To DFB or Not to GRIEFER(!)

[Mum]

    Today I ran a series of DFB's (Death from Below), only to end up with every one of them as a fail because I discovered there is a group of individuals intentionally throwing the game by attacking corpses before the boss is down.  This is not an isolated incident, as this has happened on numerous toons I have started.  It is beyond frustration and needs GM intervention to get these people's minds focused on either helping people to succeed or stay out of the areas where they have become griefers and not fellow players.  I understand not everyone likes to run the same content over and over but do not take it to another level and harassment add as a way to combat boredom.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Mum

[Greycat]

There *are* people who don't get that sands - or a confuse - doesn't help.

 

Tell everyone to stay at the top of the "hill" that goes down to Meinst. Go down, use something to pull her, and run back up to that spot. SHe's much faster than her zombies and will make it there and generally get beaten down before they show up. Makes it harder for someone to kill a zombie.

[Mum]

Interesting idea...thanks Greycat!

[Mucera]

In my experience the badge for Meinst is a 50/50 chance, with the biggest culprits either Sands of Mu, Barrels or kids playing who either don't read chat or don't comprehend what it entails. 

Never had the impression it was done on purpose (Excelsior). 

In my experience it often takes quiet a while to whittle her down, depending on the level and classes of people involved. 

 

But mostly, just reminding people not to use pets, AoE, Cones like Sands of Mu usually helps.

 

I just wouldn't worry to much about that badge right away, hope the rest of your experiences are more positive. 
I would be happy to run DfB with you if you need the badge on some toon. (Server doesn't matter for that one luckily)

[ZorkNemesis]

I've never seen people intentionally muck up that badge myself, but have seen plenty of failed attempts usually due to some kind of negligence.  Sands is a big offender but sometimes people often forget or mistakenly use other AoEs.  There's also cases where you bring a MM and they let their pets act on their own, negligence once again (I see some people outright tell MMs to get rid of their pets sometimes before engaging).  DoT auras and other melee cones also come out at times; Slice/Flashing Steel/Defensive Sweep are all cones too.

 

But I don't think i've ever seen anyone intentionally target the extra zombies.  Either that or i've never noticed, it can be pretty crazy in there at times.

[Mum]

"Tell everyone to stay at the top of the "hill" that goes down to Meinst. Go down, use something to pull her, and run back up to that spot."

 

This idea worked like a charm and many huge thanks to Grey Cat for reminding me of an old school tactic in overcoming a difficult mob surrounded by yard trash. ♥♥♥♥♥

 

 

 

 

"There's also cases where you bring a MM and they let their pets act on their own, negligence once again (I see some people outright tell MMs to get rid of their pets sometimes before engaging)."

 

I totally disagree with this mindset Zork, as I run dozens of variations of MM's and keep a tight knit on my pets...and have succeeded in quite a few boss raids on the corpse boss.

 

 

 

 

"But I don't think i've ever seen anyone intentionally target the extra zombies.  Either that or i've never noticed, it can be pretty crazy in there at times."

 

I have seen people intentionally target corpses and when they are outted in chat they come up with excuses like:

 

-"I just got out of the hospital and thought he was dead"-

 

-"This is a stupid badge and a dumb mission that no one needs anyway"-

[ShardWarrior]

9 hours ago, Mum said:

    Today I ran a series of DFB's (Death from Below), only to end up with every one of them as a fail because I discovered there is a group of individuals intentionally throwing the game by attacking corpses before the boss is down.  This is not an isolated incident, as this has happened on numerous toons I have started.  It is beyond frustration and needs GM intervention to get these people's minds focused on either helping people to succeed or stay out of the areas where they have become griefers and not fellow players.  I understand not everyone likes to run the same content over and over but do not take it to another level and harassment add as a way to combat boredom.

If these were all PUGs, what do you expect? 

[huang3721]

12 minutes ago, Mum said:

This idea worked like a charm

You got the badge then? Congrats!👍

[jubakumbi]

How does 'pugs bad at following instructions' become 'players activiely sabotaging'other players'?

So, you had trouble getting a badge that like others point out is about a 50/50 shot most of the time on a PUG, and your FIRST inclination is to post on the ofrums that other players are actively trying to ruin your fun...

 

"You are not actively helping me, so you are a bad person" is no way to treat other gamers.

[Oskmey]

Last DFB I was on the star asked if we wanted badges and everyone said, "Nope." We ended up with one of them anyway. The two before then the star said it would be a badge run both in the recruiting and once the team was formed. The star then gave clear directions on how to achieve both at the beginning and then before each mob where it mattered and asked for no temp powers to be used. Badges obtained, no problem.

That said, I have been on badge runs where the group ran forward like Ritki monkeys, smashing anything in their path. I just muttered, followed the directions anyway, finished the run, and then found another group to run with.

