Proposed Power Pool Makeover - Post-Origin

[Zepp]

I am looking at the origin pools and thinking that, frankly, many of the Pool Powers need some love. So, I thought I would look at what an overhaul of the Pool Power System would look like.

First of all, and I will likely get slammed as a power creep for posting this one, but I think that Hasten should be made inherent, unslottable, and auto at 70% recharge. This would mainly be a boon for control and support powersets, but it would also help DpS ATs a little. While I understand this would be power creep, It would also be targeted at the ATs that have been hit hardest by changes to the game over the year making DpS more powerful, while control and support became less powerful (especially in endgame) and required much more global recharge to remain viable.

 

Second, I would like to make all power pools standardized as:

 

T¹_a: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_b: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_c: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T²: Requires level 14, 1 pool power investment

T³: Requires level 20, 2 pool powers investment

 

Builds that are not in compliance with these requirements would continue to exist as is until respec.

 

Next, all damaging attacks would have their DpA adjusted.

Pool Power Tier	Primary Power Set Tier Equivalent
T1	T3
T2	T6
T3	T7

 

Next, there may need to be some fine-tuning of individual sets. --Only adjustments to non-origin pools are being written about--

 

Concealment:

Misdirection: Addition of +Placate and -Res IO sets (sets need to be developed)

Phase Shift: Add +Res (All Dmg) equivalent to Tough but only effective while intangible.

 

Fighting:

Power Pool Standardization and DpA adjustments would be sufficient for this set.

 

Flight:

Group Fly: Change from toggle to PBAoE (60s cooldown 120s effect). Remove the -Acc.

 

Leadership:

Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics: 20-25% reduction in Endurance Cost.

Victory Rush: Recharge reduction 300s->150s, duration increase 2s->10s.

 

Leaping:

Acrobatics: Add +Res (Immobilize, Stun, Smashing, Lethal). S/L Resistance equivalent to half of Tough.

 

Medicine:

If possible, decrease animation times in half.

Field Medic: Convert to Auto power. No change in effect.

 

Presence:

Pacify: Addition of +Placate IO sets (sets need to be developed)

Unrelenting: Recharge 600s->300s. Duration 30s->60s. +Dmg 25%->15%.

 

Speed:

Hasten: Moved to inherent, no longer in this pool.
Vibration: New power. +Spd (run), Semi-tangible (new state - can effect tangible and intangible foes. Can be affected by tangible and intangible foes). +Res (Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold) S/L equivalent to 25% Tough, E/N/F/C equivalent to 50% Tough.

Whirlwind: KB 2.08->0.03. -ToHit 15%. Addition of -Res IO sets (sets need to be developed).

 

Teleportation:

T¹_a: Recall: Can target ally or enemy, brings target to caster, never causes in-game aggro. Cast time around 3s (no interrupt), recharge around 4s.

T¹_b: Tactical Teleport: Range= 30', +Def (all [equivalent to Combat Jump]), +Res(Teleportation) duration 60s. Uses Jaunt animation. Recharge around 3-5s.

T¹_c: Group Teleport: Reduction in current Teleport endurance cost and animation time. Hover tar is 6s and cancelled by movement. Affects self, team, & pets within 30' range.

T²: Long-Range Teleport: Expand the number of choices to include most zones and current mission. Reduction in cast time by about 50%. [Consider adding an Ouroboros style portal for others to follow.]

T³: Teleport Assault: Chain attack (up to 10 targets). -Def, 50% chance for Mag 3 Fear, 10% chance for Mag 5 fear. (up to 10 targets).

Edited May 17, 2020 by Zepp

[Greycat]

I do not want inherent Hasten. I do not want it on my control or support powersets. It is not necessary, and I almost never take it. I do not want the (already described) power creep. Absolute *disagreement* with that. But I went into that on the other thread.

 

WIth that out of the way:

Part of the issue is relying on undeveloped IO sets. I wouldn't *mind* seeing other sets come up - I think we might see -res before "placate sets," given *just* how limited and specialized Placate use is (and I'm not sure I'd want to have to start thinking about "slotting placate."

 

1. Concealment - "Intangible." I'm assuming you're talking about Phase Shift, with this affecting you outside the 30s window. Eh. No real argument. Though you have it listed as  "only effective while intangible," which is... fairly wasted, I'd think. It would come into play so rarely that, at best, it becomes a set mule.

 

2. Flight - Group Fly. Part of the issue with this is it wearing off. Granted, part of the issue with the *current* Group Fly is that those doing the flying are a bit faster than those following, whether it's other players or MM pets. (There's a side issue of being lifted off the ground making you unable to use some powers.) Of course, people can fly "out of the bubble" and fall, too... I'd *lean* towards "group fly gives everyone the same flight speed" more than a change, but I'm not really invested either way.

 

3. Leadership - Rather than a straight up cost reduction, I think I'd rather see this get the Fighting attacks treatment. As you take more leadership toggles, you get more of a cost reduction - primarily due to this affecting support characters more.

