Teleport Pool now that /enterbasefrompasscode exists

[Doc_Scorpion]

23 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

When it comes to we, the players, the "health of the game" thing is only ever belief and conjecture and assumptions and predictions.   And (mostly) preference.

Until we can start seeing hard numbers, mapping them to a statical trend graph, and compare against a series of data

If you view "the health of game" as being merely an abstract collection of "hard numbers".  Sure.  But that's a very narrow and reductionistic view.  And it handwaves away the the "culture and mindset" question you yourself brought up.

[ImpousVileTerror]

That's a fair point.
We're still dealing with personal perspectives, though.  Objectively analysing a living culture is a difficult prospect.  It will ultimately come down to a judgement call on the parts of those who have the authority to elicit change.

 

Which, basically, is what I'm suggesting the Devs have done up to this point.  They've judged the situation, and prioritized other matters as more pressing.

[Dirge of Chaos]

I happen to really enjoy the enter from base passcode especially when it comes to player clubs/bars etc. When you want to roleplay it, you can walk to a point thats more appropriate to 'travel from'. Also when you have a base to work on or for roleplay campagns where you need to organize going between custom locations and set up scenes naturally, it cuts down on any potential 'out of character downtime' to break such scenes. Plus it seems like its something that can be 'ignored' if people dont want to use it but removing it would effect more people.

[Blackfeather]

15 minutes ago, Dirge of Chaos said:

I happen to really enjoy the enter from base passcode especially when it comes to player clubs/bars etc. When you want to roleplay it, you can walk to a point thats more appropriate to 'travel from'. Also when you have a base to work on or for roleplay campagns where you need to organize going between custom locations and set up scenes naturally, it cuts down on any potential 'out of character downtime' to break such scenes. Plus it seems like its something that can be 'ignored' if people dont want to use it but removing it would effect more people.

To my knowledge, the intention is to allow the slash command to exist to prevent breaking macros, but only to make it work near base portals. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept the command functioning the same inside bases due to this, though that's just guesswork. In tandem to this, I figure the HC team'll also be looking at improving the proper base portal powers, etc. Of course, all that takes some work to do, and it's probably low on the devs' to-do list.

[Blackfeather]

Adding to the above post, a screenshot from the HC Discord:

 

[Dirge of Chaos]

I'll be honest, I am new to the game, so i don't have the same level of high end or specific instance use experience so many of the other players have. I totally understand why someone wouldn't want this to be functioning in a zone set up for an active mission or especially in a pvp scenario as that defeats the risk of loss. I would agree there should be some way to prevent that. 

However for roleplayers I also see it as an invaluable tool for organization and coordination. it affords the freedom that wouldn't exist otherwise and can cut down on well trudging along to try to get things to work in an otherwise convoluted manner. 

On that same front, while I also think that noone should be criticized for not using it, I can also see the benefits for getting a group together at the same point TO start some activity where you wouldn't use it as part of it. If you are already going to be playing with those people, any tool to get that to work easier is A-Ok in my book rather than having everyone standing around idly. For example yesterday before I did a run with a friend on here for leveling, we all had to assemble at an area, i am very new and was a bit confused at how to get there and thought in grand total my diversion took less than 2 minutes... I could feel the frustration in some of the players responses. If there was a way to cut down on such things i wouldn't be opposed to it but yea I agree that using it in an exploitive way to say 'get out of being defeated in pvp' or 'warping out of a zone/mission you are supposed to be locked into for story reasons' isn't the best.

[Blackfeather]

1 minute ago, Dirge of Chaos said:

I'll be honest, I am new to the game, so i don't have the same level of high end or specific instance use experience so many of the other players have. I totally understand why someone wouldn't want this to be functioning in a zone set up for an active mission or especially in a pvp scenario as that defeats the risk of loss. I would agree there should be some way to prevent that. 

However for roleplayers I also see it as an invaluable tool for organization and coordination. it affords the freedom that wouldn't exist otherwise and can cut down on well trudging along to try to get things to work in an otherwise convoluted manner. 

On that same front, while I also think that noone should be criticized for not using it, I can also see the benefits for getting a group together at the same point TO start some activity where you wouldn't use it as part of it. If you are already going to be playing with those people, any tool to get that to work easier is A-Ok in my book rather than having everyone standing around idly. For example yesterday before I did a run with a friend on here for leveling, we all had to assemble at an area, i am very new and was a bit confused at how to get there and thought in grand total my diversion took less than 2 minutes... I could feel the frustration in some of the players responses. If there was a way to cut down on such things i wouldn't be opposed to it but yea I agree that using it in an exploitive way to say 'get out of being defeated in pvp' or 'warping out of a zone/mission you are supposed to be locked into for story reasons' isn't the best.

