Things I wish I knew when I started...

[Grouchybeast]

11 hours ago, RialVestro said:

I already explained in that same post why it effects available set bonuses. If you don't have access to the POWER the enhancement is slotted into then you also won't have access to the bonus of the enhancements in that power. As long as you have access to the power then their enhancements stay the same.

You need to read more than the Overview section at the top of the page.  Scroll slightly further down to exemplaring effects on set bonuses.

 

This is the relevant section: Set Bonuses are always on, even if the power in which the Set is slotted isn't activated, and even if that power is greyed out due to exemplaring! However, you do start to lose the bonuses if you exemplar more than three levels under the level of the IOs in the Set.

 

Perhaps the GM was mistaken,  Perhaps you misunderstood what they said.  But Set IOs do work, and always have worked, exactly as @siolfir said.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[siolfir]

12 hours ago, RialVestro said:

That quote is directly from the link that was provided claiming it was wrong. Also one of the GMs broadcasted this in game just a couple days ago when someone was asking about enhancements during exemplaring in the help chat. So if I'm wrong then I guess GM_Cyclone must also be wrong.

 

You're the one who seems to think you know better how exemplaring works than the GMs, the wiki, and someone who is actually giving the correct information from those sources.

And, to continue the attribution of the quote: "Positron, July 7, 2006"

Here's another note: "Issue 9 was released to the Live Servers on May 1, 2007."

 

IOs were introduced with Issue 9.

 

So, since I already said: 

12 hours ago, siolfir said:

please provide evidence beyond an outdated quote from before IOs were ever a thing.

I'm going to just assume that you have nothing else to go by.

[Twisted Toon]

On 4/30/2020 at 4:55 PM, RialVestro said:

1. I tried to do IO's when I first got onto Homecoming. I was only able to slot 2 enhancements and then ran out of money to finish my slots.

On 4/30/2020 at 9:26 PM, gameboy1234 said:

Agree with this!  As a first character with no other sources of funding, IOs are quite expensive.  They are definitely money sinks.

Here's the way to make enough Inf to outfit your character with level 25 IOs (not sets) while you level up.

 

Auction all of your set recipes and all the rare and uncommon salvage. you won't need them to craft the IOs you'll be needing.

bid on the recipes and common salvage that you'll need. keep in mind that you'll probably have picked up a few bits of salvage that would be useful.

the Inf you'll get from auctioning the rare salvage alone should be enough to get the several recipes and the salvage to craft those recipes.

Don't bid on any IOs above level 25. the crafting cost for making IOs increases with the level of the IO.

If you can find crafted IOs for about the same as it would cost you to get the recipes, salvage and craft the IOs yourself, go for it.

 

I do all that with my AR/Dev Blaster and am able to add new level 25 IOs when needed (when she levels) without resorting to funding from my level 50s.

 

Now, if I were to go the attuned IO set route, I'd need funding from my alts. level 25 IOs? not a problem.

and that 1.3% per enhancement(or 4% combined) difference between level 25 IOs and SOs is negligible.

[siolfir]

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

I highly doubt the GM was wrong but misunderstanding what was said may be a possibility. So why don't we try to clear up those misunderstandings if there are any, and clarify where we're getting confused rather than simply trying to prove who's wrong.

There may have been a misunderstanding, they may also have been wrong: GMs (and the devs) are human and can make mistakes (or just be ignorant) as well. My posts about this aren't to try to prove "who's wrong" but, since the thread is for helping newcomers, to not allow wrong information to propagate until, like this, people believe it is true without testing and discerning things for themselves.

 

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

How can a bonus from a power that has been greyed out still work if the power itself doesn't work?

I didn't believe this was true until I tested it, because logically it makes no sense to get set bonuses on a power that's greyed out. But I tested it, and kept the set bonuses for powers that were unavailable. That's why I told you to bring back proof, to make you test it yourself. Seeing is believing.

 

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

According to that quote there's a 3 level difference for IO sets and it also says BELOW the exemplared level rather than ABOVE which doesn't even make sense. A higher level character should never have enhancements that are BELOW the exemplared level as they would also be BELOW their actual combat level. And this does seem to be talking about the level of the enhancement not the level in which it was slotted as the quote I posted earlier stated that wouldn't matter. 

Let's look at what you quoted again:

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

However, you do start to lose the bonuses if you exemplar more than three levels under the level of the IOs in the Set.

