Build Up

[Uun]

With Fury, how necessary is Build Up on a Brute? Curious what folks are doing.

[Werner]

Generally, no. With the massive damage buff I would normally have with Fury, Build Up can vary from not much help to, if I recall correctly, actually decreasing DPS since it takes time to activate, time you could have spent on an attack. 
 

Edit: Looks like I did the math here for my Katana/Dark, and concluded that Build Up was likely a wash for that build.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Werner

[nihilii]

I will take Build Up and stick a Gaussian set in it if I can use the +2.5% def to all. It's useful against high defense enemies or while tohit debuffed, it can be used without rooting so that's "free" animation time while hopping from group to group, and more often than not burst damage matters more than sustained DPS.

But it's definitely not necessary on a Brute by any stretch of the imagination. Easy skip if you'd rather have something else.

[SuperPlyx]

Yes, but only if there's nothing else I want

 

I like to try and use it right before fight starts, clear one mob, move on, click build up right before attacking next mob.

[ShardWarrior]

19 hours ago, nihilii said:

I will take Build Up and stick a Gaussian set in it if I can use the +2.5% def to all. It's useful against high defense enemies or while tohit debuffed, it can be used without rooting so that's "free" animation time while hopping from group to group, and more often than not burst damage matters more than sustained DPS.

Same here. 

[Parabola]

I found it worth taking on a war mace brute while doing a load of pylon testing with different secondarys. My builds weren't optimised for bleeding edge dps though. With the guassians proc in it you get quite a damage spike even through fullish fury. Certainly not a mandatory pick though.

[Shred Monkey]

Yes while leveling up.  I use it when I am tohit debuffed, and I don't have endurance efficiency to run all the toggles I would be taking anyway.

 

No in my final build.  If I want the Gaussian set or proc, I put it in Tactics or Focused Accuracy.

[Sovera]

I find the arguments counter to using BU a bit odd. I always take it and don't see a reason to ditch free extra damage. It would take me to be at the damage cap not to take it.

 

If nothing else it's a renewable red insp that I can munch every 30 seconds.

 

More to the point if we are running to the next group of enemies and are doing nothing because they aren't in range, they why not click on it so it's active by the time we -are- in melee range of the enemies?

[Uun]

I ended up taking it and one-slotting it with the Gaussian's proc. Pretty much guaranteed double build-up every time I use it.

[Shred Monkey]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

I find the arguments counter to using BU a bit odd. I always take it and don't see a reason to ditch free extra damage. It would take me to be at the damage cap not to take it.

 

If nothing else it's a renewable red insp that I can munch every 30 seconds.

 

More to the point if we are running to the next group of enemies and are doing nothing because they aren't in range, they why not click on it so it's active by the time we -are- in melee range of the enemies?

The math is basic.  By using build-up you skip an attack.  If the added damage from the bonus is less that the damage from that missed attack, then build-up hurt you rather than helped you. 

 

Brutes, have a low base damage, so the bonus from buildup is multiplied by a relatively low amount compared to other damage ATs.   On the other hand the skipped attack is boosted by fury.  Thus if fury is high it is very possible that missed attack out damages the build-up bonus.   

 

In the end, Brutes, benefit the least from buildup of all ATs.  And in some cases the Brute doesn't benefit at all.

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

The math is basic.  By using build-up you skip an attack.  If the added damage from the bonus is less that the damage from that missed attack, then build-up hurt you rather than helped you. 

 

Brutes, have a low base damage, so the bonus from buildup is multiplied by a relatively low amount compared to other damage ATs.   On the other hand the skipped attack is boosted by fury.  Thus if fury is high it is very possible that missed attack out damages the build-up bonus.   

 

In the end, Brutes, benefit the least from buildup of all ATs.  And in some cases the Brute doesn't benefit at all.

The math may be basic (and I would take it with a grain of salt) but the reasoning remains odd.

 

If you're running to a pack of enemies you're not attacking since they are not in melee range yet. You click BU as you run. By the time you're in melee range and can attack BU is in effect.

 

No attacks were skipped and the first 2-3 attacks are boosted by 160% damage (80% BU, 80% Gaussian). On a Brute or a Scrapper or a Tanker I don't run to the enemies until I am rubbing my nose on theirs, and -then- press BU. I use it as I run so my first attacks are boosted for additional burst.

 

 

In WoW cooldowns are divided into 'uses every fight' and 'saved for when it matters'. Time to run between enemies is taken into account. There is no buff that we can click for 100% time, but, there are buffs that are available at every start of the fight since between killing the rest of the enemies and then run to the next pack the buff has finished recharging. BU is very much in this category and we can unleash the initial burst of AoE boosted by 160% damage + Fury. There is no need to choose and pick which to go with.

 

This sort of math in any other game I'd say to just hit something for a minute with and without using BU and report the empirical results, but in CoH with 5% whiffs it's heh to test stuff.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Sovera

[Werner]

I think between the benefits of double build up and using it to help burst damage at the start of a fight, I’m changing my answer to taking it on a Brute if I could fit it in. DPS generally takes second fiddle to burst AoE, and double build up likely helps DPS too. And I’m guessing that you can hit Paragon Protectors with +80% to hit.

[skoryy]

*grumbles in Staff Fighting*

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 9/6/2020 at 5:45 PM, skoryy said:

*grumbles in Staff Fighting*

Staff/Bio Brute: Form of Body and Offensive Adaptation on top of Fury? Thing of gorram beauty. Almost makes me never want to utilize the powers that eat up Form of Body buff.

[Nyghtmaire]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:18 PM, Werner said:

I think between the benefits of double build up and using it to help burst damage at the start of a fight, I’m changing my answer to taking it on a Brute if I could fit it in. DPS generally takes second fiddle to burst AoE, and double build up likely helps DPS too. And I’m guessing that you can hit Paragon Protectors with +80% to hit.

Yep, run and gun, err... sword/punch/kick is the way. What else will one do with an itchy pinky chasing the next spawn trying to keep fury up?