Dual Pistol secondaries?

[Magi 1]

Hello folks! I'm a long time blaster fan but I never really got to try Duel Pistols when it came out. I recently made a Dual Pistols/Ninja Training build, and found that while I love the pistols I have come to shake my head when I think of Ninja Training. (I hadn't tried it before and it fit the character theme of 'cyberpunk street-samurai')

Now I'm thinking about a re-roll but I don't know what would fit. Anyone got a good rundown for what would match well with Dual Pistols?

[Redlynne]

13 minutes ago, Magi 1 said:

Hello folks! I'm a long time blaster fan but I never really got to try Duel Pistols when it came out. I recently made a Dual Pistols/Ninja Training build, and found that while I love the pistols I have come to shake my head when I think of Ninja Training. (I hadn't tried it before and it fit the character theme of 'cyberpunk street-samurai')

Now I'm thinking about a re-roll but I don't know what would fit. Anyone got a good rundown for what would match well with Dual Pistols?

Could always switch from Blaster to Sentinel for a "proper" Ninjitsu experience with Dual Pistols ...

 

I'm personally biased towards playing Time Manipulation/Dual Pistols/Soul Mastery Defender ... but that's probably just me.

[Parabola]

6 hours ago, Redlynne said:

I'm personally biased towards playing Time Manipulation/Dual Pistols/Soul Mastery Defender ... but that's probably just me.

I played a time/dp defender up to the mid 40's (who was a reroll of the same sets on a corruptor) and I have now rerolled her again into a dp/temp blaster. The defender version was fun and powerful but I realised I just wanted to blast, it just fitted the concept better as much as anything.

 

OP, dp/temp/mace may be what you are looking for. Temp offers an extra aoe and some bonus recharge to fuel your ability to spray bullets around with abandon. You get an aoe chain early (ff+rech procs help when they are working properly) and it can get quite tough. My planned build will be more or less softcapped to s/l/e/ranged.

 

Most importantly I've found her a huge amount of fun to play. You operate from the edge of melee, jumping in for pbaoe, jumping out for the cone. Single target feels a bit slow but that isn't what she's for. And she looks damn cool doing it all :).

[oldskool]

Dual Pistols trades out Aim for Swap Ammo and it loses on some burst damage there.  I'd think pairing Dual Pistols with a secondary that includes Build-Up would be a welcome addition.  

Empty Clips and Bullet Rain can be a quickly recharging AoE damage combo but another AoE with decent coverage would be welcome too.  You can potentially skip Suppressive Fire and Piercing Rounds as a Blaster.  Both/Either have their uses but they aren't must haves without some specific gameplay elements in mind.

[Frostweaver]

As far as I am concerned, temporal and martial are both highly synergistic, and ice makes you nearly unkillable (although it doesn't add to your kill speed like tempoal/martial do)

Martial, while possibly the best, takes a LOT of experience (and preferably some knowledge in how to make macros) to really take advantage of it's boosts and synergies.

Temporal synergizes with everything. Just everything.

There are really not enough secondary effects in DP to really take advantage of energy. Energy melee is stronger with sets like cold and sonic where range games and power boost can multiply your abilities brutally.

 

Fire works fairly well like it does for every PBAOE nuke set, with nothing else to add to DP but maybe the flame/fire bullets theme. Fire is often better for sets that NEED extra damage sources or types. DP does not.

TA and devices simply offers more to a longer range set, and doesn't offer much at all to DP IMO, although some people love the whole trip mines and drone thing, I'd rather just be ripping them apart with the awesome gun-fu moves that boost your defense rather than spending five minutes setting up a minefield.

atomic is quite synergistic by adding more resist and heal to your decent defense potential.

Dark's focus on cones does not quite synergize as well as some.

 

Plants seems to work better at range as the animation on thorn burst just feels too long and it's got a nice cone focus like dark. Great for backing up something like beam rifle or sonic, not so great for DP.

Electricity is a powerful secondary on it's own merits but has little synergy.

 

You already know Ninja's problems

Edited April 20, 2020 by Frostweaver

[plainguy]

I have DP/fire, DP Traps, DP Kin DP Martial Combat. 

I also have a Archery Ninja Training but would work well as you mentioned with DP. The only problem with Ninja Training the Attacks go off but you don't see the weapon drawn sometimes. 

All these builds are soloing 3/8 setting..

 

I do enjoy out of silliness the Martial Combat slow motion kick. Its fun doing the kick and then shooting a mob that is in the air flying back. 

DP Traps a bit slow because of the setup sometimes.. But full defense capped.

 

I do have  build for a sentinel that is  DP super reflex that is fully defense capped.. Which is cool because it really, really puts you in the mix without the hassle of worrying about FFG of traps..

 

But again as mentioned all are doing 3/8 with some defense caps.