 

4. Already talked about Speed.

 

5. Teleport - I get combining recall and tp foe. Not arguing over that, though it'd automatically trigger respecs on a lot of characters - likely bleeding over to Warshades, as well. However, just flat out removing team teleport... Don't remove a power. I *do* see this used (primarily with masterminds.) Don't remove the option to take it. (I've mentioned before, the devs on live tried that once with "unused" ("rarely" used) powers when revamping patron pools and practically had a mob form, pitchforks, torches and all. Thus, we now have five powers in pools.)

[Naraka]

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

First of all, and I will likely get slammed as a power creep for posting this one, but I think that Hasten should be made inherent, unslottable, and auto at 70% recharge. This would mainly be a boon for control and support powersets, but it would also help DpS ATs a little. While I understand this would be power creep, It would also be targeted at the ATs that have been hit hardest by changes to the game over the year making DpS more powerful, while control and support became less powerful (especially in endgame) and required much more global recharge to remain viable.

This has nothing to do with improving pool powers.  You don't make pool powers better by making them not needed.

 

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

Concealment:

Misdirection: Addition of +Placate and -Res IO sets (sets need to be developed)

Intangible: Add +Res (All Dmg) equivalent to Tough but only effective while intangible.

 

What would -Res IOs enhance?  The -resistance?  Only if the vast majority of powers that lower resistance get shaved to take into consideration that they can now be enhanced to their full effect.

 

Also, +res while intangible?  What does that even do?  You use Phase Shift so you don't get hit anymore.

 

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

Leadership:

Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics: 20-25% reduction in Endurance Cost.

Victory Rush: Recharge reduction 300s->150s, duration increase 2s->10s.

Why not just make them free?  Or better yet, why not have them increase recovery while on?  At the end of the day, people run these toggles and build to not notice their cost, why remove aspects of build considerations?  Making a build is suppose to be about choices and sacrifices.  Removing sacrifices removes choices.

 

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

Leaping:

Acrobatics: Add +Res (Immobilize, Stun, Smashing, Lethal). S/L Resistance equivalent to half of Tough.

So we can make up -res IO sets but not +mez protection IOs?  Or maybe you're running out of ideas so just look at what everyone plops in their build and strap that onto powers people don't often take?

 

Here's a different idea: Give Acrobatics a slightly lower END cost, make the END cost unenhanceable and add a global END discount to the power (like -20%) so at least when you're picking up Acrobatics, you're getting a unique effect rather than an effect another power pool already excels at.

 

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

Presence:

Pacify: Addition of +Placate IO sets (sets need to be developed)

Unrelenting: Recharge 600s->300s. Duration 30s->60s. +Dmg 25%->15%.

A Placate IO set!?  Who would bother except people using the power as a mule?  Why would we want to push for mule powers rather than just making the powers themselves attractive for some builds?

 

Personally speaking, I think they should just remove the ToHit check from Pacify and Provoke completely and let the powers function as is, but that's just me.

 

6 hours ago, Zepp said:

Speed:

Hasten: Moved to inherent, no longer in this pool.
Vibration: New power. +Spd (run), Semi-tangible (new state - can effect tangible and intangible foes. Can be affected by tangible and intangible foes). +Res (Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold) S/L equivalent to 25% Tough, E/N/F/C equivalent to 50% Tough.

Whirlwind: KB 2.08->0.03. -ToHit 15%. Addition of -Res IO sets (sets need to be developed).

 

Teleportation:

T¹_a: Recall: Can target ally or enemy, brings target to caster, never causes in-game aggro. Cast time around 3s (no interrupt), recharge around 4s.

T¹_b: Tactical Teleport: Range= 30', +Def (all [equivalent to Combat Jump]), +Res(Teleportation) duration 60s. Uses Jaunt animation. Recharge around 3-5s.

T¹_c: Teleport: Reduction in current endurance cost. Hover tar is cancelled by movement.

T²: Long-Range Teleport: Expand the number of choices to include most zones and current mission. Reduction in cast time by about 50%. [Consider adding an Ouroboros style portal for others to follow.]

T³: Teleport Assault: Chain attack (up to 10 targets).

Not a fan mostly because the changes are either aimed at filling out all the checkboxes of a meta-build (I feel, if you want to have a meta-build with capped def and resistances with high rech and min/max DPS, it should require effort and planning, not just grabbing any handful of powers and putting some slots in).  The changes to Teleport is ultimately unnecessary.  Yeah, you can roll TP foe and Recall into 1 power and maybe add in a new power in its place, but why would you need an AoE attack?  Who would even take it?  

[Greycat]

43 minutes ago, Naraka said:

So we can make up -res IO sets but not +mez protection IOs?

To be fair, that's pretty much just +def. Tack on the +status resist bonuses in sets.