[drgantz]

I used to get really angry when someone messed up the badge, since I usually explain it before we attack.  I've now realized that I do DFB many times, even at high level.  DFB gets good SOs.  In addition, sometimes no one else is running a good group, so DFB is my main option, and it is quick exp.

[DoctorDitko]

I know one of my MMs unintentionally wrecked the badge when I had pets set to passive and a zombie attacked them. So it may sometimes be a legit accident.

 

Dismissing pets first seems to be safest.

 

I would love to know the secret if someone knows how.

Edited October 8, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[Mum]

"If these were all PUGs, what do you expect? "

 

    I totally disagree with this concept ShardWarrior, Pugs have just as much of a mixture as SG's do, as groups in general will accept anyone that applies at the front door.  Yes, most do have rules in place to out the unruly, however I have seen a few leaders more tolerant than others simply because they wish to "get along with the masses."  I don't disagree or agree with this concept as everyone runs their ship as they see fit, and who am I to judge a leader's views.  Pugs and SG's are what they are.....people or groups of people working for the same goal.

 

 

 

 

JubaKumbi - "How does 'pugs bad at following instructions' become 'players activiely sabotaging'other players'?

So, you had trouble getting a badge that like others point out is about a 50/50 shot most of the time on a PUG, and your FIRST inclination is to post on the ofrums that other players are actively trying to ruin your fun..."

 

"You are not actively helping me, so you are a bad person" is no way to treat other gamers.

 

 

    I see I need to clarify this more, as there are a group of individuals that will sabotage groups simply for the fun of doing so.  Possibly one person with a bunch of alts or possibly a group of people with the same agenda. Who knows with the ability to make a bunch of alts?  It only takes one  team member to ruin a badge run by killing a single corpse....not the entire team.  I have chatted with other members teams and team leaders on a member's behavior of sabotage and many agree there is a problem.  Some have said ignorance and stupidity are at play when people do not listen to simple instructions at the beginning of a run.  Thus, it is not just me posting here and finally speaking out.  I'm just one of the few finally willing to say something and not grumble in a corner while nothing is said openly on 'bad behavior."

 

 

 

 

"You got the badge then? Congrats!"

 

Thanks Huang!

 

[jubakumbi]

12 minutes ago, Mum said:

 

    I see I need to clarify this more, as there are a group of individuals that will sabotage groups simply for the fun of doing so.  Possibly one person with a bunch of alts or possibly a group of people with the same agenda. Who knows with the ability to make a bunch of alts?  It only takes one  team member to ruin a badge run by killing a single corpse....not the entire team.  I have chatted with other members teams and team leaders on a member's behavior of sabotage and many agree there is a problem.  Some have said ignorance and stupidity are at play when people do not listen to simple instructions at the beginning of a run.  Thus, it is not just me posting here and finally speaking out.  I'm just one of the few finally willing to say something and not grumble in a corner while nothing is said openly on 'bad behavior."

 

So you and a few other people you talked to agree there is a nefarious player at work who is out to ruin your fun and it's a 'problem'.

You sound like a conspiracy theorist.

That's called anecdotal evidence and perception bias, just to get started, not to mention a small, unrelaible sample size that consists of nothing more than a few players unhappy they did not get a badge in a video game.

 

Are there trolls that play video games?

Sure, just research the Dark Tetrad.

 

Is this some 'problem' that needs solving with such lacking and completely biased 'evidence' and POVs?

NOPE.

Edited October 8, 2020 by jubakumbi
speeling

[Mum]

28 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

I know one of my MMs unintentionally wrecked the badge when I had pets set to passive and a zombie attacked them. So it may sometimes be a legit accident.

 

Dismissing pets first seems to be safest.

 

I would love to know the secret if someone knows how.

Hi Doc!

 

   I have the perfect solution for controlling your pets (well....I cannot say absolutely perfect as pets tend to get weird pathing on stairs and other areas with multiple floors, where they run about randomly instead of going where they are told) as I have used this formula and can keep pets on a reasonably tight leash.   Just go into "Options" tab then go to the final tab marked "Windows."  After doing this scroll down to "Pets" and you will see the listing "Advanced Pet Controls" and enable this option.  Doing this will allow you access to the finer controls for the pet such as Attack, Stay, Go To, etc.  To access the commands just click on the tiny icon in the "Pet Window" after you summon your pets and there will be a drop down of the commands.  Then click and drag each of these to a hot bar and then you can quick access these at any time.

[Mum]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

So you and a few other people you talked to agree there is a nefarious player at work who is out to ruin your fun and it's a 'problem'.

You sound like a conspiracy theorist.

That's called anecdotal evidence and perception bias, just to get started, not to mention a small, unrelaible sample size that consists of nothing more than a few players unhappy they did not get a badge in a video game.

 

Are there trolls that play video games?

Sure, just research the Dark Tetrad.

 

Is this some 'problem' that needs solving with such lacking and completely biased 'evidence' and POVs?

NOPE.