Edited April 20, 2020 by plainguy

[Camel]

Not seeing any love for Mental Manipulation. I have a former Fortunata Operative themed character named..... Un-Fortunata, total cyberpunk theme with a costume inspired by Trinity from The Matrix. Had a lot of fun nuking mobs with Ion + instant cast Hail of Bullets for what might be the best ‘burst’ in the game. Ion has a delay that practically matches the activation for Hail of Bullets, so when the damage for Ion hits you are doing damage with your nuke at the same time. 

[Saikochoro]

My vote is for martial combat. Dual pistols and martial combat are two peas in a pod. They were made for each other. 
 

Cast bullet rain on a mob from a distance, leap in with burst of speed, finish them off with hail of bullets and dragons tail. 
 

Finish off bosses with style. Eagles claw > ki push > storm kick > executioners shot. All in quick succession. 
 

This combo is the most fun I have had across all archetypes and powerset combos both pre and post snap.  It oozes style. It has very good AoE. What it lacks in single target it makes up for in flair. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Frostweaver]

5 hours ago, Camel said:

Not seeing any love for Mental Manipulation. I have a former Fortunata Operative themed character named..... Un-Fortunata, total cyberpunk theme with a costume inspired by Trinity from The Matrix. Had a lot of fun nuking mobs with Ion + instant cast Hail of Bullets for what might be the best ‘burst’ in the game. Ion has a delay that practically matches the activation for Hail of Bullets, so when the damage for Ion hits you are doing damage with your nuke at the same time. 

I just forgot about it. Easy enough to do.

[Crysis]

19 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Could always switch from Blaster to Sentinel for a "proper" Ninjitsu experience with Dual Pistols ...

 

I'm personally biased towards playing Time Manipulation/Dual Pistols/Soul Mastery Defender ... but that's probably just me.

Oh God don’t do that.  I have both a DP/SR and DP/Nin sentinel.  Like any DP fun to watch but the already lackluster damage of DP is annoyingly gutted on a Sent.  
 

DP/Time or DP/Rad Corruptor if you don’t want to be a Blaster.

 

But a DP/Tactical Arrow or DP/Martial Combat are both really effective Blasters.  DP/Martial is the quintessential John Wicke, Graviton Cleric or my personal fave MTV-era A3on Flux.

 

 

[Magi 1]

Dang, didn't expect this much of a turn-out!

Martial and Temporal seem like the go-to's, but I'll look at Psychic too.

 

Didn't even think about Corrupter. I think I need to go forum-diving again...

Thank you everyone!

[Frostweaver]

annoyingly lacksluster damage?

Are you sure you are talking about DP?

You know, those jagged lines with zapping noise, that's electric. and the big dark tentacles is dark.

The DP blaster is the guy standing in the middle of a spawn with everything lying down around him while the rest of the team is taking a knee from the LAST spawn, or waiting for their nuke to recharge.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Apparition]

6 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

annoyingly lacksluster damage?

Are you sure you are talking about DP?

You know, those jagged lines with zapping noise, that's electric. and the big dark tentacles is dark.

The DP blaster is the guy standing in the middle of a spawn with everything lying down around him while the rest of the team is taking a knee from the LAST spawn, or waiting for their nuke to recharge.

 

Yeah, "annoyingly lackluster damage" is more of a Sentinel issue than a DP issue.

[oldskool]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

Yeah, "annoyingly lackluster damage" is more of a Sentinel issue than a DP issue.

This side tangent is such a weird argument in the context of all of it.  

Dual Pistols is one of the only ranged sets in the game to not have both Aim and a Snipe.  You can literally design the exact same attack sequences across all the ATs with Dual Pistols.  The biggest exception is how one handles Suppressive Fire.  

Seeing as how Sentinels, Defenders, and Corruptors can all have a far easier time closing defensive gaps than Blasters, those ATs can explore a lot of damage in procs.  This is one of the rare sets where a Sentinel build using Dual Pistols can potentially do more damage in a purely ranged contest than its Blaster counterpart.  AoE will always be largely better on a Blaster, but the single target potential is a lot more blurry than it may look.  

[Frostweaver]

well, I gotta admit that big defense buff from your 'every ten second' nuke probably has something to do with my wonderful experiences with DP as a blaster 🙂

[Apparition]

7 minutes ago, oldskool said:

This side tangent is such a weird argument in the context of all of it.  

Dual Pistols is one of the only ranged sets in the game to not have both Aim and a Snipe.  You can literally design the exact same attack sequences across all the ATs with Dual Pistols.  The biggest exception is how one handles Suppressive Fire.  

Seeing as how Sentinels, Defenders, and Corruptors can all have a far easier time closing defensive gaps than Blasters, those ATs can explore a lot of damage in procs.  This is one of the rare sets where a Sentinel build using Dual Pistols can potentially do more damage in a purely ranged contest than its Blaster counterpart.  AoE will always be largely better on a Blaster, but the single target potential is a lot more blurry than it may look.  

 

I pretty much ignore damage procs for the most part because it is only a matter of time before they rightfully get nerfed to the ground.  I consider them more of a hack than a proper solution for more damage in most ATs. 

