Burn accuracy

[Solarverse]

I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago.  Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements.  Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.

 

The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate.  You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate.  It just is what it is.

 

Either way, it should be fixed. Either fixed to utilize the Accuracy Enhancements, or fix to where it no longer lets you drop one in it. As it stands now, it's deceiving.

[SemanticAntics]

I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago.  Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements.  Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.

 

The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate.  You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate.  It just is what it is.

 

Literally no other similarly-functioning power behaves as you describe. Why should Burn?

[Catmint]

I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago.  Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements.  Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.

 

The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate.  You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate.  It just is what it is.

 

Literally no other similarly-functioning power behaves as you describe. Why should Burn?

 

Because it has the endurance cost of an attack that deals two thirds its base, non-dot damage to a single target.

Because it gives full strength immobilize protection for four times its unenhanced recharge.

Because for that initial damage in that radius, it should be costing almost 20 endurance, and recharging in 20 seconds without any secondary effects, including no DoT patch.

Because some people remember what burn tanks were, and are, capable of.

Because if the burn patch inherited accuracy, then it'd be a reliable 2.4 scale AoE on a ridiculously short recharge.  In a defense powerset.

 

You want to know the similarly-functioning powers to Burn?  You want to look in Blast sets.  At Rain of Fire, in Fire Blast, or Ice Storm, in Ice Blast, or even Sleet, in Cold Domination.  Because while they can take Accuracy enhancements, until that i18 change, Burn worked exactly like them - it had a Fear in it.  It made enemies run out of it.

 

Burn is strong.  Burn has always been strong.  It's a strong AoE, in a set with lots of offense already, even if half the ticks may end up missing on a +3 target.  It's still good.  If you want to skip it, fine, but it's not a bug that the power doesn't work the way you'd like it to work.

[Solarverse]

I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago.  Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements.  Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.

 

The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate.  You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate.  It just is what it is.

 

Literally no other similarly-functioning power behaves as you describe. Why should Burn?

 

Because it has the endurance cost of an attack that deals two thirds its base, non-dot damage to a single target.

Because it gives full strength immobilize protection for four times its unenhanced recharge.

Because for that initial damage in that radius, it should be costing almost 20 endurance, and recharging in 20 seconds without any secondary effects, including no DoT patch.

Because some people remember what burn tanks were, and are, capable of.

Because if the burn patch inherited accuracy, then it'd be a reliable 2.4 scale AoE on a ridiculously short recharge.  In a defense powerset.

 

You want to know the similarly-functioning powers to Burn?  You want to look in Blast sets.  At Rain of Fire, in Fire Blast, or Ice Storm, in Ice Blast, or even Sleet, in Cold Domination.  Because while they can take Accuracy enhancements, until that i18 change, Burn worked exactly like them - it had a Fear in it.  It made enemies run out of it.

 

Burn is strong.  Burn has always been strong.  It's a strong AoE, in a set with lots of offense already, even if half the ticks may end up missing on a +3 target.  It's still good.  If you want to skip it, fine, but it's not a bug that the power doesn't work the way you'd like it to work.

 

Huh? First, you've got the OP all wrong...not even sure what got you started on that tangent. The OP noticed that slotting Accuracy in Burn changes nothing. So the OP feels that if slotting it with Accuracy changes nothing, then it shouldn't let you put an Accuracy in to it. If it *is* supposed to change the Accuracy of Burn, then it needs to function properly. This has nothing to do with all that stuff you just said that had nothing to do with the OP's point of this thread. The OP said he had evidence that it was bugged, showed proof that it is bugged, now here you are with this "Well, umm...burn is blah blah blah blah blah" crap.

 

What you did right here, trying to make yourself sound all important and superior, is why most people hate posting forums. People like you run them off with your smarter than thou crap. The OP doesn't have any particular way (that he mentions) that he wants it to work, he just wants it to work as intended...and right now, it's not working as intended because it will take Accuracy Enhancements that have no affect on Burn.

 

Relax a bit, read what the OP is trying to convey. This has nothing to do with all that stuf you just typed up.

[Catmint]

I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago.  Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements.  Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.

 

The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate.  You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate.  It just is what it is.

 

Literally no other similarly-functioning power behaves as you describe. Why should Burn?

 

Because it has the endurance cost of an attack that deals two thirds its base, non-dot damage to a single target.

Because it gives full strength immobilize protection for four times its unenhanced recharge.