 

Also, for the +res in Phase Shift - and it's rare enough I don't actually recall - was the change actually *implemented* to let phased entities fight each other? Still would be fairly rare.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

Not a fan mostly because the changes are either aimed at filling out all the checkboxes of a meta-build (I feel, if you want to have a meta-build with capped def and resistances with high rech and min/max DPS, it should require effort and planning, not just grabbing any handful of powers and putting some slots in).  The changes to Teleport is ultimately unnecessary.  Yeah, you can roll TP foe and Recall into 1 power and maybe add in a new power in its place, but why would you need an AoE attack?  Who would even take it?  

I really dont want to be that guy, but in the same paragraph you talked down about making changes suited to the meta, and then a sentence later talked down about adding a new flavorful power. The OP also described the pool attacks getting considerable damage increases, so this along with say Spring Attack would get some healthy boosts.

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

I do not want inherent Hasten. I do not want it on my control or support powersets. It is not necessary, and I almost never take it. I do not want the (already described) power creep. Absolute *disagreement* with that. But I went into that on the other thread.

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

This has nothing to do with improving pool powers.  You don't make pool powers better by making them not needed.

About the Hasten proposal.

I figured this would be the most controversial stand. The reason I looked at it the way I did was that you could either keep it the way it is, fine with that, but then you'd have to figure out a way to open a power up in the Speed Pool to bring it more in line with other travel power pools. You could keep it as is and make it an inherent, which would push people towards global recharge beyond what they need so they could get perma-Hasten. You can't really cut it for reasons outlined and discussed in another thread. I agree this is controversial, but I thought it was a reasonable stance, feel free to civilly disagree.

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

Part of the issue is relying on undeveloped IO sets. I wouldn't *mind* seeing other sets come up - I think we might see -res before "placate sets," given *just* how limited and specialized Placate use is (and I'm not sure I'd want to have to start thinking about "slotting placate."

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

What would -Res IOs enhance?  The -resistance?  Only if the vast majority of powers that lower resistance get shaved to take into consideration that they can now be enhanced to their full effect.

 

So we can make up -res IO sets but not +mez protection IOs?  Or maybe you're running out of ideas so just look at what everyone plops in their build and strap that onto powers people don't often take?

 

A Placate IO set!?  Who would bother except people using the power as a mule?  Why would we want to push for mule powers rather than just making the powers themselves attractive for some builds?

About proposed IO sets.

I think, if we see placate sets they will likely be 3-5 piece sets that help balance accuracy/range/end red./recharge/placate duration with a possible AoE placate, sleep proc, or threat reduction global effect in there. I've played a lot of Stalkers, and it may make placate a more attractive choice.

-Res, right now is a bit underwhelming. -Res sets would not require adjustments to existing powers.

+Mez Res sets I would be fine with as well.
Another possibly useful IO set may be a Fear set with a Chance for Immobilize proc in it.

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

1. Concealment - "Intangible." I'm assuming you're talking about Phase Shift, with this affecting you outside the 30s window. Eh. No real argument. Though you have it listed as  "only effective while intangible," which is... fairly wasted, I'd think. It would come into play so rarely that, at best, it becomes a set mule.

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Also, +res while intangible?  What does that even do?  You use Phase Shift so you don't get hit anymore.

About Intangibility.

The intangible effect is a bit underused at the moment, but Dimension Shift (among other powers) should allow second plane fighting. The +Res was suggested for this type of tactic, particularly for Grav Trollers & Doms, or parties where you have a friend that has a Grav Troller or Dom and you want to isolate a target for your Stalker. If you have other suggestions, I will take them into account. I adjusted the power name in the OP.

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

2. Flight - Group Fly. Part of the issue with this is it wearing off. Granted, part of the issue with the *current* Group Fly is that those doing the flying are a bit faster than those following, whether it's other players or MM pets. (There's a side issue of being lifted off the ground making you unable to use some powers.) Of course, people can fly "out of the bubble" and fall, too... I'd *lean* towards "group fly gives everyone the same flight speed" more than a change, but I'm not really invested either way.

About Group Fly.

I am not that invested in this change, just thought it would work functionally better than playing with the aura radius, flight speed modifiers, or whatnot.

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

3. Leadership - Rather than a straight up cost reduction, I think I'd rather see this get the Fighting attacks treatment. As you take more leadership toggles, you get more of a cost reduction - primarily due to this affecting support characters more.

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Why not just make them free?  Or better yet, why not have them increase recovery while on?  At the end of the day, people run these toggles and build to not notice their cost, why remove aspects of build considerations?  Making a build is suppose to be about choices and sacrifices.  Removing sacrifices removes choices.

About Leadership.

In terms of "making choices" it would still be a high cost. Right now Maneuver is twice as pricey as Hover. Bringing it down to 0.3/s would not be excessive. Weave and Stealth could actually use a trim as well, maybe down to 0.27. The cost reduction (10% if you have two Leadership toggles, 20% if you have three Leadership toggles) would also be an interesting way to address the issue.