Specifically, the part that reads "you exemplar more than three levels under" - you exemplar meaning that your combat level changes to more than 3 levels under the levels of the IO in the set. So it's saying that your IO set bonuses turn off if the level of the IOs is 4+ levels above your combat level. And we've always been talking about the levels of the IOs themselves: even attuned IOs have levels, they just match your level until you hit one of the boundaries of the range that they can scale to.

 

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

1. I said that exemplaring does not effect enhancements with the assumption that your enhancements would actually be updated to your proper combat level.

And they aren't, the wiki article explains what actually happens to the enhancement values. Some might not be affected, some might, and how much depends on how many levels you're exemplaring. There isn't a quick answer for other than "saying that it doesn't affect enhancements at all is incorrect," which is what I was trying to get across. The discussion about set bonuses came up on the side because it's counterintuitive and may affect people's builds if they think that they have to take certain powers early to keep the set bonuses when they exemplar, and they don't have to.

 

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

2. It was my understanding that we were talking about the level in which the enhancement was placed into that slot meaning an enhancement placed at level 50 would stop working if you exemplored down to 46 or lower which is simply not true. It's the level of the enhancement that makes the difference not when you slotted it.

This is correct - it's the level of the enhancement for TO, DO, SO, and IOs. IOs have different values based on their level, the others have different values based on your level relative to the level of the enhancement. What level you put the enhancement in the slot is never tracked.

 

 

[Peacemoon]

Here’s a useful tip:
Endurance recovery and health regen are not fixed numbers but a % of your max endurance and health. So if you raise your max endurance you will increase your endurance recovery rate in real terms. Even small numbers can help a lot.

Raising max endurance = amplifying ALL sources of end recovery.

 

e.g. If you get 2end/sec at 100 endurance, you will get 2.2end/sec at 110. Likewise If you get 4end/sec it will become 4.4end/sec at 110. The more endurance recovery you have, the more you’ll get, in real terms, by raising your max end.

So if endurance is still being a pain then get the two accolade badges that each raise max endurance by 5. It helps a lot with boosting endurance recovery. There are also some rare set bonuses that will raise max end (most just do +end recovery).

 

And endurance consumption is not based off of max endurance, so toggle numbers won’t get inflated by a higher max endurance, only endurance recovery. 

 

The two accolades:
For the Atlas Medallion run the Moonfire TF in Striga Isle, it will net you almost all your Vampyr and Werewolf defeats and then all you need is a few exploration and a history (see the wiki for details)

For Portal Jockey (40+, unless you do someone else’s missions) do Tina Macintyre’s missions (40-45) until you get the Hydra mission this will reward an exploration badge from the dimension you travel to (available via Ouro if you’re 45+)

Then do Maria Jenkins missions (40-50) - her long story arc will have you fight 13/14 Preatorian Villains, defeating them as Elite Bosses still count to the badge, and a lot of stuff can be stealthed. Then keep doing her missions and eventually she will give you one to defeat Siege, which will get you 14/14 Prae villains for the badge. Then eventually she will give you another one to defeat Nightstar on a rooftop, and this will reward you with the Shrouded exploration badge.

There is 1 quick history badge to collect and voila, the accolade!

 

Neither are too hard to get and can help a lot with endurance woes. I make sure to grab them on my characters, particularly if endurance is an issue.
There are two more for +max health but that will be too much for this post. Just search for accolade badge powers. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Peacemoon

[Grouchybeast]

16 hours ago, RialVestro said:

How can a bonus from a power that has been greyed out still work if the power itself doesn't work?

 

I think I might have identified the source of the confusion.  IO Sets have two different types of bonuses.

 

Enhancement buffs: the buff an enhancement gives to the power in which it is slotted.  For example, a level 50 Thunderstrike Acc/Dam/Rech slotted into Blaze buffs the Accuracy, Damage and Recharge of Blaze by 21.2% each.  A a level 30 Thunderstrike Acc/Dam/Rech in Blaze buffs the Accuracy, Damage and Recharge of Blaze by 17.4% each.

 

Set bonuses: the extra bonuses that you get for slotting multiple parts of a set. This is a global buff, not specific to the power the set is slotted into.  For example, slotting three pieces of Mako's Bite into a Melee power increases maximum health by 1.5%.  Four pieces of Mako's Bite gives a 3% Damage buff that applies to all damage powers.  Six pieces of Mako's Bite gives a Ranged Defense bonues of 3.75% that is added to the character's total Ranged defense and a 1.875% Energy and Negative Energy Defence Bonus that is added to the charcter's totals for Energy Defence and Negative Energy Defense.