 

Blaster will always do more damage than Sentinels, even with Dual Pistols, simply because of the much greater AoE cap and the higher damage modifier.  More damage to more targets. 

[oldskool]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

I pretty much ignore damage procs for the most part because it is only a matter of time before they rightfully get nerfed to the ground.  I consider them more of a hack than a proper solution for more damage in most ATs. 

 

Blaster will always do more damage than Sentinels, even with Dual Pistols, simply because of the much greater AoE cap and the higher damage modifier.  More damage to more targets. 

May as well ignore all the tools available to the other ATs while you're at it. 

[Frostweaver]

I disagree about damage procs getting nerfed. On aoe's they tend to only affect a few, and on ST they just don't proc that much. Sure they are fun, but you are potentially giving up +33% aim, end savings, recharge, or accuracy to use 'em.

yes, a proc build can certainly help 'even out' low damage archetypes, but on high base damage archetypes like blasters, scrappers, and stalkers, DAMAGE procs are almost worthless or can actually actively slow down your orange number factory. that's why -resist, +rech, knockdown, and +build up procs are so much more popular.

Note: Procs cannot crit and are unaffected by damage boosts.

[Apparition]

38 minutes ago, oldskool said:

May as well ignore all the tools available to the other ATs while you're at it. 

 

Why?  The other tools aren't clearly overpowered and in need of a nerf like damage procs.

[Apparition]

22 minutes ago, Frostweaver said:

I disagree about damage procs getting nerfed. On aoe's they tend to only affect a few, and on ST they just don't proc that much. Sure they are fun, but you are potentially giving up +33% aim, end savings, recharge, or accuracy to use 'em.

yes, a proc build can certainly help 'even out' low damage archetypes, but on high base damage archetypes like blasters, scrappers, and stalkers, DAMAGE procs are almost worthless or can actually actively slow down your orange number factory. that's why -resist, +rech, knockdown, and +build up procs are so much more popular.

Note: Procs cannot crit and are unaffected by damage boosts.

 

The problem with procs aren't on the the high damage ATs, they're a very significant problem on low damage ATs.  They enable the low damage ATs to do as much damage, or perhaps even more, than the high damage ATs.  On top of that, the low damage ATs have better defense than the high damage ATs.  That's why you're seeing so many more Defenders than Corruptors as of late.  Why play a Corruptor when you can play a Defender with better damage and better defense?

[oldskool]

49 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Why?  The other tools aren't clearly overpowered and in need of a nerf like damage procs.

Why? Because other build decisions (e.g., Incarnates, Epics, etc.) can blur the lines on just how effective Dual Pistols can get with other ATs.  Defenders/Corruptors can potentially get Soul Drain to be available on cool down.  That makes for a huge replacement to the missing Aim.  

There is a noticeable damage difference for Sentinels that use Suppressive Fire rotationally as it gain significant damage and cooldown changes.  Even without procs, a Sentinel Dual Pistols build can still be competitive to Blaster single-target damage.  Complete build packages would change in favor of one AT over the other, but the lines can still be a little more blurry than they appear.  That can go out the window if you make a glass cannon Blaster and load up on all the damage options available.  Generally Blaster builds don't need to do that, but Sentinel builds can with impunity.  A few Defender/Corruptor build options aren't far behind. 

[Frostweaver]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

The problem with procs aren't on the the high damage ATs, they're a very significant problem on low damage ATs.  They enable the low damage ATs to do as much damage, or perhaps even more, than the high damage ATs.  On top of that, the low damage ATs have better defense than the high damage ATs.  That's why you're seeing so many more Defenders than Corruptors as of late.  Why play a Corruptor when you can play a Defender with better damage and better defense?

show me a defender with better damage than my blaster (outside of mid's) and I'll show you a real live unicorn. And corrupters can use exactly the same tricks.

[Redlynne]

Suppressive Fire    
HamiO: Endoplasm Exposure (+2 Acc/Mez)
Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic): Level 10
Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 10
Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic): Level 10
Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic): Level 20
Decimation - Chance of Build Up: Level 25

 

4 damage procs at (clamped) 90% chance to proc.

1 build up proc with a 36.11% chance to proc for 5.25s of buff duration.

 

Now take a look at how much damage Suppressive Fire does natively, and compare it to how much damage a damage proc will do per proc (90% chance) ... and do the math.

 

 

 

This is how you turn Suppressive Fire into a proc monster power that not only delivers a pile of damage (287 with 4 successful procs) while also delivering mezz (Stun or Hold depending on ammo type in use) which can be stacked.

 

And yes, I only discovered this recently ...

[Lockpick]

On 4/19/2020 at 10:11 PM, Magi 1 said:

Anyone got a good rundown for what would match well with Dual Pistols?

Everyone is giving great advice.  I have played many variations of DP and really enjoy DP/MC as a Blaster.  Kicking someone to the ground and then shooting them in the face is awesome.  Also, the Ki Push power is great.