and so on) - Make money - Reinvest 

 

So its only 20 minutes/billion at some reasonable maturity level.  

 

Yes at the start it's definitely not nearly that efficient, it takes time to figure out what works, the various quirks that can pop up, and so on. I spend more than twenty minutes a day to make my influence, but I do the in set conversion method and that's not as efficient as what some others do.

[Grouchybeast]

14 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I'm sure this involves speculating on the market? Or Speculating+Crafting and so on.  

 

But is it 20 minutes at the start?  Or is there a front ended effort/learning/etc curve?

 

There's a front ended effort/learning curve on any way of making inf faster in the game: marketeering, farming, speed-running for merits.  Marketeering is one of the easiest ones, since there are several extremely simple guides out there for how to get started in converter roulette.