Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[BrandX]

I will say, I like seeing Barrage get something that has people eyeing it over Energy Punch.  I wouldn't be upset if it was back in Bone Smasher.  That said, while I want to work toward some solid ST DPS numbers, I was never going to worry enough, that I was going to be all "Noooo!  Wasting it on Bone Smasher!"  😛

[Troo]

23 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Shaking from the reverberations in the earth as fragments of your opponent's skull are sent into the stratosphere?

This is only accurate with a ground punch animation for PC. 😛

 

On 11/1/2020 at 3:54 PM, ScarySai said:

oppressive gloom and cloak of fear are generally considered skippable powers and it's really not comparable.

Typically I take both, but maybe not for full time toggles.. just fyi

 

side note: Testing scrappers; mid levels with /dark I spent too much time unable to jump up for the PC cone and Oppressive Gloom detoggled often.

 

5 hours ago, Tsuko said:

But for a leveling tanker rad em "traped" in a posi or a synapse in PUG with no effective support, the 250% will allow the team to kill the Final boss

I thought we needed Energy Focus for the -regen, is that not right?

 

If we don't have Total Focus yet, then EF is unavailable... self correction Tankers get TF at 20 now. So on a tanker, not for Posi's but yes for Synapse (right?)

Edited November 3, 2020 by Troo

[Naraka]

8 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

Understand one thing about designers and balancing powers: A power is generally balanced around its main purpose. With Power Crash as a damaging power with a secondary effect that is a chance to Stun, it gets balanced as a damage power and does full damage according to the damage formula (plus perhaps balance adjustments for the set).

If you want it to be a 100% Stun, then it will probably get balanced as a Mez power with some damage, and it seems quite likely that its damage would be lowered.

Considering that the set can reliably Stun hard targets, while its AoE is sub-par, it seems that more players would get the benefit of full AoE damage, than of 100% chance to Stun. So, while there would be some players (obviously) who may really want the guaranteed Stuns, my opinion is that more players will appreciate higher AoE damage than higher Stunning ability.

It isn't unprecedented to have a guaranteed Mez on a high damage power. 

 

I would like confirmation that, if PC has a 100% stun on the primary target rather than the current iteration of Energy Punch+focus, that it would be unbalanced so the damage would have to be lowered. While I can understand your rationalization, you're not describing anything I haven't already concluded. The point of my feedback is the set now has to fulfill conditions (and they are much more restrictive on a non-Scrap/Stalk) to achieve the same level of functionality. Again, the rationalization had been "it has AoE now" but that argument is particularly lacking considering the set was nearly last in that department as was ST DPS and likely isn't winning any rewards in those regards now.

 

Overall, the perspective is coming from a player who used Stun and now gets Stun with extra steps and only sometimes. I don't think the power would have to be lowered for the sake of the effect I'm advocating, only losing the 100%stun on EP+focus.

 

 

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

It isn't unprecedented to have a guaranteed Mez on a high damage power. 

Total Focus does have a 100% mag 3 over 10 sec stun. I didn't use it for that previously because it was too slow. Now, that is my Stun power replacement.

 

The question I asked myself: Would I trade the power Stun for the old faster Energy Transfer? Absolutely!

 

I do hear what you are saying. PC could totally do what you are suggesting and it is not an awful idea.

 

PC could also do it without the combo mechanic. Or off of build up (which fits both the larger AoE and the added Stun). There are lots of ways it could be done differently. Ideas are getting batted around. You have been heard. Nothing is guaranteed, it's a beta.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Troo

[Tsuko]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

This is only accurate with a ground punch animation for PC.

 

Typically I take both, but maybe not for full time toggles.. just fyi

 

I thought we needed Energy Focus for the -regen, is that not right?

 

If we don't have Total Focus yet, then EF is unavailable... self correction Tankers get TF at 20 now. So on a tanker, not for Posi's but yes for Synapse (right?)

yeah ty 🙂 as a Native from Rogue Isles, your dam Strike forces are... weird 😛

 

Meaning that, From SYNAPSE, this very Rad / EM tanker can have enough -regen to allow PUG leveling team to kill an av with way more ease even if they dont have well slotted support and/or no support at all. Case sadly happening so often.

 

IT's clearly a niche use but now it's almost a "Tanker" special, which is fine, Barrage being a leveling power that only Tankers are forced to use.

[Troo]

5 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

yeah ty 🙂 as a Native from Rogue Isles, your dam Strike forces are... weird 😛

Everyone loves a redside tanker!

 

It's more than a niche if you find it beneficial. Providing Tankers some love on Barrage is a pretty cool result of all this.