 

These second bonuses -- the set bonuses -- are the ones that will continue to work even if the power is greyed out.  These are the ones that will stop working if a character exemplars more than three levels below the level of the IO,

 

So, if a character has a full set of level 50 Mako's Bite slotted into Storm Kick (a power they took at level 2), and exemplars to level 46 or below, then all of the set bonuses will stop working.  They will not longer get the 1.5% increase in max health, the 3% damage buff, etc.  However, the Mako's Bite IOs will still provide the enhancement buffs to Storm Kick's Accuracy, Damage, etc. even if the set bonuses are not longer working.

 

If they have a full set of level 35 Mako's Bite slotted, they can exemplar right down to level 32 and still keep all the set bonuses,  However, they will lose all the set bonuses at level 31 or lower.

 

If they have a full set of Attuned Mako's Bite slotted, they can exemplar down to level 27 and keep all the set bonuses, because the level range of Mako's Bite is 30-50.  However, they will lose the set bonuses at level 26,

 

ETA: If the character with the Attuned Mako's Bite took Storm Kick at level 40, instead, then the power Storm Kick will be greyed out when exemplaring to level 34 or below.  At that point, the enhancement buffs are no longer relevant, because they don't have a power to buff.  However, the set bonuses will still be applied to the character at level 34, even though Storm Kick is now greyed out.  They will have access to the set bonuses unless they exemplar below level 27.

 

The enhancement buffs are also affected by exemplaring, but in a different way.  When a character is exemplared, the slotted set pieces will always buff the Accuracy, Damage etc of the power they're slotted into as long as the power is available.  However, the size off the enhancement buff may be affected by enhancement exemplar scaling.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[ArchVileTerror]

I mean, three different types, technically.  Proc Bonuses behave differently with Exemplar-ing from either the Enhancement Bonuses or the Set Bonuses.

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/18577-things-i-wish-i-knew-when-i-started/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-208058

[Grouchybeast]

8 hours ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I mean, three different types, technically.  Proc Bonuses behave differently with Exemplar-ing from either the Enhancement Bonuses or the Set Bonuses.

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/18577-things-i-wish-i-knew-when-i-started/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-208058

Very true, but I felt that we already have enough confusion happening here without adding even more confusing edge cases 😉

[Mister Mass]

On 5/1/2020 at 8:08 PM, Grouchybeast said:

 

This is wrong.  The stat bonues (Acc, Dam Def etc) from both SOs and IOs may be reduced by exemplaring according to a formula that I'm not going to get into right now.

 

[snip]

 

(@Unkk - I'm so sorry for derailing your thread, but I didn't want you to end up with a lot of confusing advice and bad information, and decide IO Sets were a waste of time.  IO sets are great!  Common IOs are great!  Do the University tutorial!)

Thanks Grouchy!  Point by point you outlined what I wanted to explain, but didn't find the time.  Thanks for taking the time to drop that huge information dump. 👍

[Herotu]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:40 PM, Unkk said:

If you have any suggestions for a new player, please let me know.  Several games I've played had tricks or tips that I didnt find out until almost at the max level, and I'd like to avoid that this time.   Last time I played City of Heroes, CoV wasnt out yet.

 

Thanks in advance.

Unkk

TBH you should find out a build with a solid, tried and tested pairing of powersets and use that. There are too many weak or crappy combinations to be experimenting, particularly when you're new. 
For my first combination I went with the old Controller Fire/Kinetics, knowing that it was used to farm level 50 maps way back in the decade-before-last - holy smokes... what did I do with my life?

[Sovera]

16 hours ago, Herotu said:

TBH you should find out a build with a solid, tried and tested pairing of powersets and use that. There are too many weak or crappy combinations to be experimenting, particularly when you're new. 
For my first combination I went with the old Controller Fire/Kinetics, knowing that it was used to farm level 50 maps way back in the decade-before-last - holy smokes... what did I do with my life?

Rolled a winning combo that pulverizes in solo mode and is fawned and fed peeled grapes by teams if joining one?

[Doc_Scorpion]

22 hours ago, Herotu said:

TBH you should find out a build with a solid, tried and tested pairing of powersets and use that.

Hard to do as the vast majority of builds out there are tricked out (read: expensive) endgame builds designed to play high level content, not leveling builds.
 

22 hours ago, Herotu said:

There are too many weak or crappy combinations to be experimenting, particularly when you're new. 