Hence why the restriction of the slash command will likely coincide with a QoL pass on the currently existing base teleportation powers, which effectively provides the same thing for RP purposes, but less efficiently at the moment due to its long cooldown times.

[Dirge of Chaos]

9 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Hence why the restriction of the slash command will likely coincide with a QoL pass on the currently existing base teleportation powers, which effectively provides the same thing for RP purposes, but less efficiently at the moment due to its long cooldown times.

You sadly threw a lot of words/acronyms I'm not familiar with yet. I apologize for not being as up to date on terminology yet however I was wondering with this 'system' would this reasonable hypothetical situation be possible? (Log into game, get message from friend to 'pick them up at pocket d for a night at jokers they are fashionably late for already. You logged in and urgh already at some other point in the world you last logged out of, no big deal. could you say
Warp to your base which maybe you have built as a 'flat/studio' to make some last minute adjustments to character wardrobe. Portal to pocket D to meet your friend, walk to the bar to pick them up and exit scene with them out of sight then be still able to somehow warp to Jokers without waiting for a mechanical cooldown?

[Blackfeather]

3 minutes ago, Dirge of Chaos said:

You sadly threw a lot of words/acronyms I'm not familiar with yet. I apologize for not being as up to date on terminology yet however I was wondering with this 'system' would this reasonable hypothetical situation be possible? (Log into game, get message from friend to 'pick them up at pocket d for a night at jokers they are fashionably late for already. You logged in and urgh already at some other point in the world you last logged out of, no big deal. could you say
Warp to your base which maybe you have built as a 'flat/studio' to make some last minute adjustments to character wardrobe. Portal to pocket D to meet your friend, walk to the bar to pick them up and exit scene with them out of sight then be still able to somehow warp to Jokers without waiting for a mechanical cooldown?

I can't answer that - whatever QoL (quality of life) updates that'll come to the base/mission teleportation powers are in the hands of the devs. We'll find out the specifics of what that entails when that happens, likely on the beta shards. Though I'm sure feedback from players such as yourself would be much appreciated by them when this does end up happening.

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

It does feel sometimes that CoH is gradually becoming more of a single-player or limited Co-Op game for me than an MMO, because of how restrictive I am on what teams I join.  I don't really have a good answer to that yet.  I'm still working through that.

I agree.  I have been teaming much less the past few months compared to last summer and fall.  Outside of the Rikti mothership raids that I run a couple of times a week, I have been almost exclusively soloing, and when I do team I am frequently reminded of why I stopped.  It’s gotten to the point where some weeks lately I only log on to run my MSRs or to do a TF or SF a friend on Discord asked me to join.

 

I don’t know.  Perhaps I should check out Rebirth.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Apparition

[Coyotedancer]

If other players' use of a fast-travel option is enough to make you stop playing the game... I have to wonder rather there's more going on than JUST the annoying travel power.

 

Burnout is a thing.

Been-there-done-that is a thing, too. Even with a game we love.

[Dirge of Chaos]

16 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

If other players' use of a fast-travel option is enough to make you stop playing the game... I have to wonder rather there's more going on than JUST the annoying travel power.

 

Burnout is a thing.

Been-there-done-that is a thing, too. Even with a game we love.

I would agree save for when it comes to things like its uses as a 'tactic' in PVP/Gameplay scenarios. That I am sure can cause so much frustration. I can get where the notions of it breaking the whole reason for those mechanics being something worth looking into changing. 

But yea if its just general frustration that its making it 'people aren't around as much cause they are always darting off to other bases and realms etc' then yea that wouldn't be a sentiment I could throw my support behind. 

I personally think it has a place, or rather there is a place for something that achieves the same result. Hmm, the other issue I can see is how much trouble would things be from a development point of view. It would be nice if say you could create specific bases/places and 'tag' them in a way where they would be able to be 'teleported to' like the base command. Something that has to be set so that its not everywhere to say give that option if you were to remove that functionality. I think some places like the nightclubs Jokers/Oasis/Afterhours etc would find it harder especially for newer players to participate if more barriers were put in the way. 

[SwitchFade]

Big picture is tough for most people. Long term strategy is not how most minds work. I spend my entire day forming, crafting, analyzing and moulding long term strategy that affects the course of hundreds of millions of dollars. Heed the wisdom or not, no long term net good will come from instant gratification culture changes. There's a reason why every society, group, entity, structure, game or body collapses in the long term when it gives in to the short-cut culture.

 

There's a reason I harp on things like insta base constantly. It's the same reason I slam AE, DFB and "omgzorz faster."

