What's the rule on full fledged rip offs of other IPs? Im seeing a lot of it

[Rune]

Back in 2004, Marvel did sue Cryptic Studios over City of Heroes since it was possible to create a character resembling their IP in the character creator.  From what I recall, Marvel lost.

 

That aside, it's up to the Homecoming team if they want to enforce players creating homages or even outright ripoff of established characters from Marvel, DC, etc.  Personally, I don't see much reason to given that this whole game is currently unauthorized anyway and carries its own risks.

 

I remember that time quite well.  Spent a lot of time harassing anyone I knew even remotely a Marvel fan.  LOL, good times.  And yeah.  Marvel lost big time, they've done well since then.

 

Technically, when events at the hearing swung against them, Marvel backed off and settled, and nobody but the parties involved know what the details of that settlement were, but Cryptic went out of their way to police rip offs so I have to assume that was a part of the deal.. that Cryptic would at least *try* to cut out obvious infringement.  They still generic people in Champions Online when they are reported too.

 

One assumes now that with Disney levels of legal power behind them, Infringement prevention would be even more important than ever. And Disney plays less nice than Marvel ever did.

[Doctor Brainbottle]

Saying "NCSoft could shut us down with a snap of their fingers, so we might as well infringe Disney IP while we're at it" is like saying "We've already pissed off all the bikers in this bar, so we might as well punch the cops too"

[Rizzano]

I don't think it's a problem because the homecoming servers aren't paid servers - meaning they aren't making any money off it. Let people have their fun.

[jubakumbi]

Saying "NCSoft could shut us down with a snap of their fingers, so we might as well infringe Disney IP while we're at it" is like saying "We've already pissed off all the bikers in this bar, so we might as well punch the cops too"

 

Saying the above is just spreading FUD.

Why are people so scared of things they don't understand? FUD.

 

So, kick out the FUD.

 

No violation is being made in a legal sense, all the players here are cosplayers if anything, becaue there are no copyright claims at the game is not being run for profit or using those IP characters to promote the game, etc.

Additionally, even IF Disney/Marvel decided to do anything, it would be the same as Champions or as it was in CoX - block the names and start reporting.

 

So long as HC does not pitch a battle or start a fight, the only entity to keep an eye on is NCSoft.

Based on current precedent and data, thay are letting us alone for now.

 

So, just go play the damn game and stop trying to get people upset, OK?

:)

 

[subbacultchas]

People don't owe other players originality. They are welcome to be as creative or not creative as they want to be, your expectations aside. This type of fear being spread is neither healthy, practical, nor based in any existing precedents.  If NCSoft does come for us, it won't be because of this. So please stop using that baseless fear as a means of attempted control of others.

[MunkiLord]

I feel it should be noted that when Marvel sued Cryptic they were a failing company, so they likely filed that lawsuit out of desperation.

[Sidious]

there is no threat. There is NO THREAT.

 

Everything is just in your head.

No one is coming to the servers saying the Assblaster79 has a costume that strongly resembles XXX hero.

 

Players are going to name, and create costumes of whoever they want.

 

You're just going to have to get over it or go play on a private server where you can moderate it.

Up to you.

[justicebeliever]

I guess I am missing the if it's ok to create a fan fiction hero and supergroup. Example I have created "he Green Lantern Corps" if that is an issue I would disband it ASAP. I had one in the 2004v called the Emerald Order and I just would like to know it will violate any rules. If so I will drop it like a bad habit and form something close. I would just like to know.

 

Hopefully amidst some of the strong voices that posted since you did, you've determined that Homecoming does not have a policy for or against using another companies heroes or ideas.

 

It is extremely unlikely that your doing so would rain down any headaches for anyone playing or hosting this game.

 

Great question - and thanks for being concerned about the community!

[RogDodge]

I was a bit worried that my GW characters from 40k would cause an issue, but alas nothing.

 

"The Emperor Protects!"

[eldriyth]

Mentioning this on a somewhat public forum is more "Attention" than if it was never discussed at all. You're trying to protect the game but you're also being a brainless twit too. Mods should just delete this crap post.

[Cuauhtemoc]

well Hell boys!!! Thank You very much...my keyboard is old and not working properly...have to hit buttons hard. Again I am on Everlasting @Green Nexus that is name of toon too Green Nexus

[justicebeliever]

Mentioning this on a somewhat public forum is more "Attention" than if it was never discussed at all. You're trying to protect the game but you're also being a brainless twit too. Mods should just delete this crap post.

 

I think being in Newsweek means that any attempt at secrecy has set sail.  Not sure name calling is productive, but maybe you are laboring under some impression that doing so will change minds, opinions or actions.

[SwitchFade]

Also,

 

Pie>cake.

 

Debate!

[Solvernia]

Recreating characters from other IPs is fun. And since nobody is profiting off of it, it's harmless. Marvel and DC are not going to sue private servers because they're not run by for-profit corporations.

 

In any case, just look at this complete lack of creativity!

 

[Healix]

My only reason for emulating a known character would be because they had some meaning for me, and would be a way of honoring them. On live, I created an SG called "Legends Live On" and it was for the descendants of well-known and beloved characters. Some of my toons were sister/daughter of Superman and Zorro, and members made some really creative 'relatives' of their favorite heroes/comic characters.