That presumes the player's goal is MAX POWAH rather than (for example) simply playing the game or having fun.  Agreed, MAX POWAH is a viable playstyle and that some people enjoy it (more power to them!)...  But it's a rather limited playstyle that can lead to myopia.

New players should be encouraged to experiment rather than being told (even by implication or suggestion) that there's One True Way to play.  (Narrator voice: There isn't.)

[Yoru-hime]

22 hours ago, Herotu said:

TBH you should find out a build with a solid, tried and tested pairing of powersets and use that. There are too many weak or crappy combinations to be experimenting, particularly when you're new. 
For my first combination I went with the old Controller Fire/Kinetics, knowing that it was used to farm level 50 maps way back in the decade-before-last - holy smokes... what did I do with my life?

I respectfully disagree with the above. This a game. Play the way that is fun for you. If you're here, odds are the only way you'll create a character that can't succeed and contribute in the basic game is by deliberately trying to fail. You may not be able to solo at max difficulty, but that's not necessary unless it's something you choose to strive for.

 

Discover for yourself what's fun. Maybe in the end, you'll decide, like Herotu, that you just HAVE to be playing the best powersets for maximum power and effectiveness. Maybe you'll just find that one powerset or AT that captures your heart and nothing else ever really compares. Maybe you'll find joy in playing quirky builds and combinations that no one else has ever tried. Maybe it'll be a blend of them all, depending on your mood. Whatever that answer is, if you're enjoying your time here (and being cool to others) then you're already doing things right.

 

If you hang around CoH, you're probably going to be making a lot of characters, so start with one that appeals to you and then let yourself experiment whenever the urge strikes you. Some of my favorite characters are ones that I saw someone talking about on the forums and thought "That sounds cool! I'll give that a shot."

 

One of the great things about CoH is that alternate characters are strongly encouraged. No one character needs to be a massive and continuous time investment to keep up with the Joneses. Sure, you can choose to devote a lot of time to a single character, but if you find one that you get to mid or even late-game and decide "this just isn't as much fun", shelving them shouldn't be utterly soul-crushing. Also, you have virtually unlimited character slots, so unless you just really want to re-use the name, you never have to delete one. Just set it aside and maybe down the road you'll decide to give it another try.

[Dazl]

It might be a good idea to check the AT forums at least. This will give you some good info about power sets so you can get a better idea of how certain combos work or don't work. You should still play what you want, but knowing what to expect going in might save some frustration.

[Grouchybeast]

16 hours ago, Yoru-hime said:

I respectfully disagree with the above. This a game. Play the way that is fun for you. If you're here, odds are the only way you'll create a character that can't succeed and contribute in the basic game is by deliberately trying to fail. You may not be able to solo at max difficulty, but that's not necessary unless it's something you choose to strive for.

 

Discover for yourself what's fun.

In other words: roll a Mastermind.  Then delete it at level 20, and try literally anything else. 😉

[Yoru-hime]

42 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

In other words: roll a Mastermind.  Then delete it at level 20, and try literally anything else. 😉

Yup, they should definitely roll a Peacebringer instead. 😉

[Grouchybeast]

7 hours ago, Yoru-hime said:

Yup, they should definitely roll a Peacebringer instead. 😉

If you look at it as the chance of a character making it to 50, MMs are actually worse than Peacebringers.  According to the March stats, 7.3% of Peacebringers rolled make it to 50, compared to 4.6% of MMs.

[EmmySky]

I usually use shards to make 2 copies if the T1 Alpha and maybe one or two of the T2 (depending on if the random number generator loves me or not). 

 

Certainly scroll down and see if components are quicker or easier to make with threads, but shards aren't completely useless.

 

And once Alpha is T4, unless you want to craft multiple Alphas, they can conveniently be turned into threads.  As long as you continue playing your level 50, regardless of the content, you will continue to receive random drops of shards and threads, so making multipe T4s for your incarnate slots is possible and sometimes useful for different scenarios.

[Yoru-hime]

I don't think it's a matter of managing the cooldown as swapping out to one that is best-suited to a given TF or Trial before it launches. I'd mostly see this for Destiny, but I suppose that if you know a teammate is going to be providing all the Endurance you could need for the next hour, you might swap out from Cardiac to a Musculature for the extra kick.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Yoru-hime
clarifcation

[Coyotedancer]

On 5/6/2020 at 5:19 AM, Yoru-hime said:

Yup, they should definitely roll a Peacebringer instead. 😉

 

Hey now.

Don't be hatin' on the seafood. >_<