Super Strength damage without Rage

[ninja surprise]

Search terms are so generic I can't find if this has already been discussed:

 

Is Super Strength's damage without Rage really low? And SS with Rage above average?

 

Example: Compared vs Stone Melee or War Mace.

 

I'm leveling up a Bio/SS Tank (lvl 26 so far) and don't have much global recharge. I click Rage when fighting a big boss and run in Defensive almost all the time, unless team buffs are plentiful. 

Perspective being what it is, it's difficult to tell if I'm low damage due to un-Rage, not having fully slotted attacks, or Defensive -Dam debuff, or all combined, and if it'll get better.

[Warboss]

There was a thread about this on live, and if I remember correctly SS w/o Rage was not at the bottom, but more in the middle (maybe bottom of the middle?). Back then I think Ice Melee might have been at the bottom of the stack. So, based off that memory, I'd be inclined to say that without Rage it would be less than Stone Melee and War, but probably not terrible. Also, I think you'd get better damage sooner with Stone Melee. As both SS and WM seem to mature later in the game.

 

What might be interesting is run your numbers for Rageles SS, with Assault from Leadership and Assault from the incarnate powers. But, what make the SS set is Rage... so your call on how you want to play it.

[CaptainLupis]

It's been a while but isn't Rage the level 28 power on a tank?

 

Regardless I think it's a likely to be a combination of things, and going defensive is a big factor. Another is Super strengths lack of an AoE damage power until level 38. It's a bit of a slog getting there with just ST attacks as it feels weak. Personally I tend to just switch between offensive and efficient on my Bio/SS tank, I very rarely bother with defensive except in very dire circumstances, and then it's usually just to get the extra absorbtion HP from ablative carapace, then switch back after. But it's pretty rare that's required.

 

Yes, it'll get better, with more slots you'll feel less like you need to be in defensive, that'll help, more recharge will help and the AoE will help as you can concentrate on the bosses with the ST attacks while AoEing the minions, which speeds things up and makes it feel stronger. But I also use rage. I don't find the crash as annoying as many seem to. You can still do other things like use your bio powers, taunt etc during the downtime.

[Bopper]

Knockout Blow is very strong without Rage. Footstomp is strong without Rage (for its area of effect size). Everything else is low DPA. The T1-T3 all play a Tier low. Jab is worse than Boxing, Punch would be a mediocre T1 on other sets, and Haymaker would make an OK T2, but as a T3 is underwhelming. Hurl is slow, but it's a ranged Haymaker, so that's the tax I guess.

[Sir Myshkin]

4 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

I'm leveling up a Bio/SS Tank (lvl 26 so far) and don't have much global recharge. I click Rage when fighting a big boss and run in Defensive almost all the time, unless team buffs are plentiful. 

Perspective being what it is, it's difficult to tell if I'm low damage due to un-Rage, not having fully slotted attacks, or Defensive -Dam debuff, or all combined, and if it'll get better.

It takes very little effort to get Rage to "perma" status with just one rotation of 120/s, so there's no reason not to keep it up all the time and just be mindful of the crash. If you're using Defensive that'll help offset the penalties when the occur in a non-IO'd build. Once you get a more fleshed out build with more recharge in their, you can get double-stacked Rage (really only need 70/'s cooldown to compensate 10/s crash, no reason to execute early during the crash cause it's wasted).

 

With just one application of Rage active Super Strength will perform pretty middle-of-the-pack. If you double-stack Rage, SS becomes the second strongest set in the game (second to TW, marginally better than War Mace), and the absurdity of it is that you can trade out two of its powers (Punch and Haymaker) and use Boxing and Cross Punch instead and end up better for it because Cross Punch is a cone and can take a -Res proc.

[ninja surprise]

2 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

It's been a while but isn't Rage the level 28 power on a tank?

 

Yep! turns out I'm confused.

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

 The T1-T3 all play a Tier low. Jab is worse than Boxing, Punch would be a mediocre T1 on other sets, and Haymaker would make an OK T2, but as a T3 is underwhelming. Hurl is slow, but it's a ranged Haymaker, so that's the tax I guess.

That's good to know, I was considering switching to a Brute so I could swap out Jab for Boxing and actually use it.

I actually like Hurl Boulder on Stone Melee, it's really satisfying to use on a runner. I feel like Matthew Quigley, taking my sweet time getting ready, then watching the boulder fly through the air and follow the runner around corners until it hits.

 

It is quite a slog with only single target attacks. Hand Clap comes in pretty early but the accuracy and recharge are so dismal it's barely useful (with a KD IO of course).

 

 

 

[ninja surprise]

15 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

With just one application of Rage active Super Strength will perform pretty middle-of-the-pack. If you double-stack Rage, SS becomes the second strongest set in the game (second to TW, marginally better than War Mace), and the absurdity of it is that you can trade out two of its powers (Punch and Haymaker) and use Boxing and Cross Punch instead and end up better for it because Cross Punch is a cone and can take a -Res proc.

Great idea, should be able to squeeze in Cross Punch before 20 to get a cone!

[Heraclea]

Question ~ have been leery of SS on HC once I knew what happened ~ but does the Rage crash affect Judgments? 

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, Heraclea said:

Question ~ have been leery of SS on HC once I knew what happened ~ but does the Rage crash affect Judgments? 

No. I tend to save my judgement for the crash. I use Void Radial, so the debuff helps

[Warboss]

I usually just use Sands of Mu or another Temp, use a buff or do maintenance during the Rage crash. Usually it's not critical, just annoying.

[Myrmidon]

For me, no playing Super Strength until it gets its QoL pass. After years of the crash on live, I’m done with it.