Please add more incarnate abilities

[Papias]

It would be really nice if at least one incarnate ability could be added every six months so that we can continue to increase our incarnate levels. If enough information is known about these intended abilities from the original developers, please follow their intent.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Papias

[Sakura Tenshi]

Six months was a time frame held by a full development team of some fifty or eighty people who were all professionals and had in-depth orientation with the code. We have little of that, our team is smaller, volunteers, and figuring out the code even still. Next there's potential animation matters and coding new powers.

 

Expanding on existing Incarnate powers is a maybe, but I don't see Genesis, Vitae, and Stance being something we'll see anytime in the near future.

[Greycat]

I don't think that we have "enough information" on what the other abilities were. Pretty much all we have are their names.

 

Plus, we were supposed to get (supposedly) harder-still content in the Batallion (and I want to say another "group," beyond Incarnate - what Prometheus is - but I don't recall if that was "post-Incarnate tree" or "full Incarnate enemies.")

 

Regardless, lot of work involved.

[MTeague]

There's SO much power creep in the game already.

I can't get behind adding Even More incarnate abilities until there's ALSO content that requires those abilties.

Even that I don't know I'd support this idea. 

 

This isn't WoW and I wouldn't expect to be playing just a few "Main's" in a constant chase for "Progression". 

[Snowdaze]

25 minutes ago, MTeague said:

There's SO much power creep in the game already.

I can't get behind adding Even More incarnate abilities until there's ALSO content that requires those abilties.

Even that I don't know I'd support this idea. 

 

This isn't WoW and I wouldn't expect to be playing just a few "Main's" in a constant chase for "Progression". 

QFT

[Burnt Toast]

There is no need for any further incarnate abilities until we can get further content to justify said abilities. 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

how about a new difficulty called incarnate. no minions just luits bosses and EB's?

[Chris24601]

20 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

how about a new difficulty called incarnate. no minions just luits bosses and EB's?

The problem is, not every group has EBs and bosses/EBs alone melt just as quickly to groups as weaker mobs.

 

The fundamental problem at the top end is that there is a MASSIVE disparity in power between;

 

- a fresh 50 toon with SOs and no incarnate powers.

-and-

- a one with full purple-set IO slotting and all the incarnate slots fitted with tier 4s.

 

Where exactly do you set the balance on that?

 

A 50 with SO’s and all incarnates at T4 will steamroll anything set for a fresh 50, but will get curb-stomped by content that would challenge one that also had full purple IOs on top of the full incarnate powers.

 

The main problem with the endgame right now is there’s too much disparity in the level of power there to get much consensus on the difficulty of content... and adding more incarnate powers would just INCREASE that disparity even further.

 

Honestly, before we even look at new incarnate powers, we need to figure how to make the current ones (and top-tier IO slotting) play well with others.

 

What’s needed isn’t JUST one tier of difficulty increase for incarnates; we actually need several to cover that range in a manner that would probably require being able to add attributes to existing mobs beyond just their level; things like buffs to to-hit, defense, damage, resist and mez protection.

 

The biggest issue at the high end is the way everything gets taken to extremes; You have to be accurate enough to hit the guy with 55% defense without just being auto-hit to the guy with <30% defense and, at the same time, deal enough damage to matter to a target with 90% resistance without one-shotting someone with <25% resistance...

 

...and to top it off you can have someone with both 90% resist and 55% defense on the same team as someone with both <30% resist and defense.

 

What will threaten the first will one-shot the second... what will threaten the second won’t even scratch the first.

 

I don’t even pretend to have an answer to that. Short of literally disabling set -bonuses and/or incarnate powers there’s no good way to bring the top and bottom ranges into line... and people who put the work into those things want to be able to use them.

 

The ONLY thing I could think of that might work (and be utterly HATED by a lot of people, probably even myself if I were honest... I like my 5 LotG and 5 Thunderstrike sets as much as the next guy) would be to;

 

A) put a hard cap on the degree to which set bonuses can be stacked (ex. say +25% defense from sets no matter how you slot to get there).