Because for that initial damage in that radius, it should be costing almost 20 endurance, and recharging in 20 seconds without any secondary effects, including no DoT patch.

Because some people remember what burn tanks were, and are, capable of.

Because if the burn patch inherited accuracy, then it'd be a reliable 2.4 scale AoE on a ridiculously short recharge.  In a defense powerset.

 

You want to know the similarly-functioning powers to Burn?  You want to look in Blast sets.  At Rain of Fire, in Fire Blast, or Ice Storm, in Ice Blast, or even Sleet, in Cold Domination.  Because while they can take Accuracy enhancements, until that i18 change, Burn worked exactly like them - it had a Fear in it.  It made enemies run out of it.

 

Burn is strong.  Burn has always been strong.  It's a strong AoE, in a set with lots of offense already, even if half the ticks may end up missing on a +3 target.  It's still good.  If you want to skip it, fine, but it's not a bug that the power doesn't work the way you'd like it to work.

 

Huh? First, you've got the OP all wrong...not even sure what got you started on that tangent. The OP noticed that slotting Accuracy in Burn changes nothing. So the OP feels that if slotting it with Accuracy changes nothing, then it shouldn't let you put an Accuracy in to it. If it *is* supposed to change the Accuracy of Burn, then it needs to function properly. This has nothing to do with all that stuff you just said that had nothing to do with the OP's point of this thread. The OP said he had evidence that it was bugged, showed proof that it is bugged, now here you are with this "Well, umm...burn is blah blah blah blah blah" crap.

 

What you did right here, trying to make yourself sound all important and superior, is why most people hate posting forums. People like you run them off with your smarter than thou crap. The OP doesn't have any particular way (that he mentions) that he wants it to work, he just wants it to work as intended...and right now, it's not working as intended because it will take Accuracy Enhancements that have no affect on Burn.

 

Relax a bit, read what the OP is trying to convey. This has nothing to do with all that stuf you just typed up.

 

Slotting Accuracy improves the accuracy of the initial AoE hit.  It does not improve the Accuracy of the resulting damage patch.  This is working as intended.

[Solarverse]

I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago.  Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements.  Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.

 

The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate.  You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate.  It just is what it is.

 

Literally no other similarly-functioning power behaves as you describe. Why should Burn?

 

Because it has the endurance cost of an attack that deals two thirds its base, non-dot damage to a single target.

Because it gives full strength immobilize protection for four times its unenhanced recharge.

Because for that initial damage in that radius, it should be costing almost 20 endurance, and recharging in 20 seconds without any secondary effects, including no DoT patch.

Because some people remember what burn tanks were, and are, capable of.

Because if the burn patch inherited accuracy, then it'd be a reliable 2.4 scale AoE on a ridiculously short recharge.  In a defense powerset.

 

You want to know the similarly-functioning powers to Burn?  You want to look in Blast sets.  At Rain of Fire, in Fire Blast, or Ice Storm, in Ice Blast, or even Sleet, in Cold Domination.  Because while they can take Accuracy enhancements, until that i18 change, Burn worked exactly like them - it had a Fear in it.  It made enemies run out of it.

 

Burn is strong.  Burn has always been strong.  It's a strong AoE, in a set with lots of offense already, even if half the ticks may end up missing on a +3 target.  It's still good.  If you want to skip it, fine, but it's not a bug that the power doesn't work the way you'd like it to work.

 

Huh? First, you've got the OP all wrong...not even sure what got you started on that tangent. The OP noticed that slotting Accuracy in Burn changes nothing. So the OP feels that if slotting it with Accuracy changes nothing, then it shouldn't let you put an Accuracy in to it. If it *is* supposed to change the Accuracy of Burn, then it needs to function properly. This has nothing to do with all that stuff you just said that had nothing to do with the OP's point of this thread. The OP said he had evidence that it was bugged, showed proof that it is bugged, now here you are with this "Well, umm...burn is blah blah blah blah blah" crap.

 

What you did right here, trying to make yourself sound all important and superior, is why most people hate posting forums. People like you run them off with your smarter than thou crap. The OP doesn't have any particular way (that he mentions) that he wants it to work, he just wants it to work as intended...and right now, it's not working as intended because it will take Accuracy Enhancements that have no affect on Burn.

 

Relax a bit, read what the OP is trying to convey. This has nothing to do with all that stuf you just typed up.