[Tsuko]

12 minutes ago, Troo said:

Everyone loves a redside tanker!

So you meaned a Brute ?

 

😄

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Total Focus does have a 100% mag 3 over 10 sec stun. I didn't use it for that previously because it was too slow. Now, that is my Stun power replacement.

 

The question I asked myself: Would I trade the power Stun for the old faster Energy Transfer? Absolutely!

 

 

Well, if you actually enjoyed building for the Mez moreso than the damage, every guaranteed stun=a pesky target temporarily nullified with the help of OG so it's more of a cumulative effect moreso than an either or choice of Stun and TF... Or it would be if that functionality remains more similar.

 

Having TF pushing out with a faster animation does improve that aspect of the power's purpose but if you're not rocking great rech bonuses to get TF up faster, your going to get less stun potential.

 

1 hour ago, Troo said:

 

I do hear what you are saying. PC could totally do what you are suggesting and it is not an awful idea.

 

PC could also do it without the combo mechanic. Or off of build up (which fits both the larger AoE and the added Stun). There are lots of ways it could be done differently. Ideas are getting batted around. You have been heard. Nothing is guaranteed, it's a beta.

 

I understand that. What i don't understand is random schmucks shouting me down for suggesting to ADD to the current changes since a lot of the feedback seemed aimed at the upper set ups and not much of the niche perspectives. To be brutally honest, I don't have the patience to test anything, just try stuff by doodling with it. From my time with it, I can't juggle targets as neatly and relies more on rolling dice for random stuns from the AoEs which isn't as fun.

 

Another possible avenue is just giving the different ATs different spenders/gainers of Energy Focus. We kind of already see that with Stalkers/Scrappers but Tankers/Brutes get a less specialized version of the spenders. Maybe they could have a higher control version instead? 

[Infinitum]

34 minutes ago, Naraka said:

To be brutally honest, I don't have the patience to test anything

Thats kinda important to be able to give quality feedback.

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

Thats kinda important to be able to give quality feedback.

Do you really want to start this?

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

Do you really want to start this?

Nah I think your above statement tells me all I need to know.

[Naraka]

Just now, Infinitum said:

Nah I think your above statement tells me all I need to know.

That you took that sentence out of context to make it sound like I didn't play the set to smear? I should report your post for being off topic.

[ScarySai]

Going to hard disagree with Bopper and Monos here. The current build is way, WAY better than the first. Bone smasher not being locked away and putting the stun into barrage makes much more sense and clearly leads to less frustration.

 

Imagine not being able to hit your third strongest attack because it will stop you from using one of the strongest attacks in the game. Terrible. But if I want to occasionally stun and debuff someone? Barrage.

 

And again, nobody should have any trouble landing stuns as EM even without focus gaming. Bone smasher by itself is a 60% chance for a mag 3.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

And again, nobody should have any trouble landing stuns as EM even without focus gaming. Bone smasher by itself is a 60% chance for a mag 3

Yeah having tested this since late July, I have never had any issues landing stuns across all ATs across a variety of levels and across a variety of enemies.

 

I really dont understand the stun complaint because its really reliable and easy to do.

[ScarySai]

I can casually lockdown +4 AVs before triangles just doing my rotation. It's really not worth "correcting" for. I daresay this is probably as perfect as the set is going to get, any deviations will likely be less enjoyable.

[Leogunner]

2 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

I really dont understand the stun complaint because its really reliable and easy to do.

Is that using your builds that keep non-purple triangle AVs stunned?  How much recharge do those builds have?

 

Just now, ScarySai said:

I can casually lockdown +4 AVs before triangles just doing my rotation. 

You replied before I could hit reply.  My guess is: a decent amount.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

I can casually lockdown +4 AVs before triangles just doing my rotation. It's really not worth "correcting" for. I daresay this is probably as perfect as the set is going to get, any deviations will likely be less enjoyable.

I have had similar experiences when testing this.  Not at all unheard to lock an AV down.

[ScarySai]

2 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Is that using your builds that keep non-purple triangle AVs stunned?  How much recharge do those builds have?

 

You replied before I could hit reply.  My guess is: a decent amount.

Rotations that use bone smasher are a lit less intensive than ep>x>ep rotations. I can run it at 160% recharge and can probably go lower.

 

Even non-BS rotations can stun lock, though. Beating down +4 numina and having her wobble around is always fun.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Is that using your builds that keep non-purple triangle AVs stunned?  How much recharge do those builds have?

Its not slanted towards recharge - I am 15-20 sec from perma hasten.