[Charistoph]

Recreating characters from other IPs is fun. And since nobody is profiting off of it, it's harmless. Marvel and DC are not going to sue private servers because they're not run by for-profit corporations.

 

Honestly, we don't know what they are going to do until they put out a statement themselves.  Blizzard has put legal actions on those same types of private servers which were not run by for-profit corporations.  My only point has been, it is best not to poke a bear you don't want the attention of.  This has nothing to do with FUD, but with just plain wisdom.

[Zolgar]

Recreating characters from other IPs is fun. And since nobody is profiting off of it, it's harmless. Marvel and DC are not going to sue private servers because they're not run by for-profit corporations.

 

Honestly, we don't know what they are going to do until they put out a statement themselves.  Blizzard has put legal actions on those same types of private servers which were not run by for-profit corporations.  My only point has been, it is best not to poke a bear you don't want the attention of.  This has nothing to do with FUD, but with just plain wisdom.

 

Yes, but here's the thing:

 

Private WoW server, even if not for profit, is seen as directly taking business away from Blizzard's official WoW servers. There is a very clear (if not entirely accurate) way to measure the financial damages from that copyright violation. If a private WoW server has 1500 accounts on it, that is $270,000 lost* annually to Blizzard (1500 accounts * $15/month * 12 months.)

 

There is no clear way to measure these things for players on a not-for-profit server creating likenesses of existing IPs. The old Marvel lawsuit was, as I recall it, because of two specific things- One, the EULA basically said that anything created on City of Heroes belonged to NCSoft. Two, if I recall right, Marvel was also claiming that the game was/could be using likenesses that belonged to Marvel for advertisement. (It's been some years since the lawsuit so I don't recall the precise details).

 

Again, this is not to say they CAN'T go after us, it's merely to point out that you are comparing two very different beasts, and that in all honesty the likelihood of the actually going after us is ... slim to none.

 

*You and I both know that a pretty significant portion of the people with accounts on a free WoW server either ALSO maintain an account on the official servers, or would not play WoW if they couldn't do so for free. This isn't how video game companies look at it though, they simply see the number of people playing without paying them. You see the same thing with all the piracy arguments.

[Solvernia]

Honestly, we don't know what they are going to do until they put out a statement themselves. Blizzard has put legal actions on those same types of private servers which were not run by for-profit corporations.

 

I don't think Blizzard has ever sued non-profit private servers of completely different games over copying their character designs. I don't think any company will ever do that. There's absolutely no legal basis in doing so.

 

Unless you unironically think Marvel would sue a kid for drawing a picture of Spiderman and showing it to his friends at school.

 

(That kid, by the way, is super uncreative. He should only draw his own superheroes he created himself! How dare he rip off other IPs!)

[justicebeliever]

Yes, but here's the thing:

 

Private WoW server, even if not for profit, is seen as directly taking business away from Blizzard's official WoW servers. There is a very clear (if not entirely accurate) way to measure the financial damages from that copyright violation. If a private WoW server has 1500 accounts on it, that is $270,000 lost* annually to Blizzard (1500 accounts * $15/month * 12 months.)

 

There is no clear way to measure these things for players on a not-for-profit server creating likenesses of existing IPs. The old Marvel lawsuit was, as I recall it, because of two specific things- One, the EULA basically said that anything created on City of Heroes belonged to NCSoft. Two, if I recall right, Marvel was also claiming that the game was/could be using likenesses that belonged to Marvel for advertisement. (It's been some years since the lawsuit so I don't recall the precise details).

 

Again, this is not to say they CAN'T go after us, it's merely to point out that you are comparing two very different beasts, and that in all honesty the likelihood of the actually going after us is ... slim to none.

 

*You and I both know that a pretty significant portion of the people with accounts on a free WoW server either ALSO maintain an account on the official servers, or would not play WoW if they couldn't do so for free. This isn't how video game companies look at it though, they simply see the number of people playing without paying them. You see the same thing with all the piracy arguments.

 

That's 100% right Zolgar - Taking NCSoft out of the equation for a second, also note that Marvel/Disney and DC/WB have their own Super Hero online universes, and could see a free to play CoH-reborn as a threat to their own profits.  While my motto is "don't poke the bear", I also think this scenario is unlikely to happen, and given HC's limited resources, difficult to police.  For me, I'm still not really worried about much exposure due to people playing as Cap or Supes.

[Solvernia]

also note that Marvel/Disney and DC/WB have their own Super Hero online universes, and could see a free to play CoH-reborn as a threat to their own profits.

 

If I make a free lemonade stand on the sidewalk in front of my house, is Minute Maid going to sue me for threatening their profits?

[justicebeliever]

also note that Marvel/Disney and DC/WB have their own Super Hero online universes, and could see a free to play CoH-reborn as a threat to their own profits.

 

If I make a free lemonade stand on the sidewalk in front of my house, is Minute Maid going to sue me for threatening their profits?

 

I don't know, does your lemonade stand have 90K customers getting free stolen Country Time?