 

Slotting Accuracy improves the accuracy of the initial AoE hit.  It does not improve the Accuracy of the resulting damage patch.  This is working as intended.

 

Now that is some helpful information. Thank you. Since you seem like you may know a bit about Burn and the mechanics (as long as I have been playing this game, I should already know this, especially since I was one of the players who used a Fire Tank to herd back in the days, so I am a bit ashamed I do not already know the answer to the question I am about to ask you.) let me ask you this; does the initial hit, hit harder than the ones that follow? Just trying to figure out why only the initial hit would require a hit check.

[Catmint]

I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago.  Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements.  Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.

 

The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate.  You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate.  It just is what it is.

 

Literally no other similarly-functioning power behaves as you describe. Why should Burn?

 

Because it has the endurance cost of an attack that deals two thirds its base, non-dot damage to a single target.

Because it gives full strength immobilize protection for four times its unenhanced recharge.

Because for that initial damage in that radius, it should be costing almost 20 endurance, and recharging in 20 seconds without any secondary effects, including no DoT patch.

Because some people remember what burn tanks were, and are, capable of.

Because if the burn patch inherited accuracy, then it'd be a reliable 2.4 scale AoE on a ridiculously short recharge.  In a defense powerset.

 

You want to know the similarly-functioning powers to Burn?  You want to look in Blast sets.  At Rain of Fire, in Fire Blast, or Ice Storm, in Ice Blast, or even Sleet, in Cold Domination.  Because while they can take Accuracy enhancements, until that i18 change, Burn worked exactly like them - it had a Fear in it.  It made enemies run out of it.

 

Burn is strong.  Burn has always been strong.  It's a strong AoE, in a set with lots of offense already, even if half the ticks may end up missing on a +3 target.  It's still good.  If you want to skip it, fine, but it's not a bug that the power doesn't work the way you'd like it to work.

 

Huh? First, you've got the OP all wrong...not even sure what got you started on that tangent. The OP noticed that slotting Accuracy in Burn changes nothing. So the OP feels that if slotting it with Accuracy changes nothing, then it shouldn't let you put an Accuracy in to it. If it *is* supposed to change the Accuracy of Burn, then it needs to function properly. This has nothing to do with all that stuff you just said that had nothing to do with the OP's point of this thread. The OP said he had evidence that it was bugged, showed proof that it is bugged, now here you are with this "Well, umm...burn is blah blah blah blah blah" crap.

 

What you did right here, trying to make yourself sound all important and superior, is why most people hate posting forums. People like you run them off with your smarter than thou crap. The OP doesn't have any particular way (that he mentions) that he wants it to work, he just wants it to work as intended...and right now, it's not working as intended because it will take Accuracy Enhancements that have no affect on Burn.

 

Relax a bit, read what the OP is trying to convey. This has nothing to do with all that stuf you just typed up.

 

Slotting Accuracy improves the accuracy of the initial AoE hit.  It does not improve the Accuracy of the resulting damage patch.  This is working as intended.

 

Now that is some helpful information. Thank you. Since you seem like you may know a bit about Burn and the mechanics (as long as I have been playing this game, I should already know this, especially since I was one of the players who used a Fire Tank to herd back in the days, so I am a bit ashamed I do not already know the answer to the question I am about to ask you.) let me ask you this; does the initial hit, hit harder than the ones that follow? Just trying to figure out why only the initial hit would require a hit check.

 

Yeah, the initial hit is more than half of the damage.  The i18 update that added that initial hit moved most of the damage into that initial hit and decreased the tick rate, so the DoT portion is weaker technically weaker but there's a big frontloaded hit that you can enhance for accuracy.

[Coyote]

Slotting Accuracy improves the accuracy of the initial AoE hit.  It does not improve the Accuracy of the resulting damage patch.  This is working as intended.

 

It's working as written in the database, which is how computers usually work ;).

I would want a Dev's comment to know what is working as intended, however.

Regardless of balance issues, other patches do benefit from Accuracy slotting. And I would want to know if the Thugs and Assault Bot powers also are limited in not getting a benefit from Accuracy, and the same for Enflame and for Ignite.

And with that, I would then want the Devs to say "it's a bug", or "it's intended". Players can have wildly varying opinions on what is intended, and they can't all be right.

[SemanticAntics]

Because it has the endurance cost of an attack that deals two thirds its base, non-dot damage to a single target.

Because it gives full strength immobilize protection for four times its unenhanced recharge.