Conspiracy theorist?  Really?

 

Not going to give more than that to this portion of the discussion.

[jubakumbi]

Just now, Mum said:

Conspiracy theorist?  Really?

 

Not going to give more than that to this portion of the discussion.

Give or not give whatever you like.

You rolled up throwing out completely unrelaible data in an attempt to sway people into thinking there is a concerted effort, by possibly multiple players, to ruin the fun of getting a DFB badge, which you were then able to easily get with simple a change of approach.

 

How does that not sound like a conspiracy theory?

You are using anecdotal evidence and the inherently unreliable testimony of humans to try and make people think there are players 'out to ruin the fun'...

 

Sounds like a pretty cray-cray POV to me.

 

Sure, there are people who don't play well with others.

To try and conflate that into there being some problem that needs solving over this badge?

Conspiracy Theory Territory, IMO.

[DoctorDitko]

Thanks, Mum!

I always use the advanced pet controls, but I appreciate the good advice.

(Now if they were only available for Controllers, I'd be a very happy hero. Actually, I'd settle for the basic controls for er, controllers!)

 

I was embarrassed by my pets going after the minions, still not sure why.

Not a huge DFB fan anyway, so it seldom comes up, but I still wonder what went wrong.

[Mum]

Much welcome Doc!

[Blastit]

"A group of individuals"? Heh. Some people don't read chat, or have other chat channels active instead, or simply aren't very competent. It happens.

[ForeverLaxx]

3 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Thanks, Mum!

I always use the advanced pet controls, but I appreciate the good advice.

(Now if they were only available for Controllers, I'd be a very happy hero. Actually, I'd settle for the basic controls for er, controllers!)

 

I was embarrassed by my pets going after the minions, still not sure why.

Not a huge DFB fan anyway, so it seldom comes up, but I still wonder what went wrong.

In addition to this, there is a default command tied to one of the buttons that I suggest every MM change. For reference, you get 3 buttons to command all your pets at once (and smaller buttons above each pet's health bar if you want to command them individually). Those three main buttons are Attack, Follow, and Heel. Attack and Heel work like you'd expect in that one makes them aggressive and the other makes them totally passive. Follow, however, is the one I tell players to change if they want to use the default buttons and not custom macros.

 

If you right-click Follow, you can see what the command does. Notice that it says Follow/Aggressive. This means that command will have your pets follow you around... until something gets in their aggro range, at which point they'll break off and start attacking things. This is no good for teaming in general. I always suggest changing the word Aggressive to Defensive. What that does is it causes your pet to ignore any enemy until it actively damages the pet or the MM first. Also, this is the easiest way to know you're in "Bodyguard Mode", as pets in Defensive stance are what counts for the damage redistribution.

 

That's the only change I ever make to my MMs and it was the AT I played the most on villain-side Live. Why in the world the Devs thought an aggressive follow command would be desirable when Attack defaults to that with no targets around, especially considering Bodyguard is a thing, still confused me. Pretty sure I pointed that out in the Beta but I digress.

[DoctorDitko]

ABSOLUTELY!

First thing I do on MMs, and thanks for bringing it up!

 

MMs with well-behaved pets are a joy, and more of us should be out there making teammates joyful.

 

(Now, if my Illusion pets would allow me to control them the least little bit, I, too would be joyful.)

One can but hope...

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[Hew]

Ok, so first  up, DFB isnt meant to be some sort of pass-fail non-noob thing you play. It is _explicitly_ for noobs. And in the count of noobs, you have advanced players with new alts, and new players with first time chars.

 

Going in with pass-fail mentality is 100% against the purpose the "event" was made for. Same with DIB. If getting the badge on that particular character you are playing is such an issue, be selective, but be aware that by doing so, you are going against the very nature and purpose of this "event".

 

Imagine if you are first time player, never done anything in the game before, jumping in a DFB because hey, people say its fine, and im a brand new low level char. You get in, things go well, and then suddenly people are yelling at you because you did something that may not have been abundantly to you, and now you don't want to do it again!!!

 

How is that fair to that new player?

[Player2]

Another "fun" fail is that there are proximity explosives to the sides of Meinst, and if players run too close to get away from attacking mobs, the explosion can kill the mobs and ruin the badge effort as sure as actively targeting a minion and killing it intentionally.

[Riverdusk]

On 10/8/2020 at 4:58 PM, DoctorDitko said:

ABSOLUTELY!

First thing I do on MMs, and thanks for bringing it up!

 

MMs with well-behaved pets are a joy, and more of us should be out there making teammates joyful.

 

(Now, if my Illusion pets would allow me to control them the least little bit, I, too would be joyful.)

One can but hope...

 

I'd be happy with just making them non-solid so that I and teammates could pass through them and not be blocked by them.  The same as was done for MM pets.  Unlike MM pets (which was a great change!), a bunch of phantom army pets can still clog up sewer doorways, caves, or small rooms.