-DEF vs -RES

[Mythcreatio]

Hello all,

 

I'm curious as to which is more viable at the end game? For instance is Radiation Blast good end game since a lot of it's abilities have -def where as Sonic has the -res.

[Doomguide2005]

-defense is good for the number of procs it can use.  -resist is good because it not only increases your damage but all the damage the debuffed foe is taking.  -defense as a means to make things easier to hit is almost worthless in the end game. 1) it is heavily resisted by +4 foes and even more so by AVs in generally (purple patch and AV resistances) and 2) most characters in the endgame build to be able to reliably hit +3/+4 foes.  Generally if an endgame foe is hard to hit buffing the teams To Hit is a much more effective choice.

[Mythcreatio]

Okay got it, thanks!

[agentx5]

I will say -DEF can be quite deadly vs players (i.e. enemy Cimerorans stacking it on your tanker, especially versus SuperReflexes), but I guess it's useless vs level 54's?

 

I wish there were more things that could reliability apply -RES, or -DEF and -RES...

Would be nice if there was a list of the ones we have...

 

Question just to confirm: Defenders do get more of both -DEF & -RES % debuffing than other archetypes, right?  If so, how much more?

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, agentx5 said:

I will say -DEF can be quite deadly vs players (i.e. enemy Cimerorans stacking it on your tanker, especially versus SuperReflexes), but I guess it's useless vs level 54's?

Thanks to capped defense debuff resistance, SR actually does better against Cimerorans than probably any other armor. It only folds against the autohit fluffy in the last mission.

 

As for values, a rad defender does -30% res and -25% damage with enervating field. A rad cor with the same power does -22.5% res and -20% damage. Oddly, a master mind does -22.5% res but only -15% damage ... so either that one power is an outlier or it's not just a case of AT modifiers for buffs and debuffs.

 

Considering how easy it is to get +acc from set bonuses and +tohit buffs from everywhere, I'd much rather someone bring more -res to the party.

[Dahkness]

-res, Its great when you have dmg cap. End game is fast pace right now so it just speeds it up. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Hops

[Doomguide2005]

A couple of thoughts

1)  Resistance debuffs are their own (weird) animal and is not effected by either the purple patch or AV resistances.

2) most of the time defender values are better as buff/debuffs.  Some AT set powers for corruptor  and defenders are the same. As far as I know they are never better.  Hopefully, if there is an example or three, someone will point that out.

[fitzsimmons]

If you want a -res beast, go with a poison sonic defender.  It’s pure joy.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, fitzsimmons said:

If you want a -res beast, go with a poison sonic defender.  It’s pure joy.

That's funny. I was about to start a thread about a poison/sonic. Just tryin to come up with a decent name. Any thoughts on what APP/PPP to go with and why?

[fitzsimmons]

I went with Scorp shield to get softcapped s/l/e and I got e/n from sets.  The key for me is misdirection.  More -res!  A PBAOE at that. 

 

Here's the build:

 

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[fitzsimmons]

I just noticed a change I should make.  Change howl from Posi's to Ragnarok (I was probably feeling cheap at the time) and then remove lockdown from Poison trap and fill it full of procs.  Not sure how I missed this.

 

I could also put Apoc's in scream.  Again, probably feeling cheap.

 

Edit: oooh, oooh!  I can also remove the 3 slots from boxing and still be above softcap.  The -tohit in Venemous gas gives some nice protection and buffer when in close.  Weaken has a powerful -tohit as well.  Gosh I love this toon.

 

Regards,
Dave

Edited September 28, 2020 by fitzsimmons

[Scientist]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:54 PM, Mythcreatio said:

Hello all,

 

I'm curious as to which is more viable at the end game? For instance is Radiation Blast good end game since a lot of it's abilities have -def where as Sonic has the -res.

Note that some of this choice will depend on whether you plan to solo.  Sonic has great -res in its attacks, but to "compensate" the actual damage of the attacks is lower than most others, so it is very slow soloing.  It also has very little AoE, though its nuke is great.  

 

With the addition of -resistance procs from Invention sets, the question of which attack set provides the best support is a much more complex one.  Dual Pistols and Beam Rifle start becoming good competitors to Sonic attack because they each have a -resist attack in their sets AND the ability to slot some other procs, and more base damage to boot.  There are a lot of discussions in the Defender forum about this, while it is long, the "Proc Monster" thread covers a lot of these ideas.  

[oedipus_tex]

Just to chime in on the original question, altho -Resistance is very useful, -Defense is still situationally useful. Mainly that's because so many level 50 teams now consist of a couple of 50s and their very underleveled friends. -Defense helps them actually hit stuff. When I lead level 54 radio teams I like to bring a set with -Defense to make the other players not feel like they're wasting their time.  

[VV]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:54 PM, Mythcreatio said:

For instance is Radiation Blast good end game since a lot of it's abilities have -def where as Sonic has the -res.

Well this thread came along right at the right time. I am working on a Storm/? And was going to ask if /Rad or /Sonic were the better choice. Looks like sonic wins, which is cool because it fits the concept I have better.

[Max Firepower]

2 hours ago, VV said:

Well this thread came along right at the right time. I am working on a Storm/? And was going to ask if /Rad or /Sonic were the better choice. Looks like sonic wins, which is cool because it fits the concept I have better.

I tried a Dark/Sonic but ditched the idea after the glacially slow animations for both power sets.  I was waiting for the “beep” to advance the filmstrip between powers.

 

a Dark/Rad was much faster to play.

[aethereal]

On 9/26/2020 at 5:33 AM, Doomguide2005 said:

A couple of thoughts

1)  Resistance debuffs are their own (weird) animal and is not effected by either the purple patch or AV resistances.

2) most of the time defender values are better as buff/debuffs.  Some AT set powers for corruptor  and defenders are the same. As far as I know they are never better.  Hopefully, if there is an example or three, someone will point that out.

I know this post is a month old, but resistance debuffs are affected by the purple patch (AVs have no special resistance to resist debuffs because resist debuff resistance is just resistance -- for AVs to have special resist debuff resistance they'd have to have high resistances.  But purple patch is different and does affect resist debuffs).

[Doomguide2005]

Thank you for the correction.  Reread what I could find and I have to agree with the writer/editor, some of it makes my head hurt.  Thinking I got myself confused by an earlier part in the Wiki article as it doesn't specifically list resistance debuffs as being effected but the portion of the article talking about resistance (and how they specifically are resisted) makes it clearer how it works.

[ChetManly]

On 9/28/2020 at 6:12 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

That's funny. I was about to start a thread about a poison/sonic. Just tryin to come up with a decent name. Any thoughts on what APP/PPP to go with and why?

 Kind of late reply bought...

 

How bout Infectious Groove? 

 I took psi for the hold and the shield. With Dominate, that give me 3 ST Holds with the one from Pistols. Psychological hold give me more damage neutralizing capability.  I learned a bunch playing with Poison and then a ton more reading Frosticus' guide in these here forums. Have a look.

-Chet

[Bill Z Bubba]

32 minutes ago, ChetManly said:

How bout Infectious Groove? 

I ended up dumping her. Can't even remember her name. Mostly because I've already got a sonic/dark corr that I'm diggin on. Sonic's a heavy hitting set but, man, those long animations...

[ChetManly]

On 11/21/2020 at 4:41 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I ended up dumping her. Can't even remember her name. Mostly because I've already got a sonic/dark corr that I'm diggin on. Sonic's a heavy hitting set but, man, those long animations...

Shame. Infectious Groove is a good name. I get it though. I may use it as i've wanted to try a Corr and  I love Poison.  Yeah, they are long.