Because for that initial damage in that radius, it should be costing almost 20 endurance, and recharging in 20 seconds without any secondary effects, including no DoT patch.

Because some people remember what burn tanks were, and are, capable of.

Because if the burn patch inherited accuracy, then it'd be a reliable 2.4 scale AoE on a ridiculously short recharge.  In a defense powerset.

 

I agree that its endurance cost seems a bit low for the damage that it does. I do not believe that inherent inaccuracy is intended as a balance for the low endurance use, however. If that were the intent, it would be reflected by a lower accuracy multiplier, not by ignoring enhancement values. This is clearly a case of a flag not being set. Comparing it with other, similar powers, I would guess that Burn's damage, low target cap, 25-second recharge, small radius, and more-damage-as-a-secondary-effect nature of Fire should probably put its endurance cost somewhere closer to 8-13. If its target cap and radius were raised to 10, 16-20 would be a reasonable endurance cost.

 

You want to know the similarly-functioning powers to Burn?  You want to look in Blast sets.  At Rain of Fire, in Fire Blast, or Ice Storm, in Ice Blast, or even Sleet, in Cold Domination.  Because while they can take Accuracy enhancements, until that i18 change, Burn worked exactly like them - it had a Fear in it.  It made enemies run out of it.

 

I did. And while the powers you mention do indeed have an internal "Avoid" mechanic, even though Burn doesn't appear to, Burn also causes foes to flee the effect. I tested that just now, along with Rain of Fire and Freezing Rain. All three caused mobs to scatter, unless they were being affected by Taunt effects (being attacked by a tanker or brute, for instance, or using a taunt aura like Blazing Aura). Oddly enough, Burn caused more scatter than Rain of Fire or Freezing Rain, despite the lower target cap and lack of an explicit "Avoid" mechanic. The main difference is that Rain of Fire and similar powers are flagged to be affected by accuracy enhancements, while Burn's DoT patch is not.

 

Funny thing about the i18 change you mention. Neither there, nor in any of the other patch notes I searched through, is there a mention of Burn being changed to allow accuracy enhancement. You said that it originally didn't accept accuracy enhancements. That may be correct, but I can't find any evidence supporting or refuting it. Other powers have been changed to accept enhancements, or to no longer accept enhancements, and those changes are typically in the patch notes. One would think that, if Burn were changed to accept accuracy enhancements, it would be in a patch note. It's one of the things I was looking for in order to determine whether this appeared to be intentional or not. Knowing when such a change was made would give insight into why it was changed.

 

Burn is strong.  Burn has always been strong.  It's a strong AoE, in a set with lots of offense already, even if half the ticks may end up missing on a +3 target.  It's still good.  If you want to skip it, fine, but it's not a bug that the power doesn't work the way you'd like it to work.

 

It is a strong power. I'm not disputing that. I also never said I was going to skip it. I'm not sure where you got that idea. Its front-loaded damage is almost as good as most other PBAoE attacks. Its total damage (assuming all the DoT ticks land on the same enemy) is actually better than most PBAoE attacks. It suffers over time by comparison with other PBAoE attacks because most of them do similar or better damage (compared with Burn's front-loaded damage), but with a faster recharge, a higher target cap, and/or a larger radius. Claws' Spin, for instance, does a full third more damage than Burn's initial pulse and about 80% as much as Burn's ideal total, but against twice as many enemies and nearly twice as often. Now, this comes at the cost of a lot more endurance, as well as the arguably-inferior Lethal damage type.

 

But I didn't post about it because it isn't working the way I'd like it to. I posted about it because it sticks out among every other mechanically-similar power I tested in one respect: Burn's pseudopet does not use the accuracy enhancements given to it.

 

I have asked several times for a GM to weigh in on this topic. If one of them said that Burn was working as it was intended, then I'd be happy enough with Burn as an AoE attack that sometimes happens to do DoT. Even better if someone could produce an archived forum post from the original dev team to that effect. I was unable to find such a post. Until then, I believe this is a bug that, while probably not very high-priority, should get fixed at some point. I even went and

found where the bug is in the server files so that fixing it should be trivially easy. As a bonus, I even addressed Rain of Fire in that post.

 

Slotting Accuracy improves the accuracy of the initial AoE hit.  It does not improve the Accuracy of the resulting damage patch.  This is working as intended.

 

Working as coded is not necessarily the same as working as intended.

[SemanticAntics]

[...] does the initial hit, hit harder than the ones that follow? Just trying to figure out why only the initial hit would require a hit check.

