Stereotypes and Misusing Cultural/Religious Figures

[AsheOdinsonAlt]

Okay, I'm going to say right out the gate that the Tsoo and the Tuatha are not going to be removed anytime soon, if at all, I'm sure. Having said that, it should be a consideration. The characters the Tuatha are based on are repugnant representations of figures from a world religion, the Tuatha de Danann (Children of Danann. Which yes, means Cryptic only kept the word that means Children.) from Celtic Paganism. The Tsoo are plainly a bad stereotype that shouldn't need explanation. And, lastly, the one change that absolutely can and should be done immediately: Remove the "Viking" costume preset. Even dismissing the misuse of the term Viking (It's a common mistake to refer to all of the Norse as Vikings, when the term was a less than desirable one used only for those who sailed.. and even that's keeping it simple), there is exactly NOTHING "Viking" about the entire outfit. The Norse did not have horned helmets, the pattern on the SWEATSHIRT is Celtic, he's wearing a KILT, the boots and gloves are nothing but cloth wrappings, and the shoulders seem to have simply been as random a choice as the rest. At best, it's a random mishmash of styles. At worst, it's continuing stereotypes. In either case, there is no benefit whatsoever to keeping it.

[Mezmera]

/jranger

[0th Power]

If this is satire, then bravo. 

[MTeague]

• It's a game. 
• The content is between 8 and 14 years old. 
• It wasn't produced by the HC devs.
• if they DID want to remove the content, what do they replace it with?  Nothing?  
• what else might you or someone else decide to be offended about next?  The Family?  the 5th Council?  
• shall we rip out story arcs and content just to appease someone with insufficiently thick skin?

[Greycat]

Wait, OP. You're complaining about the Tuatha, but not the fir Bolg? Who were absolutely not pumpkins. But I guess this is fine with you.

 

And the cabal. Talk about a stereotype of witches, which is how modern wiccans - an actual, live, current religion - identify themselves. Brooms, pointy hats and all. I was *married* to one. No brooms, other than for sweeping. Some black in her closet, along with other colors. No pointy hats, no flying. But that's perfectly fine, not worth mentioning by the OP. It's JUST the Tuatha that should have ire raised by their inclusion!

 

Let's not get into Sally.

 

We should probably just pull all of Croatoa. Especially with the horrible misuse of standing stones.

 

And Crey. Talk about misrepresenting all the hard working people in tech and R&D. What a horrible stereotype! That goes for Aeon and Vernon von Grun, too. We should pull anything to do with them. Yeah, leaves a few content gaps, but it's a small price to pay.  And aside from the Countess, are there any women represented? Nope, just in 'security' - and one PR person - typically with impractically short skirts just objectifying them as they kick and jump. At least the Tsoo resolved *that.*

 

And talk about costume pieces. Spectrum is just glowy. It's not representative of a spectrum, OR a cable and internet provider, at ALL. It should be pulled until it can be properly redone. "Bare" certainly isn't - those are definite coverings, both male and female. Talk about false marketing. They should live up to their name. What about biker? Or genie? And then we have kung fu master! I've never seen one actually dressed like that. Ninja, police officer - all stereotypes. I don't even think "Average" really lives up to the name.

 

We should shut down the game until all these travesties are addressed!

 

... or, y'know, realize it's a game, these are not meant as actual representations, and move on with it.

 

(Edit: Side note, I'm of Irish ancestry. Connacht? The Irish county? I can trace my family and surname to it. I love my history and mythology. Know how much the tuatha, etc. offend me? Not at all.)

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Greycat

[AsheOdinsonAlt]

Very glad to see the trolls are all alive and well. It's not satire. Yes, I missed several groups. I refused to go to Croatoa at all, even in live, due to there not being a single thing NOT wrong with the zone. So, there's bound to be plenty more I wouldn't have even known to mention. When the game came out, lots of this stuff was thrown around in games, so it was moot to approach Cryptic. Now, we live in more enlightened times and the game is in different hands. This post is an appeal to consider changes to the game now that it's in new hands and you lot ^ are an endangered species.

[Ashington]

It's a game partially based on an tabletop P&P RPG (Champions, I think) based on the Medium of Superhero Comics

 

 

'nuff said

 

Spoiler

Btw. Funny that you have ''Odinson'' in your Name. I'm German. That would be like me calling myself ''Wotans Sohn'' (Son of Wotan).  Do you want to start a Discussion with me about old Thunder gods so I can forbid you from using ''Odin'' in your Name? Maybe the Vikings stole it from us, you cultural Appropriator.