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Here's a different idea: Give Acrobatics a slightly lower END cost, make the END cost unenhanceable and add a global END discount to the power (like -20%) so at least when you're picking up Acrobatics, you're getting a unique effect rather than an effect another power pool already excels at.

About Leaping.

I would definitely not go the route of unenhanceable Endurance cost, and a 20% Endurance discount is a little huge. I don't see how those fit into the theme of leaping though. You are going to have to sell this idea, because right now it does not sound like it is even close to being on equipoise with my proposal.

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Personally speaking, I think they should just remove the ToHit check from Pacify and Provoke completely and let the powers function as is, but that's just me.

About Presence.

I see your point, but at this point I do not think that would be sufficient as this is the least popular set by far.

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

Not a fan mostly because the changes are either aimed at filling out all the checkboxes of a meta-build (I feel, if you want to have a meta-build with capped def and resistances with high rech and min/max DPS, it should require effort and planning, not just grabbing any handful of powers and putting some slots in).

About Speed:

The concept behind the speed changes were to add a defensive power into the set to bring it in line with other movement pools, and to make it's top tier power a little more attractive with the current culture in the Homecoming community around KB. I went with res because it made thematic sense, it fills a hole in current pool choices, and it would not be a LotG mule. The Semi-Tangible state fits into the intangible changes suggested before to make Intangible plane fighting more viable.

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

5. Teleport - I get combining recall and tp foe. Not arguing over that, though it'd automatically trigger respecs on a lot of characters - likely bleeding over to Warshades, as well. However, just flat out removing team teleport... Don't remove a power. I *do* see this used (primarily with masterminds.) Don't remove the option to take it. (I've mentioned before, the devs on live tried that once with "unused" ("rarely" used) powers when revamping patron pools and practically had a mob form, pitchforks, torches and all. Thus, we now have five powers in pools.)

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

Not a fan mostly because the changes are either aimed at filling out all the checkboxes of a meta-build (I feel, if you want to have a meta-build with capped def and resistances with high rech and min/max DPS, it should require effort and planning, not just grabbing any handful of powers and putting some slots in).  The changes to Teleport is ultimately unnecessary.  Yeah, you can roll TP foe and Recall into 1 power and maybe add in a new power in its place, but why would you need an AoE attack?  Who would even take it?  

About Teleport.

7 hours ago, Zepp said:

Builds that are not in compliance with these requirements would continue to exist as is until respec.

That answers one of your questions.

As for the TP overhaul, that goes back to another thread, and I actually should have thanked @Replacement, @GM Sijin, @General Idiot, & @Cooltastic for their ideas on this pool. These powers were chosen because they were well thought out and the majority in that discussion felt it was the best path forward.
Taking into consideration Masterminds, I would suggest that Pets automatically be teleported to the Hero's/Villain's destination when regular TP is used? That seems like a better choice than keeping group TP.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Zepp said:

Taking into consideration Masterminds, I would suggest that Pets automatically be teleported to the Hero's/Villain's destination when regular TP is used? That seems like a better choice than keeping group TP.

Nope, that also screws up gameplay if a mastermind is trying to position themselves using TP while sending their pets elsewhere. And that mention of masterminds was only *one* use case. I'll point out that it was useful enough we have a much wider area version of it in the Incandescence incarnate power tree.

 

Again, removing powers tends to be *bad.* The Recall/TP Foe gets a pass on that because it's combining versus actually removing.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I really dont want to be that guy, but in the same paragraph you talked down about making changes suited to the meta, and then a sentence later talked down about adding a new flavorful power. The OP also described the pool attacks getting considerable damage increases, so this along with say Spring Attack would get some healthy boosts.

But it's in the context of removing a power and replacing it with an attack.  Just because I see propositions playing into the hands of meta-gamers doesn't mean I'm also in favor of replacing one flavor of power for another flavor.  I guess there could be some semblance of hypocrisy in the overall post but there is very differing context that you'd have to overlook to get to that conclusion.

[Replacement]

I like the overall direction.  I like the idea of improving power pools.  Trap powers (Jump Kick) are traps, and that's dumb.  I really like your nerve, @Zepp, to go with t3 power for the t1s.  I know a lot of folks do not fundamentally like the idea of having the option to replace your own primary/secondary attacks with an equivalent functioning Pool attack, which will be a hard stop on this thread for those players.  

 

I'm not sold on some of your particulars, like the super speed one.  I'd still prefer to see Acrobatics gain a small, recurring Absorb shield instead of +resist.  You didn't explicitly call it out for Jump Kick/Flurry like you did Punch/Kick, but I'm assuming the changes to the former 2 are just the damage scalar you mentioned previously?  I'd also add to that: Triple Kick's Recharge (and damage, End cost, rider effects to match).

 

Teleport, you of course have me on board with.  4 dubious, niche utility powers, 1 frustrating travel power.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Zepp said:

About Intangibility.