 

I couldn't care less about farming in PI, or MSR or ITF, there's a place for mid to late game excelerated play. Heck, AE has its place as well, just not in lvl 1-15 zones. Shoot, DFB would even be fine if it stopped at lvl 10.

 

HOWEVER, the moment we changed the culture to include AE from atlas, DFB constantly, DiB hot on its tails, exploitbasecode, ITF zerging... was the moment we engineered a culture change.

 

Look very carefully, because encouraging this kind of afk-insta-the-end gameplay is the point most common players will lose interest. Every activity goes through changes, but those that remain will be engaging and have longevity.

 

Every "don't tell me how to play" argument selfishly ignores the greatest common good, that having a growing, thriving community is the only actual path to an evolving, improving, EXISTING GAME. Statistics are there, every game or activity that changes it's design or culture to one of easy instant gratification rapidly loses any longevity.

 

How inconveniently terrible, REALLY, is it to have to jump, run or fly to the tram or base portal on the map? Leveling up to 15 WITHOUT DFB is really so terrible? Not having AE in Atlas would be so horrible?

 

The benefits of these things not being there for new players FAR outweighs the first-world-problems that most espouse.

 

The cusp is upon us, end the basecode exploit, stop the rush towards the exits, because every step we take down this path is exponential; eventually, we cannot return.

[Dirge of Chaos]

9 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Big picture is tough for most people. Long term strategy is not how most minds work. I spend my entire day forming, crafting, analyzing and moulding long term strategy that affects the course of hundreds of millions of dollars. Heed the wisdom or not, no long term net good will come from instant gratification culture changes. There's a reason why every society, group, entity, structure, game or body collapses in the long term when it gives in to the short-cut culture.

 

There's a reason I harp on things like insta base constantly. It's the same reason I slam AE, DFB and "omgzorz faster."

 

I couldn't care less about farming in PI, or MSR or ITF, there's a place for mid to late game excelerated play. Heck, AE has its place as well, just not in lvl 1-15 zones. Shoot, DFB would even be fine if it stopped at lvl 10.

 

HOWEVER, the moment we changed the culture to include AE from atlas, DFB constantly, DiB hot on its tails, exploitbasecode, ITF zerging... was the moment we engineered a culture change.

 

Look very carefully, because encouraging this kind of afk-insta-the-end gameplay is the point most common players will lose interest. Every activity goes through changes, but those that remain will be engaging and have longevity.

 

Every "don't tell me how to play" argument selfishly ignores the greatest common good, that having a growing, thriving community is the only actual path to an evolving, improving, EXISTING GAME. Statistics are there, every game or activity that changes it's design or culture to one of easy instant gratification rapidly loses any longevity.

 

How inconveniently terrible, REALLY, is it to have to jump, run or fly to the tram or base portal on the map? Leveling up to 15 WITHOUT DFB is really so terrible? Not having AE in Atlas would be so horrible?

 

The benefits of these things not being there for new players FAR outweighs the first-world-problems that most espouse.

 

The cusp is upon us, end the basecode exploit, stop the rush towards the exits, because every step we take down this path is exponential; eventually, we cannot return.

I do appreciate your point of view and experience both in and out of game and the sentiments you express. I just hope as well there will still be an option for some of these functions that others have grown to rely on for other means. There are some players who play this game without ever caring to level up because they got their character to a point thats suitable for their roleplay. That said, being dismissive with 'dont tell me how to play' can also be used to dismiss some people who legitimately play games in other ways that aren't mechanically exploiting things in ways that would effect other styles of play. Yes I will not defend people trying to argue in favor of an exploit that totally shatters the intent of a game, but it does feel like your argument doesn't make any notion of concerns for entirely unrelated playstyles.

[srmalloy]

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

People are doing this now with the mission and team teleports.  The primary issues with the slash command is that it is being used to escape deaths in PvP and Master of TF runs.  Turning it into an Oro-like portal that has a short animation and is interruptible solves those problems.

Putting in a check that makes it unavailable when you are in combat, using the same mechanism that disables travel powers in combat, does the same thing, and doesn't require creating new power animations and visuals.

[macskull]

5 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Certainly.  The question is whether a particular change or changes are healthy for the overall game or not.  I do not believe that HC's ever growing fetish for speed (in leveling, in completing missions, in travel, in kitting out uber-builds, in practically every facet of the game) to be healthy.

To be entirely fair, most of the "speed"-related Homecoming changes originated on the Resurgence server and were designed so the game would be functional and playable with a tiny population, and some of the changes have been toned down or rolled back since Homecoming launched. Take a look at, say, Rebirth or coxg, the highest-population I24-based servers, and see how long it takes to get IOs and incarnate powers on a single character. Even with Homecoming's population, the vanilla CoX experience would be downright awful compared to live.