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Ashington

[Mezmera]

Yeah this comes off as satire trying too hard.  I see the problem here someone needs a hug!  💋

 

On a more serious note; /jranger

 

Oh and nerf regen it offends meh.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Mezmera

[Greycat]

There are times to actually bring attention to issues like this. If we had, say, Back Alley Brawler speaking completely in ebonics and eating watermelon or chicken, that would be something to protest. Do you also refuse to train at Valkyrie in Steel Canyon because she's not 100% culturally accurate? Or skip anything with Scirocco because he's not Arab enough?

 

Do you go around petitioning and making noise about people in game who aren't representing what you think their characters should be, if they even touch on anything mythical or historic? I'm also looking forward to seeing if you reply to Ashington's question in any serious way.

 

You, OP, are talking about a fictional people in a *comic book based* game.

 

There are times to take things seriously. This is not it. This is so far from it that the light from "it" will hit this issue in a billion years or so. This is so far from it, it takes away from the things that actually *do* need to be taken seriously.

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Greycat

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Yeah uhm OP you kinda undermine any point you tried to make when you called something celtic paganism. Words have meaning, and the actual meaning for Pagan is a rural roman who chose to keep to the old greco/roman pantheons as the urban people of Rome converted to the new kid on the block of worship at the time Christianity. Its just as inaccurate as modern neo pagans just calling themselves pagans. Dropping that neo is quite wrong as very few in this modern age follow the pagan gods( Zeus, Hera etc.). Its called a dead or ancient religion when one studies comparative myths and legends because just like the ancient celtic faith traditions, most of which are simply lost to the sands of time and modern people who call such their faith while certainly free to do so, are not part of some ancient faith tradition, and have no actual connection to those long lost to us.

 

Oh and the HC dev team have pretty clearly stated they will not be altering, or removing any faction, or NPC from the game. I mean really I cant tell if your trying to troll and bait with this thread or what because I cant take the above as a serious effort in reason.

 

And this coming from someone who made a suggestion for a far more controversial character in the game lore.

 

But here is the thing when it comes to any form of legend or mythology, its all open to personal ideas, and this game is in no way required to reflect any specific of the myriad variations on one of many archaic belief structures.

 

I mean in the end its CoHverse, where Zeus appeared in modern times via his avatar Statesman. All gods seem to be nothing next to the power of the Well!

Edited July 8, 2020 by Bentley Berkeley

[Six-Six]

And may I add that the Angelic costume does not strike me as very angelic at all.
I teamed up with Jesus once, brought it up with him as well... he said to just forgive such trespasses.

[Ashington]

57 minutes ago, AsheOdinsonAlt said:

Very glad to see the trolls are all alive and well. It's not satire. Yes, I missed several groups. I refused to go to Croatoa at all, even in live, due to there not being a single thing NOT wrong with the zone. So, there's bound to be plenty more I wouldn't have even known to mention. When the game came out, lots of this stuff was thrown around in games, so it was moot to approach Cryptic. Now, we live in more enlightened times and the game is in different hands. This post is an appeal to consider changes to the game now that it's in new hands and you lot ^ are an endangered species.

 trolls are from norse mythology. so the only troll here is you.

[kelika2]

One of my fingers smells like metal, but tastes like salt.

 

Im with OP, fuck this world.

[Lines]

5 hours ago, AsheOdinsonAlt said:

In either case, there is no benefit whatsoever to keeping it.

Is there a benefit to removing it?

 

This thread should be a request for better viking/norse costume parts, not that new costume parts are on the table yet. I agree that the preset you showed is a hot mess, but you really got to spin it to be offended by it.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Lines

[nihilii]

Not being familiar with Irish culture at all, Croatoa in CoH was my first exposure to Tuatha and all.

Years later I ended up at the Dublin airport. They've got these neat infographics on the walls talking about mythology. Did I think "haha, stupid brown pumpkin monsters"? Nope! My reaction, as anyone's would, was "hey, I've seen those words before -- oooh, so that's the REAL story! Wow, that's really cool".

It's not like anyone would take fiction as their source for global history. Previous exposure only serves to reinforce interest.

Time to stop mincing words. Outrage culture types are seriously fucked in the head. Your entire premise is that people are dumb and their exposure to any form of media need to be tightly controlled lest they get consumed by the first thing they read. It takes such a grim view of humanity as a whole, and such an arrogant, egotistical outlook on one's imagined own superiority, to embrace that premise. Take a step back and try to have a better opinion of your fellow man. For that matter, if you think you're so smart and so above the rest of us, work your intellectual gifts on clean energy, curing cancer or some other noble promise, instead of being such an insufferable wanker on the Internet.

[MoisesG]

Maybe the OP needs to go play Minecraft?

[GM Tock]

We welcome suggestions for game content from anyone, however, we ask that users refrain from starting fights on the boards involving divisive topics such as political and religious arguments as Suggestions.

 

The suggestion is heard.  But this conversation is over.