The intangible effect is a bit underused at the moment, but Dimension Shift (among other powers) should allow second plane fighting. The +Res was suggested for this type of tactic, particularly for Grav Trollers & Doms, or parties where you have a friend that has a Grav Troller or Dom and you want to isolate a target for your Stalker. If you have other suggestions, I will take them into account. I adjusted the power name in the OP.

I feel that would be a whole other suggestion.  I like the idea of second plane fighting, and giving mobs a means of shifting between them gives them a means of surviving a volley of AoE as well as emphasize ST effectiveness but there'd be a whole other realm of discussion needed for that.  This wasn't really elaborated on in the OP, though.

 

1 hour ago, Zepp said:

About Leadership.

In terms of "making choices" it would still be a high cost. Right now Maneuver is twice as pricey as Hover. Bringing it down to 0.3/s would not be excessive. Weave and Stealth could actually use a trim as well, maybe down to 0.27. The cost reduction (10% if you have two Leadership toggles, 20% if you have three Leadership toggles) would also be an interesting way to address the issue.

One aspect that you're overlooking is the mez resist/protection that is rolled into it.  Sure, Maneuvers is 2x as Hover but you're also applying that defense bonus to a team within 60ft and the other toggles come with taunt, placate, confuse and fear resistance to you and allies and with the prevalence of mule power picks, it is a stackable effect that is often stacked on teams.  Leadership, in and of itself, is a rather broken concept for a pool power option that likely needs to be revised, not buffed.  Like those that use and run leadership only benefit from their own toggles but not other iterations of it from your team but those that don't take leadership benefit from all copies.  Maybe then, lowering the cost would seem fair...but having a team all running leadership for cheap and reaping huge benefits seems like a lapse in concept.

 

You didn't mention stealth in your OP but I wouldn't be against trimming the END cost of that power.  Weave I think is fine but I'd probably trade the Immobilize resist for defense debuff resist (just a little, like 18%).

 

2 hours ago, Zepp said:

About Leaping.

I would definitely not go the route of unenhanceable Endurance cost, and a 20% Endurance discount is a little huge. I don't see how those fit into the theme of leaping though. You are going to have to sell this idea, because right now it does not sound like it is even close to being on equipoise with my proposal.

For some, it's the only access to global END reduction outside of incarnate powers.  There are a few END Redux set bonuses which would be an avenue to build around vs always building the same way (+rech, +recovery).  Also, are you kidding?  Endurance reduction fits perfectly with acrobatics.  If you're acrobatic, normal movements aren't going to tire you as much.  I feel it's a lot more thematic than just +resistance which can be explained away in a variety of convoluted ways but ultimately is the same as a "shield" which isn't what being acrobatic is about.

 

Also, thinking about the ATs/combos that will aim for acrobatics, you've got your Dark Armor guys, you got your backline support and/or frontline bubblers and they are likely running various expensive toggles or have fewer slots to dedicate to maximizing their attacks.

 

Also also, considering you presented 2 other suggestions for +resist pool powers, it'd be putting way too many builds into the realm of capping resistances far too easily.  Capping resistances isn't something you should put in the hands of every build.  Yeah, IOs do that but exacerbating the problem isn't a solution.  At the very least, keeping the status quo would be better than slathering more +res options (and more mules for those +def uniques) throughout the pool powers.

 

 

[Zepp]

28 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I like the overall direction.  I like the idea of improving power pools.  Trap powers (Jump Kick) are traps, and that's dumb.  I really like your nerve, @Zepp, to go with t3 power for the t1s.  I know a lot of folks do not fundamentally like the idea of having the option to replace your own primary/secondary attacks with an equivalent functioning Pool attack, which will be a hard stop on this thread for those players.  

 

I'm not sold on some of your particulars, like the super speed one.  I'd still prefer to see Acrobatics gain a small, recurring Absorb shield instead of +resist.  You didn't explicitly call it out for Jump Kick/Flurry like you did Punch/Kick, but I'm assuming the changes to the former 2 are just the damage scalar you mentioned previously?  I'd also add to that: Triple Kick's Recharge (and damage, End cost, rider effects to match).

 

Teleport, you of course have me on board with.  4 dubious, niche utility powers, 1 frustrating travel power.

10 hours ago, Zepp said:

Next, all damaging attacks would have their DpA adjusted.

Pool Power Tier	Primary Power Set Tier Equivalent
T1 - Level 4	T3 - Level 2
T2 - Level 14	T6 - Level 12
T3 - Level 20	T7 - Level 18

Yah, I did state that all attacks would have DpA adjustments, so that includes Jump Kick/Flurry/Air Superiority/Spring Attack, etc. I am definitely on board with endurance cost, recharge times, and secondary effects being brought in line with powerset powers as well.