 

That's 100% right Zolgar - Taking NCSoft out of the equation for a second, also note that Marvel/Disney and DC/WB have their own Super Hero online universes, and could see a free to play CoH-reborn as a threat to their own profits.  While my motto is "don't poke the bear", I also think this scenario is unlikely to happen, and given HC's limited resources, difficult to police.  For me, I'm still not really worried about much exposure due to people playing as Cap or Supes.

 

And I quoted my whole original response (not just a cherry picked part) for you and highlighted some selections that you might want to consider

[Solvernia]

I don't know, does your lemonade stand have 90K customers getting free stolen Country Time?

 

No, but I'm handing out free lemonade of my own creation that is based heavily on an old recipe for Country Time that they no longer produce.

 

Still doesn't give Minute Maid any right to sue me. Maybe Country Time can sue me, but they're not selling any kind of drinks in my town anymore, and I could easily claim fair use for that and other reasons.

[justicebeliever]

I don't know, does your lemonade stand have 90K customers getting free stolen Country Time?

 

No, but I'm handing out free lemonade of my own creation that is based heavily on an old recipe for Country Time that they no longer produce.

 

Still doesn't give Minute Maid any right to sue me. Maybe Country Time can sue me, but they're not selling any kind of drinks in my town anymore, and I could easily claim fair use for that and other reasons.

 

Wow!  That's a lot of free lemonade you are selling...Let me know if anything happens - I'm sure that'll be informative to other players who are looking to start their own lemonade stand - but sadly, completely irrelevant in this scenario.  Also, I am fairly sure if you are using stolen product, the Country Time can sue you, regardless of their sales strategy - but if they do, let us know what defense works...

 

Also - from the article you linked, but clearly, like my posts as well, did not read...

The new rules will be disappointing for average users who had hoped to get abandoned multiplayer games up and running again, just for fun. Albert told Motherboard that the Museum of Art and Digital Entertainment pushed to make these exemptions cover "affiliate archivists," allowing private citizens to contribute toward software preservation. "The Copyright Office specifically rejected that request," they said. "I think one of the things that they are concerned about is that the number of people who do this work should stay relatively small."

 

[Solvernia]

Also - from the article you linked, but clearly, like my posts as well, did not read...

 

"A huge tree grows from a tiny sprout;

A nine-story high terrace is built from heaps of earth.

A journey of thousand miles begins from the first step."

- Lao Tzu, chapter 64 of the Tao Te Ching

[Charistoph]

Yes, but here's the thing:

 

Private WoW server, even if not for profit, is seen as directly taking business away from Blizzard's official WoW servers. There is a very clear (if not entirely accurate) way to measure the financial damages from that copyright violation. If a private WoW server has 1500 accounts on it, that is $270,000 lost* annually to Blizzard (1500 accounts * $15/month * 12 months.)

 

There is no clear way to measure these things for players on a not-for-profit server creating likenesses of existing IPs. The old Marvel lawsuit was, as I recall it, because of two specific things- One, the EULA basically said that anything created on City of Heroes belonged to NCSoft. Two, if I recall right, Marvel was also claiming that the game was/could be using likenesses that belonged to Marvel for advertisement. (It's been some years since the lawsuit so I don't recall the precise details).

 

Again, this is not to say they CAN'T go after us, it's merely to point out that you are comparing two very different beasts, and that in all honesty the likelihood of the actually going after us is ... slim to none.

 

*You and I both know that a pretty significant portion of the people with accounts on a free WoW server either ALSO maintain an account on the official servers, or would not play WoW if they couldn't do so for free. This isn't how video game companies look at it though, they simply see the number of people playing without paying them. You see the same thing with all the piracy arguments.

 

I agree that the likelihood is small.  So is the likelihood of a sleeping bear to chase you through the forest, so long as you don't poke it.  I've said this before, and it bears repeating, legal actions between corporations are often started by the big guys specifically to drain the funds, especially if they don't have a leg to stand on.  Right now, there isn't much, if any, in the way of precedent regarding this situation.  Do you think that the Homecoming group has the funds to to fight long enough in court to get a precedent in their favor ruled?

 

I don't think Blizzard has ever sued non-profit private servers of completely different games over copying their character designs. I don't think any company will ever do that. There's absolutely no legal basis in doing so.

 

Unless you unironically think Marvel would sue a kid for drawing a picture of Spiderman and showing it to his friends at school.

 

(That kid, by the way, is super uncreative. He should only draw his own superheroes he created himself! How dare he rip off other IPs!)

 

Do note I did not say, "sue".  I said, "legal actions", such as a Cease & Desist (which were the orders Blizzard put to them, though, I think that is a lawsuit, but I'm not a lawyer).

 

And part of the issue, and one that Homecoming is trying to be very open about avoiding, is about breaching that "non-profit" cap.  There has been legal actions put against groups that are non-profit because their donations reached a point that the plaintiff put forward the argument that they were actually operating at a profit.  I don't think it went very far, but those legal expenses definitely didn't help the non-profit maintain their organization.

 

Wisdom is learning from other people's mistakes.  Let's try to not be blind to corporate reality just because we think a corporation won't do something.