Is Orbiting Death that useful for Tri Form?

[MrSnottyPants]

I have it, but I rarely turn it on.  I can get 1 or 2 ticks during the initial mire, but 2 ticks is not much damage.  After mire I switch to Nova and start in with the area attacks.  I do pop in and out of human during fights, but I can't see turning it on then.  For me, human is control and buffing, not damage.

 

Am I missing something?  Will I want it at higher levels (I just hit 31)?

[Redlynne]

The answer is that Orbiting Death is fantastic when someone else is acting as the Aggro Magnet™.  Orbiting Death does really high damage to herded masses of $Targets when you've slotted up Orbiting Death.  However, depending on how you want to build make sure you put a damage proc (or few) into it since when those damage procs happen it's like a critical hit for 10s worth of DoT happening all at once.

 

You can use your other attacks while in Human form and approaching the dogpile of (soon to be) XP that are focused on the Aggro Magnet™ and just let Orbiting Death help mess them over for you, knocking out slivers of damage remaining so you don't need to waste active click attacks on overkill damage and so on.  However, it is DEFINITELY a strategy best suited to being realized after you've gotten yourself fully slotted up to Level 50.

[Cybot X-22]

I would absolutely love to be able to use orbiting death with in dwarf form. Otherwise I wont bother taking it, for now.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Cybot X-22

[Microcosm]

Good on a human form; not good on a tri. You'll be spending too much time in other forms and the retoggle time is annoying.

[MrSnottyPants]

Yeah, I've given up on all but the stealth toggle cause it's a hassle to turn stuff back on.  And I just don't spend that much time in human.

 

I think I'd be better off just taking power pool picks to mule some more +resist, etc.

[Redlynne]

If you're constantly (multiple times per minute) flipping around between forms, then no ... Orbiting Death isn't going to be good for how you play your Warshade.

If, however, you've got an aggro magnet who can hold the attention of everything leaving you free to do "whatever" then you can totally stick with Human form for a while and use Orbiting Death to chew up piles of $Targets while also using other Human form powers ... but you need to "stay" in Human form in order for that to be a useful strategy/plan of attack.  Note that this gets a LOT easier to do in groups when you've got Eclipse, you just need to have some other Human form attack powers that you can build a repeating attack chain out of while using Orbiting Death to chew up HP on piles of $Targets (and then Stygian Circle for ... fuel ... when they drop).

 

Is it going to be "superior" to being in Nova and/or Dwarf form(s) while doing that?

DEPENDS ... on the situation, circumstances, team/league and a huge pile of other variables that are almost too numerous to calculate (let alone be willing to yield to spreadsheet math in a vacuum).

 

So if you're dedicated to the "play all three forms at once" style of play, then Orbiting Death may not be for you.  However, if you can settle in and stick with Human form for "a while" as someone else plays Aggro Magnet for you, Orbiting Death can be a rather significant source of damage production at very little endurance cost ... it just won't produce that damage "all at once" or quickly for you, but it DOES make a difference over time.

[MrSnottyPants]

Interesting - maybe I will hold onto it a bit longer.  I don't tend to have someone holding agro, but that could change.  I got some friends playing since we cannot boardgame anymore.  I've been inclined to play a blaster cause they fell into tank, dark corruptor, stalker - and blaster just filled a simple do-area-damage hole.  Maybe I should try WS with them...

 

Thanks for the input!

[Hopestar]

Sorry but Redlynne is wrong on this one. If you're not toggling between forms constantly, you're really not using Triform to its full extent. "Sticking with human form for awhile" is a sign that you just want to play a human-only instead. Toggles are almost pointless on a Triform except for +Res, +Def, etc. IOs in the resist/defense toggles which only requires 1 slot. Why? Because they waste a lot of time turning on toggles where you could be attacking or recovering and Orbiting simply doesn't do enough damage for the cost of staying in human form. Inky is the only exception where you can turn it on for a second and combine it with gravitic emanation to stun a boss.

[Redlynne]

4 hours ago, Hopestar said:

"Sticking with human form for awhile" is a sign that you just want to play a human-only instead.