 

The reasoning behind this chart is, based on my proposed new availability levels, T¹ pool powers are available at level 4, T³ primary pool powers are available at level 2, so a power available at a later level should be relatively on par with the power from the prior level. I added the level availability to the chart to make the logic a tad more transparent. I understand the thinking behind people who want to handicap pool powers, but there is no logic behind that thinking. I welcome any rational arguments to support the idea of maintaining the pool attacks in their current ubernerfed incarnation, but you'll have to have some strong reasoning behind such an apparently weak argument.

 

I am open to changes to the proposal, just sell them. I went with the +Res to keep it similar to what it is currently and also thinking about how malleability allows for the body to better handle physical attacks. Why +Absorb?

[Replacement]

2 minutes ago, Zepp said:

I went with the +Res to keep it similar to what it is currently and also thinking about how malleability allows for the body to better handle physical attacks. Why +Absorb?

Speaking of logic, I have very little!  It always annoyed me that Super Jump requires you to often take small amounts of damage from changing levels.  A small recurring absorb on Acrobatics:

• It would achieve the same goal of added value to Acrobatics
• It would pair with SJ to smooth over that constant minor falling damage you're always taking (I understand this is an argument made from neurosis and not logic)
• Absorb and Resist both sell the idea of "turning a hit into a glancing blow" but a recurring Absorb tends more towards being knocked off balance by it, as successive blows are more effective until balance is re-obtained (the next +Absorb tick).
• Would just be different.  A new place for your Preventative Medicine instead of a new home for your Steadfast Protection. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Shifting topic: I'm under the impression the reason we never had any "Resistance Debuff" enhancements was tied to the whole... weirdness surrounding the Resist stat, and why it has to be flagged as "ignores buffs" all the time?  Maybe this can be untangled at some point, but I have a feeling we won't see this.

 

Placate IOs on the other hand!  I realize we don't really have many of these powers around, but I would be all for this and I don't know of any mechanical hurdles.  This has me thinking and it's a pretty fun direction.  We would need to add +placate enhancements first and even they are fun to think about.  Do we care about more duration?  What if the listed % was how big of a damage buff you'd give yourself for a few seconds instead?  What if it was % chance for your Placate to chain to another target?  What about all the cool Slot F enhancements we could get, like chance for aoe sleep on target, or chance to remove in-combat flag from self... This is fun!

[Zepp]

8 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Speaking of logic, I have very little!  It always annoyed me that Super Jump requires you to often take small amounts of damage from changing levels.  A small recurring absorb on Acrobatics:

• It would achieve the same goal of added value to Acrobatics
• It would pair with SJ to smooth over that constant minor falling damage you're always taking (I understand this is an argument made from neurosis and not logic)
• Absorb and Resist both sell the idea of "turning a hit into a glancing blow" but a recurring Absorb tends more towards being knocked off balance by it, as successive blows are more effective until balance is re-obtained (the next +Absorb tick).
• Would just be different.  A new place for your Preventative Medicine instead of a new home for your Steadfast Protection. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Shifting topic: I'm under the impression the reason we never had any "Resistance Debuff" enhancements was tied to the whole... weirdness surrounding the Resist stat, and why it has to be flagged as "ignores buffs" all the time?  Maybe this can be untangled at some point, but I have a feeling we won't see this.

 

Placate IOs on the other hand!  I realize we don't really have many of these powers around, but I would be all for this and I don't know of any mechanical hurdles.  This has me thinking and it's a pretty fun direction.  We would need to add +placate enhancements first and even they are fun to think about.  Do we care about more duration?  What if the listed % was how big of a damage buff you'd give yourself for a few seconds instead?  What if it was % chance for your Placate to chain to another target?  What about all the cool Slot F enhancements we could get, like chance for aoe sleep on target, or chance to remove in-combat flag from self... This is fun!

3 hours ago, Zepp said:

About proposed IO sets.

I think, if we see placate sets they will likely be 3-5 piece sets that help balance accuracy/range/end red./recharge/placate duration with a possible AoE placate, sleep proc, or threat reduction global effect in there. I've played a lot of Stalkers, and it may make placate a more attractive choice.

Did you miss my suggestion about Placate set procs? It doesn't seem to matter as we seem to have very similar ideas. I went with -threat global over chance to remove in-combat flag because it is less Stalker specific and would be great on my Ill/Storm troller. (I can be selfish sometimes) just thinking about -Threat from SI, -Threat from GI, -Threat from placate proc... I can attack a mob without aggroing the adjacent mobs already, I could probably get a minion down to half health without causing aggro with that proc! I mean it would be helpful for blasters, fenders, etc. as well.

 

I get where you are coming from with Super Jump's need for an absorb shield, but I'm actually thinking that might belong in Super Jump. That being said, I could also see a minor +regen being added to Acro in addition to the previous suggestion (with modifications for balance, of course).

 

I'm not sure about Resistance, it seems like a lot of people see it as being much more valuable than it actually is. I mean 45% Defense mitigates more damage than 85% Resist, but it is a lot harder to get to Resist hardcap than defense softcap. It also seems that most powers with -Res seem to have a higher opinion of the value of resistance than is deserved. I mean Blasters get to choose between sets that have -7% Defense or -13% Resistance, the -Defense sets are actually more powerful and can be buffed. Why would adding -Res enhancements be that major of a change to the game?