 

I could swap a few things to get perma but I don't want to give up survivability.

[Monos King]

17 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Going to hard disagree with Bopper and Monos here. The current build is way, WAY better than the first. Bone smasher not being locked away and putting the stun into barrage makes much more sense and clearly leads to less frustration.

*throws glove at face*

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

Rotations that use bone smasher are a lit less intensive than ep>x>ep rotations. I can run it at 160% recharge and can probably go lower.

 

Even non-BS rotations can stun lock, though. Beating down +4 numina and having her wobble around is always fun.

 

Just now, Infinitum said:

Its not slanted towards recharge - I am 15-20 sec from perma hasten.

 

I could swap a few things to get perma but I don't want to give up survivability.

I think you're kind of missing where I'm getting at in that overall, the stunning and EF mechanic is heavily centered on one power.  And stunning 1 target is different from juggling several.  I think part of the difference can be made up with fast-ET but that isn't a guaranteed stun either so you're going to be relying on random stuns or spitting out TFs as fast as you can.  If you happen to not be a +rech build, you're obviously going to get even less stun that way.

 

...but feel free to discard my statements.  I actually haven't logged into the game in some time.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

 

I think you're kind of missing where I'm getting at in that overall, the stunning and EF mechanic is heavily centered on one power.  And stunning 1 target is different from juggling several.  I think part of the difference can be made up with fast-ET but that isn't a guaranteed stun either so you're going to be relying on random stuns or spitting out TFs as fast as you can.  If you happen to not be a +rech build, you're obviously going to get even less stun that way.

 

...but feel free to discard my statements.  I actually haven't logged into the game in some time.

You should really log into beta and try it then, its a really fun set that layers stun and is reliable also - with excellent damage.

[ScarySai]

4 minutes ago, Monos King said:

*throws glove at face*

That's it.

 

3 stock ultimate final destination, come at me.

 

5 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

 

I think you're kind of missing where I'm getting at in that overall, the stunning and EF mechanic is heavily centered on one power.  And stunning 1 target is different from juggling several.  I think part of the difference can be made up with fast-ET but that isn't a guaranteed stun either so you're going to be relying on random stuns or spitting out TFs as fast as you can.  If you happen to not be a +rech build, you're obviously going to get even less stun that way.

 

...but feel free to discard my statements.  I actually haven't logged into the game in some time.

No, I got what you said, you're just vastly underestimating the stun chances when you consider how fast the attacks are now, how high the stun chances are, and how well the set does at AoE and target swapping now.

 

The rotations are very adaptable. Focus is really just a way to allow ET and PC to be as strong as they are without getting nerfed to oblivion. The -special strikes me as more of a team utility, or leveling tool. Not really my cup of tea, especially when it stops me from using my best filler attack.

[Leogunner]

6 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

No, I got what you said, you're just vastly underestimating the stun chances when you consider how fast the attacks are now, how high the stun chances are, and how well the set does at AoE and target swapping now.

 

The rotations are very adaptable. Focus is really just a way to allow ET and PC to be as strong as they are without getting nerfed to oblivion. The -special strikes me as more of a team utility, or leveling tool. Not really my cup of tea, especially when it stops me from using my best filler attack.

I mean, you're not convincing me as I'm not the target.  It was mostly around those that would rather use BS instead of EP.  If it's about power-pick economy, you might be flubbing your build to fit in the extra stun or just skipping it, really only leaving you with ET and TF as the staple targets of this buff.

 

Tangent: since I haven't read anywhere close to this whole thread, did anyone consider that idea @Naraka posted about maybe diversifying the spenders by AT?  Maybe give people the option for either if they just pick a different AT.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I mean, you're not convincing me as I'm not the target.  It was mostly around those that would rather use BS instead of EP.  If it's about power-pick economy, you might be flubbing your build to fit in the extra stun or just skipping it, really only leaving you with ET and TF as the staple targets of this buff.

 

Tangent: since I haven't read anywhere close to this whole thread, did anyone consider that idea @Naraka posted about maybe diversifying the spenders by AT?  Maybe give people the option for either if they just pick a different AT.

The latest patch kinda already allows for this situationally.

 

FET is good across all Ats but is favored on scrappers and stalkers because of double focus capability

 

Barrage being -regen and stun favors tankers

 

PC - is favored on tankers with larger target cap and stalkers - increased dmg.

 

All of them works across all ATs and you can even mix it up under double focus.

 

As far as stuns go, its reliable, by any normal attack chain of any power choice combination you are going to get stuns reliably.

 

Its a very versatile set that offers up different strengths across all ATs while being reliable in each of those offerings.