That's an overinterpretation.

There's a difference between "I can get away with staying in Human form RIGHT NOW" and the alternative of "I only want to be in Human form FOREVER" since one is a CHOICE depending on the situation while the other is a MANDATE imposed at the respec screen.

 

Sticking with Human form for a time does not ipso facto mean that you want to play a Human form ONLY build.  It just means that FOR THE MOMENT I'm not flipping around between forms, while still having the OPTION to flip around between forms if the situation calls for it.

 

The real point is picking the right tool for the job, depending on the circumstances at the time ... which is an extremely FLUID criteria, since circumstances change almost all the time.  Deciding whether or not you need to change forms constantly or if you can stick with one form for a while (even though you still have the other forms in reserve) does not mean you want to respec out of the other forms ... it just means that you're deciding not to use the other forms RIGHT NOW.

[dtj714]

Sure, turn it on and do /stancevillian whenever you’re just hanging out (at the trainer, waiting for a TF or trial, etc.) and look totally badass 😉

[MrSnottyPants]

I tried it with a group of friends and still didn't get the appeal.  Nova seems to be the quicker source of area damage.  But I haven't built out other sources of human damage - that'd make sticking in human more appealing.

 

I could totally see using it dual form.

Edited May 5, 2020 by MrSnottyPants

[SwitchFade]

Orbiting debt is pretty much useless for a well built triformer.

 

You won't have slots to spare

 

You will have to turn it back on

 

You won't be in human long enough for it to work

 

You won't live long if you wait for it to work

 

It really should be a toggle that carries over to tank forms

[TNT]

I run a Tri-form WS. Orbiting Death is generally only used as a costume accessory and only has one of the ATO global procs slotted.  I will power it up at the beginning of a mission and then it is forgotten.  

 

If I was running Human-form only, it would be worthwhile. 

[golstat2003]

On 5/1/2020 at 11:04 AM, Redlynne said:

That's an overinterpretation.

There's a difference between "I can get away with staying in Human form RIGHT NOW" and the alternative of "I only want to be in Human form FOREVER" since one is a CHOICE depending on the situation while the other is a MANDATE imposed at the respec screen.

 

Sticking with Human form for a time does not ipso facto mean that you want to play a Human form ONLY build.  It just means that FOR THE MOMENT I'm not flipping around between forms, while still having the OPTION to flip around between forms if the situation calls for it.

 

The real point is picking the right tool for the job, depending on the circumstances at the time ... which is an extremely FLUID criteria, since circumstances change almost all the time.  Deciding whether or not you need to change forms constantly or if you can stick with one form for a while (even though you still have the other forms in reserve) does not mean you want to respec out of the other forms ... it just means that you're deciding not to use the other forms RIGHT NOW.

I'd argue a warshade is most powerful when they are constantly switching forms. I can't imagine playing one as human only for any extended amount of time. It's like gimping yourself. But to each their own.

[Zanthyna]

I wouldn't take it on a tri-form since it's basically like adding speed brakes.  I have a new bi-form which will be built for tanking as well as human form and I plan to take Orbiting Death for that. 

 

I remember when players use to be call it "Orbiting Debt"  because of how fast it would get you killed.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Zanthyna said:

I remember when players use to be call it "Orbiting Debt"  because of how fast it would get you killed.

Orbiting Death is one of those powers that NEEDS slots in order to do "useful things" for you.  Without slots (and without enhancement) the power is really lackluster.  However, because you can take Orbiting Death SO EARLY (Level 4!) there was always this biased assumption that it must be good for ... something ... early on, right?

 

Well ... kinda ... but not really ... maybe?

 

The problem is that Orbiting Death, on its own, unsupported by slots, enhancements and/or other power picks (I'm thinking Hover specifically!) just really isn't all that good.  You're paying a lot of endurance for a toggle that isn't doing all that much damage (single digits per tick) every 2 seconds.  So it's expensive and slow ... and draws aggro, which Human form isn't well equipped to deal with until MUCH later.  Early on, the best way to deal with aggro is to not have your feet/tentacles nailed to the floor.  Hovering/Flying above everything is the safest place to be from an avoiding/mitigating incoming damage standpoint ... and for the longest time (Issues 3-24 was it?) Warshades were LOCKED OUT of the Flight pool and therefore couldn't even get access to Hover/Fly AT ALL.