 

[Replacement]

I did indeed miss that in your follow-up post.  But all the same, I was just having fun thinking about what that would look like.  About losing the in-combat flag, I was specifically imagining blast ATs using it with Pacify to slow-snipe.  Might also allow re-triggering the +crit chance deal-io in Scrapper->Ninjutsu.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love -Resist IOs and sets.  I was hoping someone else would chime in with the specific issue Resist stuff has so I wouldn't be clouding your thread like I'm doing right now, which is saying "I think there's something mechanical in the coding that gets in the way of this, but I don't remember the specifics."

[Replacement]

I realize you're aiming high and I applaud it, @Zepp, but I'd also totally settle for an extra 1-2 points of Hold protection in Acrobatics.  I suppose if we added immobilize and stun like in your proposal, it would at least go well with Defiant Barrage (Blaster ATO).

13 hours ago, Zepp said:

Medicine:

If possible, decrease animation times in half.

Field Medic: Convert to Auto power. No change in effect.

Super agree.

[KelvinKole]

Focusing on the Presence power pool as it's the least taken and has the most room for improvement.

 

Problem Statement: The Presence power pool is statistically the least taken and offers little universal value across Archetypes.

Goal: Rework existing powers or introduce new abilities that provide strong reasons to take the power pool, regardless of AT. 

 

Proposal:

Pacify - Single target Placate is most likely to be taken by less durable archetypes, but is highly situational and provides no additional benefits beyond aggro drop of one target. I would propose replacing this ability with Combat Readiness. Combat Readiness is a new toggle ability that provides the user with +Def, resistance to immobilize, and resistance to Fear. Power statistics are similar to Combat Jumping and it enables access to Defense IOs. Resistance to Fear fills a void in many armor sets that don't have resistance to this more exotic status effect. Immobilize and Fear protection are universally beneficial to non-melee ATs.

 

Provoke - This power is fine as is. It provides access to AoE taunt for Scrappers and Masterminds that want to utilize that play style. 

 

Intimidate - Single target fear is also very situational and does not provide enough value to justify needing to take a 1st tier power to have access to this. I would propose replacing this ability with Unbreakable Focus. Unbreakable Focus is a new toggle ability that provides the user with resistance to Hold, Disorient, Confuse, and resistance to tohit debuffs. Cost is .26/s. Together with Combat Readiness, this provides non-melee ATs with much need status effect resistance but still offers some value to melee sets by providing resistance to another exotic form of CC and tohit debuff resistance. This could also provide some Psionic resistance or defense, to plug another common hole in armor sets, with an increase endurance cost. 

 

Unrelenting - This power is mostly fine as is, but should have its duration/recharge numbers tweaked to be more in line with other power pool abilities like Adrenal Booster and Unleash Potential. I propose keeping the 30s duration, and lowering the cooldown to 240s, to match Adrenal Booster.

Edited May 11, 2020 by KelvinKole

[Zepp]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:44 PM, KelvinKole said:

Focusing on the Presence power pool as it's the least taken and has the most room for improvement.

 

Problem Statement: The Presence power pool is statistically the least taken and offers little universal value across Archetypes.

Goal: Rework existing powers or introduce new abilities that provide strong reasons to take the power pool, regardless of AT. 

 

Proposal:

Pacify - Single target Placate is most likely to be taken by less durable archetypes, but is highly situational and provides no additional benefits beyond aggro drop of one target. I would propose replacing this ability with Combat Readiness. Combat Readiness is a new toggle ability that provides the user with +Def, resistance to immobilize, and resistance to Fear. Power statistics are similar to Combat Jumping and it enables access to Defense IOs. Resistance to Fear fills a void in many armor sets that don't have resistance to this more exotic status effect. Immobilize and Fear protection are universally beneficial to non-melee ATs.

 

Provoke - This power is fine as is. It provides access to AoE taunt for Scrappers and Masterminds that want to utilize that play style. 

 

Intimidate - Single target fear is also very situational and does not provide enough value to justify needing to take a 1st tier power to have access to this. I would propose replacing this ability with Unbreakable Focus. Unbreakable Focus is a new toggle ability that provides the user with resistance to Hold, Disorient, Confuse, and resistance to tohit debuffs. Cost is .26/s. Together with Combat Readiness, this provides non-melee ATs with much need status effect resistance but still offers some value to melee sets by providing resistance to another exotic form of CC and tohit debuff resistance. This could also provide some Psionic resistance or defense, to plug another common hole in armor sets, with an increase endurance cost. 

 

Unrelenting - This power is mostly fine as is, but should have its duration/recharge numbers tweaked to be more in line with other power pool abilities like Adrenal Booster and Unleash Potential. I propose keeping the 30s duration, and lowering the cooldown to 240s, to match Adrenal Booster.