 

The initial hit does the majority of the damage. Approximately 60%, all at once. The other 40% happen over ten seconds in the flame patch.

 

[...] Regardless of balance issues, other patches do benefit from Accuracy slotting. And I would want to know if the Thugs and Assault Bot powers also are limited in not getting a benefit from Accuracy, and the same for Enflame and for Ignite.

And with that, I would then want the Devs to say "it's a bug", or "it's intended". Players can have wildly varying opinions on what is intended, and they can't all be right.

 

Yes, the Arsonist, Assault Bot, and Assault Rifle's Ignite all appear to be affected by this bug. In the case of the Assault Bot, it directly summons Burn's pseudopet. In the case of the Arsonist, it appears to summon a copy. I'm not sure, but Ignite seems to be a copy of the old Burn.

 

Enflame is not affected.

 

Huh. In looking at Enflame, its effects vary slightly by archetype. I see a reference to an archetype I had never heard of before. The Primalist.

[Solarverse]

 

I did. And while the powers you mention do indeed have an internal "Avoid" mechanic, even though Burn doesn't appear to, Burn also causes foes to flee the effect. I tested that just now, along with Rain of Fire and Freezing Rain. All three caused mobs to scatter, unless they were being affected by Taunt effects (being attacked by a tanker or brute, for instance, or using a taunt aura like Blazing Aura). Oddly enough, Burn caused more scatter than Rain of Fire or Freezing Rain, despite the lower target cap and lack of an explicit "Avoid" mechanic. The main difference is that Rain of Fire and similar powers are flagged to be affected by accuracy enhancements, while Burn's DoT patch is not.

 

The major difference between Burn and Rain of Fire or Freezing Rain, is that RoF and FR have a slow affect to them. So it doesn't do the mobs much any good to flee. Those two powers and powers like them might as well not even have a fear affect to them...it's pointless.

[SemanticAntics]

The major difference between Burn and Rain of Fire or Freezing Rain, is that RoF and FR have a slow affect to them. So it doesn't do the mobs much any good to flee. Those two powers and powers like them might as well not even have a fear affect to them...it's pointless.

 

That may make some of the difference. In my (admittedly brief) testing, I saw two or three peel off from the pack when I used Rain of Fire, but 4-7 fled when I used Burn. This was with comparable group sizes.

 

I suspect there's an issue of magnitude as well, as bosses were less likely to flee.

[Solarverse]

The major difference between Burn and Rain of Fire or Freezing Rain, is that RoF and FR have a slow affect to them. So it doesn't do the mobs much any good to flee. Those two powers and powers like them might as well not even have a fear affect to them...it's pointless.

 

That may make some of the difference. In my (admittedly brief) testing, I saw two or three peel off from the pack when I used Rain of Fire, but 4-7 fled when I used Burn. This was with comparable group sizes.

 

I suspect there's an issue of magnitude as well, as bosses were less likely to flee.

 

Honestly, I feel like they should add a slow affect to Burn as well. However, I'm sure if I request that, the forum dwellers would rip my head off and crap down my neck.

[SemanticAntics]

Honestly, I feel like they should add a slow affect to Burn as well. However, I'm sure if I request that, the forum dwellers would rip my head off and crap down my neck.

 

Burn's area is so small that adding a slow effect would probably not make any difference. Plus, it doesn't make a lot of sense, thematically.

 

The slow effect in Rain of Fire also doesn't make a lot of sense, but I think it may be necessary for the power to function well.

[Maldroth]

[...] does the initial hit, hit harder than the ones that follow? Just trying to figure out why only the initial hit would require a hit check.

 

The initial hit does the majority of the damage. Approximately 60%, all at once. The other 40% happen over ten seconds in the flame patch.

 

[...] Regardless of balance issues, other patches do benefit from Accuracy slotting. And I would want to know if the Thugs and Assault Bot powers also are limited in not getting a benefit from Accuracy, and the same for Enflame and for Ignite.

And with that, I would then want the Devs to say "it's a bug", or "it's intended". Players can have wildly varying opinions on what is intended, and they can't all be right.

 

Yes, the Arsonist, Assault Bot, and Assault Rifle's Ignite all appear to be affected by this bug. In the case of the Assault Bot, it directly summons Burn's pseudopet. In the case of the Arsonist, it appears to summon a copy. I'm not sure, but Ignite seems to be a copy of the old Burn.

 

Enflame is not affected.