 

So Orbiting Debt would pull everything towards you, where you stood on the ground, and you'd have multiple $Targets trying to melee you (successfully) and their melee hits (for lots of damage!) would make short work of your Human form Warshade and then Bob's Your Intern at the hospital.

 

All of that WAS true.

The thing is, that as you level up and finish out your build it doesn't have to STAY TRUE forever ... but a lot of people took that "first taste" of the power, didn't like it, turned their noses up at it and then never looked back.  And as is rather typical, HOW you use the power (tactical positioning, etc.) has an enormous impact on how "effective" Orbiting Death is for you, in a solo context ... let alone how "effective" it can be for you in a Team context, since it is honestly best used in conjunction with a herding aggro magnet who is NOT you (see: Tanker/Brute).

 

However, when you actually slot up Orbiting Death and use it as a damage aura in the context of a "completed" build, it actually starts getting pretty respectable.  Take my most recent Warshade build where I can ultimately manage to start getting 18.32x5=91.6 Negative Energy damage every 10s per $Target (max 10 targets) with a 17.95% chance for 71.75 Smashing damage every ~10s at a cost of 6.6 endurance per 10s.  Used on a group of 10 $Targets, that yields a theoretical average damage (ignoring ToHit checks) of around 916+(71.75*0.1795*10)=1044.8 total damage every 10s ... at a cost of 6.6 endurance for those 10s.  That's a total damage production of 158.3 damage per endurance in that (10 targets) scenario ... which is REALLY GOOD ... and you don't have to spend extra animation time to produce it, it's a 20ft radius damage aura ... and that's not even including what Sunless Mire damage buffing will do to it.  Pile that on top of all the other damage you're doing with your attack(s) in Human form (and potentially the damage buffing you're adding to your Team if also running Assault from the Leadership pool) and you can start generating some pretty serious force multiplier numbers just by being "present" where the action is.

 

 

 

The moral of the story being that EARLY ON in your Warshade's life career, Orbiting Death will often times feel like more of a liability than an asset.  It's only later ... possibly MUCH later (like 40-50 later) when you've got the slots available to invest in Orbiting Death and you've got your protection scheme sorted out (usually Eclipse, but there are other options) that Orbiting Death can make a comeback into being a "useful" power in an overall integrated scheme for how to play and engage with your Warshade.  In that sense, Orbiting Death will often times wind up being something of a "late bloomer" of a power, despite being something that you can obtain as a power pick as early as Level 4.  The thing is that once you're Level 50 and have all your slots invested, you can Exemplar back down and Orbiting Death will STILL be way better than it ever was while you were leveling up the first time around.  So there is a sort of Jekyll vs Hyde quality to the power in terms of how it "ages" in the context of a build, and where it will finally "settle" into once you've reached Level 50 and have all of your powers slotted up the way you want them.

 

A lot of people think that Orbiting Death simply isn't worth the effort it takes in order to do all that.

They're wrong ... of course ... but it doesn't stop them from thinking they're right about it.  😉

[FundamentalyConfused]

I have my forms set to my numpad keys and they also change my power trays for me when I press one. I have my human form key set to change me back to human and toggle on SS and the cloak. I just press it twice to toggle both on. 
If you’re truly hell bent on getting some use out of it I’d recommend adding it to a human form keybind to toggle it on for you when you switch. It takes away all the difficulty of hunting for icons to toggle on. 

[chi1701]

On 5/5/2020 at 3:00 AM, SwitchFade said:

Orbiting debt is pretty much useless for a well built triformer.

 

You won't have slots to spare

 

You will have to turn it back on

 

You won't be in human long enough for it to work

 

You won't live long if you wait for it to work

 

It really should be a toggle that carries over to tank forms

Having orbital death in dwarf form would be awesome. But one can dream.

[CrazzieRedd]

Not very useful on tri-form, its a shame, because its the coolest looking ability in the game.