I've seen some stalker builds that use Pacify as a second placate to increase damage. It can also be useful for squishies as is. As such, I am not sure I would want to remove it and replace it with another defensive toggle.

Fear is fairly underrated, but this is a useful soft control for sets without control. This is an ability that is more valuable when leveling than at lvl 50, which is why its popularity numbers may be deceptive when looking only at lvl 50 builds.
Your proposal for Unrelenting sounds reasonable.

[ZeeHero]

100% agreed with the OP, the only fix which is all positive for everyone is the one which makes Hasten inherent. Not wanting hasten inherent is either equal to not wanting any change to hasten, or being selfish.

[Zepp]

I modified the TP portion of the initial proposal to incorporate @Greycat's feedback

[Zepp]

49 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

100% agreed with the OP, the only fix which is all positive for everyone is the one which makes Hasten inherent. Not wanting hasten inherent is either equal to not wanting any change to hasten, or being selfish.

I think the only two options which would not require a massive reassessment of hundreds of powers are to make it inherent or to leave it as it is.

[Zeraphia]

On 5/8/2020 at 2:26 AM, Zepp said:

I am looking at the origin pools and thinking that, frankly, many of the Pool Powers need some love. So, I thought I would look at what an overhaul of the Pool Power System would look like.

First of all, and I will likely get slammed as a power creep for posting this one, but I think that Hasten should be made inherent, unslottable, and auto at 70% recharge. This would mainly be a boon for control and support powersets, but it would also help DpS ATs a little. While I understand this would be power creep, It would also be targeted at the ATs that have been hit hardest by changes to the game over the year making DpS more powerful, while control and support became less powerful (especially in endgame) and required much more global recharge to remain viable.

 

Second, I would like to make all power pools standardized as:

 

T¹_a: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_b: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_c: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T²: Requires level 14, 1 pool power investment

T³: Requires level 20, 2 pool powers investment

 

Builds that are not in compliance with these requirements would continue to exist as is until respec.

 

Next, all damaging attacks would have their DpA adjusted.

Pool Power Tier	Primary Power Set Tier Equivalent
T1	T3
T2	T6
T3	T7

 

Next, there may need to be some fine-tuning of individual sets. --Only adjustments to non-origin pools are being written about--

 

Concealment:

Misdirection: Addition of +Placate and -Res IO sets (sets need to be developed)

Phase Shift: Add +Res (All Dmg) equivalent to Tough but only effective while intangible.

 

Fighting:

Power Pool Standardization and DpA adjustments would be sufficient for this set.

 

Flight:

Group Fly: Change from toggle to PBAoE (60s cooldown 120s effect). Remove the -Acc.

 

Leadership:

Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics: 20-25% reduction in Endurance Cost.

Victory Rush: Recharge reduction 300s->150s, duration increase 2s->10s.

 

Leaping:

Acrobatics: Add +Res (Immobilize, Stun, Smashing, Lethal). S/L Resistance equivalent to half of Tough.

 

Medicine:

If possible, decrease animation times in half.

Field Medic: Convert to Auto power. No change in effect.

 

Presence:

Pacify: Addition of +Placate IO sets (sets need to be developed)

Unrelenting: Recharge 600s->300s. Duration 30s->60s. +Dmg 25%->15%.

 

Speed:

Hasten: Moved to inherent, no longer in this pool.
Vibration: New power. +Spd (run), Semi-tangible (new state - can effect tangible and intangible foes. Can be affected by tangible and intangible foes). +Res (Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold) S/L equivalent to 25% Tough, E/N/F/C equivalent to 50% Tough.

Whirlwind: KB 2.08->0.03. -ToHit 15%. Addition of -Res IO sets (sets need to be developed).

 

Teleportation:

T¹_a: Recall: Can target ally or enemy, brings target to caster, never causes in-game aggro. Cast time around 3s (no interrupt), recharge around 4s.

T¹_b: Tactical Teleport: Range= 30', +Def (all [equivalent to Combat Jump]), +Res(Teleportation) duration 60s. Uses Jaunt animation. Recharge around 3-5s.

T¹_c: Group Teleport: Reduction in current Teleport endurance cost and animation time. Hover tar is 6s and cancelled by movement. Affects self, team, & pets within 30' range.

T²: Long-Range Teleport: Expand the number of choices to include most zones and current mission. Reduction in cast time by about 50%. [Consider adding an Ouroboros style portal for others to follow.]

T³: Teleport Assault: Chain attack (up to 10 targets). -Def, 50% chance for Mag 3 Fear, 10% chance for Mag 5 fear. (up to 10 targets).

At first... I wanted to automatically just say no to Hasten being changed but honestly, yea, I get it. I kind of agree, Hasten can very well be made inherent if it was just a pure flat out 70% handed to you and kept the same way but always on without interrupting chains sounds quite decent honestly. +1 I like this ideas, though I think some of them may be a little unbalanced, great work though! 🙂