 

Huh. In looking at Enflame, its effects vary slightly by archetype. I see a reference to an archetype I had never heard of before. The Primalist.

 

In regards to Enflame I'm seeing very odd behavior with it that I need to test more. I've slotted extra damage in it however it doesn't seem to really affect the power much. Also you might be able to confirm in the code but it doesn't seem to honor Containment currently for Controllers. Arcane Blast from the same set does. Looking at the power details in the game it seems Enflame does about 7 ticks of damage?

 

Like I said I need to do more testing on this but Enflame just seems to be very underwhelming when slotted.

[falkor313]

While I would definitely appreciate a Dev's take on this, I just want to put out there that:

 

- 100's of /Fire Brutes are doing (aka farming) just fine with the power as-is.

 

- If it's buffed in any way, it's End cost absolutely needs to be more than 5, which is ridiculously low for what is does currently.

[SemanticAntics]

While I would definitely appreciate a Dev's take on this, I just want to put out there that:

 

- 100's of /Fire Brutes are doing (aka farming) just fine with the power as-is.

 

- If it's buffed in any way, it's End cost absolutely needs to be more than 5, which is ridiculously low for what is does currently.

 

While testing, I spoke with a few other /Fire Brutes about this. One in particular had a very expensive build and had clearly spent a lot of time tuning it. He was shocked when he repeated my testing with similar results. None of them had noticed. That may seem strange to you, but I believe the main reason for that is because that portion of Burn does not report in the combat tab. Only the initial pulse of damage appears in the combat tab by default.

 

I tend to play Masterminds a lot, so my default chat setup includes a tab with all the Pet channels. It's because of that Pet tab that I saw Burn's full reporting. In that reporting, I noticed that the DoT portion was making (and frequently missing) toHit checks for every tick of damage. I didn't think anything about it making frequent toHit checks--that's expected behavior. But I noticed that the hit chance was significantly lower than I would have otherwise expected. That's what initially led me to test the power's accuracy and discover that the DoT portion was not using the Accuracy enhancements slotted in the power.

 

I agree that its endurance cost should be higher. It is not "ridiculously low," but it is below the adjusted cost of similar powers. Its small radius, low target cap, long recharge, and drawn-out, partially-unreliable effect cumulatively warrant a fairly low cost. I don't know how much weight each of those things has when balancing a power's cost, but I think around 8-13 endurance is appropriate.

 

Keep in mind that I'm not asking for a buff. Burn is a strong enough power already. I'm just asking for what is clearly a bug to be fixed. That fix would affect several powers, not just Burn. Burn just happens to be the power I initially noticed it on. And again, if someone on the current team (or one of the original developers) were to go on record saying that this is working as intended, then I'd leave this alone. But I don't believe this is intended behavior.

 

[Maldroth]

 

 

In regards to Enflame I'm seeing very odd behavior with it that I need to test more. I've slotted extra damage in it however it doesn't seem to really affect the power much. Also you might be able to confirm in the code but it doesn't seem to honor Containment currently for Controllers. Arcane Blast from the same set does. Looking at the power details in the game it seems Enflame does about 7 ticks of damage?

 

Like I said I need to do more testing on this but Enflame just seems to be very underwhelming when slotted.

 

So more observation on my side seems to line up with what others are saying here that there is that initial hit of damage and depending on the mob level I am seeing the ongoing damage numbers miss the higher the mob and nothing seems to impact that portion of the accuracy. That why it felt like I wasn't seeing the impact of the damage numbers. Also if you have a power that lifts the target from the ground such as Lift it stops the Enflame damage again until they land. That is probably working as intended but is a bit frustrating. Also none of this benefits from Containment on a Controller.

[SemanticAntics]

I see in the patch notes that a fix for Burn's accuracy problem is coming down the pipe. This is great.

 

I don't see any mention of the other problem with Burn that I recently noticed: The DoT ticks hit twice.

 

According to the in-game detailed info on Burn, it should be doing 13 DoT ticks. According to the combat log, it is attempting 26. Each tick seems to have its own hit roll, so maybe this is using an older tick count (from before the i18 change, perhaps?) by mistake. I think this is at least partly why the Avalanche (and Overwhelming Force?) proc is doing knockback instead of knockdown when slotted into Burn.

[Trickshooter]

17 hours ago, SemanticAntics said:

I see in the patch notes that a fix for Burn's accuracy problem is coming down the pipe. This is great.