Edited June 15, 2020 by macskull

[zenblack]

I feel this topic has lost it's way a little, though I am definitely with the stance that there is a way to have preferential play styles exist with the QoL direction that HC is attempting to provide, HC has sewn the seeds, let them grow and now are reaping the rewards of their procrastination regarding the change to the entire environment of the game, just like the Null decision.

 

I didn't intend it, but the weekly discussion topic is the Power Pools, so I feel that any ideas/offerings that we could provide here to help address the Teleport Power Pool would get more visibility than normal and I'd like to focus on that. While there is a vocal minority that thinks the Teleport Pool is not impacted by baseporting I think the consensus is that even without the baseporting, even if HC follows through with their promise to remove the command and put in some sort of restricted Power it will not change the need to adjust the Teleport pool.

 

Turning Teleport into beta Jaunt is a good idea however it is implemented balance wise, though I think that set itself was designed without having these free no-slot powers as a standard. I think there is room to remove at least 1 (my preference would be 2) powers from the pool and concentrate the current abilities among the remaining 3.

 

What would be good and thematic powers to fill up those slot(s) with? I feel that Teleport needs an attack power of some type. Based on how the teleportation mechanic (as we imagine it) works, I feel a "Disintegration" power that "teleports" pieces of the enemy away would be fitting. Doing a reasonable amount of damage as well as some sort of debuff. I also feel a Wormhole-ish power would also be thematically fitting. I don't want to take it away from Gravity Control because that is, by far, one of the coolest and fun powers of the set and I don't want to give people a reason to not choose to be gravity controllers simply because they have access to the Teleport pool but perhaps it could be used as an a anchor. Putting a debuff on enemies in an AOE that when it triggers (like every 5 seconds with a total duration of 11 seconds for 2 ticks) it pulls them back to that spot. This would allow players with Knockpack AOEs or powers to use them, blow everyone away then have them cluster up again if used in tandem with the power. This would also have the side effect of lessening the stigma of some Energy sets and Peacebringers.

Edited June 15, 2020 by zenblack
grammar and such

[MTeague]

52 minutes ago, zenblack said:

What would be good and thematic powers to fill up those slot(s) with? I feel that Teleport needs an attack power of some type. Based on how the teleportation mechanic (as we imagine it) works, I feel a "Disintegration" power that "teleports" pieces of the enemy away would be fitting.

Well, the most classic teleporting hero I can think of, is Nightcrawler.  

 

I admit, I haven't read the comics NEARLY as thoroughly as some have.  But I don't think he typically teleports parts of his enemies away.  He more does the BAMPH to get behind you, strike, and BAMPH away.  So I'm more in favor of [Burst of Speed] type mechanics (from Blaster / Martial Combat)

[zenblack]

4 hours ago, MTeague said:

Well, the most classic teleporting hero I can think of, is Nightcrawler.  

 

I admit, I haven't read the comics NEARLY as thoroughly as some have.  But I don't think he typically teleports parts of his enemies away.  He more does the BAMPH to get behind you, strike, and BAMPH away.  So I'm more in favor of [Burst of Speed] type mechanics (from Blaster / Martial Combat)

I agree. If you are talking about a hero who whose entire shtick is teleportation then he fits the bill. I think it's a good suggestion and it could include a disorient and since the mechanics are already coded into the game requires only a small development cost.

[Menelruin]

It's been mentioned in other threads, but to put Teleport more in line with other travel pools, it needs an attack power, a "lesser" version of itself to be used rapidly in combat (akin to what Experimentation gives), and the full version.  I've also suggested letting at least one power take either Resistance or Defense IO sets, but folks disliked that idea.....

[ShardWarrior]

16 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Putting in a check that makes it unavailable when you are in combat, using the same mechanism that disables travel powers in combat, does the same thing, and doesn't require creating new power animations and visuals.

This is not what the Homecoming folk have said they wanted with regard to players just disappearing.  That seems to ruin the immersion for some, so in the discussions on the subject, they have said the idea was an Oro-like portal ability.

[Dirge of Chaos]

I would love a 'blinking' teleport power set for characters as would so fit with some ideas I had that I am unable to make. That said still without wanting to become a broken record, I hope they at least keep some kind of way for people to warp to bases/zones even if there are restrictions of what areas you can use them in because it has become such an integral tool for role players going between areas/scenes of player created content.

[AxerJax]

There is very thoughtful discussion and suggestions here - and as a new teleporter, I completely agree with zenblack.

Also, thoughts on enterbasefrompasscode which are still, if not even more, relevant today. Remove that crap already, please.

 

But teleport tweaks are sorely needed.

[GM Tock]

This topic has been locked earlier after a horse zombification was attempted and failed.  

 

Thanks!