 

B) limit the use of incarnate powers outside of the content specifically created for them (ex. can only use the Alpha plus one other slot at a time outside of incarnate content with say, a five minute timer on swapping which incarnate power you’re using).

 

Like I said... that’d be hated and screamed about, but without something like that, all adding new incarnate powers would do is just make the end game balance issues even worse (conversely Alpha+1 would allow any number of incarnate powers to be added since they’d be balanced around using only one at a time).

[Saiyajinzoningen]

9 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

The problem is, not every group has EBs and bosses/EBs alone melt just as quickly to groups as weaker mobs.

 

The fundamental problem at the top end is that there is a MASSIVE disparity in power between;

 

- a fresh 50 toon with SOs and no incarnate powers.

-and-

- a one with full purple-set IO slotting and all the incarnate slots fitted with tier 4s.

 

Where exactly do you set the balance on that?

 

A 50 with SO’s and all incarnates at T4 will steamroll anything set for a fresh 50, but will get curb-stomped by content that would challenge one that also had full purple IOs on top of the full incarnate powers.

 

The main problem with the endgame right now is there’s too much disparity in the level of power there to get much consensus on the difficulty of content... and adding more incarnate powers would just INCREASE that disparity even further.

 

Honestly, before we even look at new incarnate powers, we need to figure how to make the current ones (and top-tier IO slotting) play well with others.

 

What’s needed isn’t JUST one tier of difficulty increase for incarnates; we actually need several to cover that range in a manner that would probably require being able to add attributes to existing mobs beyond just their level; things like buffs to to-hit, defense, damage, resist and mez protection.

 

The biggest issue at the high end is the way everything gets taken to extremes; You have to be accurate enough to hit the guy with 55% defense without just being auto-hit to the guy with <30% defense and, at the same time, deal enough damage to matter to a target with 90% resistance without one-shotting someone with <25% resistance...

 

...and to top it off you can have someone with both 90% resist and 55% defense on the same team as someone with both <30% resist and defense.

 

What will threaten the first will one-shot the second... what will threaten the second won’t even scratch the first.

 

I don’t even pretend to have an answer to that. Short of literally disabling set -bonuses and/or incarnate powers there’s no good way to bring the top and bottom ranges into line... and people who put the work into those things want to be able to use them.

 

The ONLY thing I could think of that might work (and be utterly HATED by a lot of people, probably even myself if I were honest... I like my 5 LotG and 5 Thunderstrike sets as much as the next guy) would be to;

 

A) put a hard cap on the degree to which set bonuses can be stacked (ex. say +25% defense from sets no matter how you slot to get there).

 

B) limit the use of incarnate powers outside of the content specifically created for them (ex. can only use the Alpha plus one other slot at a time outside of incarnate content with say, a five minute timer on swapping which incarnate power you’re using).

 

Like I said... that’d be hated and screamed about, but without something like that, all adding new incarnate powers would do is just make the end game balance issues even worse (conversely Alpha+1 would allow any number of incarnate powers to be added since they’d be balanced around using only one at a time).

Just because you are not wrong doesnt mean you are right. A good mix of buffers/debuffers/healers in mobs would help even the field. Right now as it stands most mobs only do a couple at most. also nerfs are never the answer.

[Troo]

On 5/23/2020 at 2:38 PM, Papias said:

It would be really nice if at least one incarnate ability could be added every six months so that we can continue to increase our incarnate levels. If enough information is known about these intended abilities from the original developers, please follow their intent.

We hear ya. We love the game too.

 

There is a lot that went into each issue. https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Issue_25  Expect a smaller slower pace with the free game supported by volunteers.

 

[SwitchFade]

First things first.

 

Nerf Regen.

[ninja surprise]

On 5/23/2020 at 3:38 PM, Papias said:

It would be really nice if at least one incarnate ability could be added every six months so that we can continue to increase our incarnate levels. If enough information is known about these intended abilities from the original developers, please follow their intent.

How about making a new toon and only crafting one incarnate every 6 months?  That'll keep you busy for a few years at least.

[drbuzzard]

On 5/25/2020 at 9:50 AM, SwitchFade said:

First things first.

 

Nerf Regen.

Doesn't that go without saying?