 

I don't see any mention of the other problem with Burn that I recently noticed: The DoT ticks hit twice.

 

According to the in-game detailed info on Burn, it should be doing 13 DoT ticks. According to the combat log, it is attempting 26. Each tick seems to have its own hit roll, so maybe this is using an older tick count (from before the i18 change, perhaps?) by mistake. I think this is at least partly why the Avalanche (and Overwhelming Force?) proc is doing knockback instead of knockdown when slotted into Burn.

I think Vanden pointed it out somewhere, but Burn doesn't seem to limit itself to summoning a single Burn patch; it might be summoning one for each target in range. And since activating Burn also technically targets the caster (for the Immob protection), it probably always summons at least 2.

[SemanticAntics]

57 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

I think Vanden pointed it out somewhere, but Burn doesn't seem to limit itself to summoning a single Burn patch; it might be summoning one for each target in range. And since activating Burn also technically targets the caster (for the Immob protection), it probably always summons at least 2.

That's it! That's exactly what it's doing. After some testing, I was able to confirm this behavior. I couldn't find the post you mention, but thanks for pointing the behavior out.

 

Summary of my results: 

 

- Burn summons one burn patch (called "Flames" in the combat log) on the caster for each target in range, up to five (including the caster), depending on a successful hit-check of the front-loaded pulse. I was never able to get that pulse to target five foes, even when five were in range. I think (as you said) that means the caster is target 1, leaving only the four remaining targets.  

- Each burn patch targets up to five targets as expected. 

- This results in a maximum expected number of ticks equal to 13 x (foes in range [up to four] +1) x (foes in range [up to five]). In short, against two foes Burn summoned three burn patches which each attempted to hit both foes 13 times, for a total of 78 ticks. Against five foes, it summoned five patches (but didn't try to hit foe #5 with the initial damage) that each tried to hit the five foes 13 times, for a total of 325 ticks. Once, against two foes, the initial pulse missed both foes and it only attempted 13 ticks, total. So the pseudopet is working properly (save for the accuracy issue that is going to be fixed), it's just being summoned too many times.

 

I can't believe I didn't notice this before. I think it's because I was focused on the accuracy issue and was doing most of my testing on a single enemy to eliminate other factors. Going over those logs now, I see that it was summoning two burn patches for 26 total ticks. 

 

I think the initial pulse is tied to the on-caster effect (immob protection). If it can be separated, the initial pulse should begin targeting five foes properly. Once separated, the burn patch can be tied to the on-caster part instead of the on-target part so that it only summons one patch per activation. This would need to be tested in conjunction with the Mastermind Assault Bot power Incendiary Missiles, for which summoning a burn patch for each affected target is the intended behavior. Since both Burn and Incendiary Missiles summon the same pseudopet, care would need to be taken not to stealth nerf Incendiary Missiles while fixing Burn.

 

[SemanticAntics]

The latest patch notes address Burn's multiple-patch issue. It's performing much more like it was intended. Sadly, finally getting fixed means it does significantly less damage than before. The DoT portion does only 20% of its previous damage, fully saturated. Its damage output no longer varies based on targets hit, though, so there's that. It was a necessary loss, but not a fun one.

 

The up-front damage is still capping at 4 enemies, though. Now that there's only ever one burn patch per power activation, that up-front damage is much more important. 

[Vanden]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:18 AM, Trickshooter said:

I think Vanden pointed it out somewhere, but Burn doesn't seem to limit itself to summoning a single Burn patch; it might be summoning one for each target in range. And since activating Burn also technically targets the caster (for the Immob protection), it probably always summons at least 2.

Yes, I actually managed to level my Fire Brute to grab Burn since I made that post and confirmed that's what it does. I tried to find the post, but it seems to have vanished. Maybe the thread was deleted? Anyway, that'd also explain why Burn sends enemies rocketing off with the Avalanche: Chance for Knockdown proc, since it'd be making up to 6 proc attempts on targets at once.

[Purrfekshawn]

According to Our testing burn patches of both Assault Bot and Arsonist thug don't inherit accuracy, Arsonist patches also scare targets, which, We suppose, they shouldn't do. Our guess is that ALL patches were initially supposed to be AUTOHITS. You stand in a puddle of burning gasoline, how can you dodge it?

[Unknown Magi]

The many burn patches phenomenon certainly explains why it has an insane proc rate, which is something I've been trying to puzzle out for weeks.  Many thanks for the educational post!