Focused Feedback: PvP Updates

[VileTerror]

Not having access to the Jump Pack in PvP Zones makes it incredibly difficult to navigate for PvE, Badging, and zone-event activities.

[reib]

6 hours ago, VileTerror said:

Not having access to the Jump Pack in PvP Zones makes it incredibly difficult to navigate for PvE, Badging, and zone-event activities.

Wait...In a game who let you have all kind of travel powers you don't have enough movement to grab some badge around a zone? Badging was "incredibly difficult" before Jump packs existed? Why you can't use Raptor pack for badging? Wath Is the difference? I understand to have objections but sorry this sound just comic...

Edited November 7, 2020 by reib

[VileTerror]

Who's level 50 in this scenario?

[reib]

5 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

Who's level 50 in this scenario?

Wath?

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, VileTerror said:

Not having access to the Jump Pack in PvP Zones makes it incredibly difficult to navigate for PvE, Badging, and zone-event activities.

The good news is there aren't any badges that require the usage of the Jump Pack in RV (all on the ground).

 

As for the rest of the PvP zones, they can be collected without the Jump Pack if you jump on the geometry of buildings, use any vertical-capable travel pool powers, or ask for assistance from someone with team tp (like the old days of badge collecting!). I would notch this one to a minor inconvenience, but note worthy for its impact nonetheless. 

 

As for PvE content and zone-event activities in PvP zones, I am pretty familiar with each PvP zone and I can't think of a reason to need the Jump Pack. Sometimes I try to get on top of the Warburg rocket after I launch it, but I am never quick enough. What are your experiences?

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Build 3 - November 7th, 2020

@Jimmy, I didn't see this in the Beta Build 3 you posted in this thread, but in the Beta Patch Notes Build 3 it noted that "RV Support AV's" levels were reduced from 54 to 52. I spawned Lord Recluse and Ghost Widow to test/confirm, and it appears their levels were removed entirely. 

 

[Troo]

Nine new arena zones.. pretty cool stuff.

 

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

New Arena Map: Ouroboros (2-16 players)

• A new arena map featuring the destroyed version of Ouroboros

Edited November 7, 2020 by Troo

[Jimmy]

@Glacier Peak they use GM scaling which means a level isn't displayed, but they will now have the health of a level 52 mob, rather than a 54 mob.

[macskull]

3 hours ago, VileTerror said:

Not having access to the Jump Pack in PvP Zones makes it incredibly difficult to navigate for PvE, Badging, and zone-event activities.

You can buy a 2-minute version of the Raptor Pack for 10k inf at any arena vendor (I think they are going to be adding vendors that sell them in the PvP zones as well but not 100% sure).

[VileTerror]

I make extensive use of the Jump Pack in all zones, @Glacier Peak.  It's just a really efficient way to gain a little verticality to move over obstacles rather than pathfinding around them.  The improvement to its Cooldown (whether that was a Retail, SCoRE, or Homecoming change, I do not know) was extremely welcome in my eyes when I started on Homecoming.   It's as much a standard part of my play experience as Sprint or Ninja Run.

[America's Angel]

4 hours ago, VileTerror said:

I make extensive use of the Jump Pack in all zones, @Glacier Peak.  It's just a really efficient way to gain a little verticality to move over obstacles rather than pathfinding around them.  The improvement to its Cooldown (whether that was a Retail, SCoRE, or Homecoming change, I do not know) was extremely welcome in my eyes when I started on Homecoming.   It's as much a standard part of my play experience as Sprint or Ninja Run.

Rocket Board, Flying Carpet, and Void Skiff from the P2W still work in PVP zones. So you should be able to badge there just fine. :)

 

Just took this on Brainstorm:

 

[VileTerror]

Don't all of those still cost Inf?

[Monos King]

22 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

Don't all of those still cost Inf?

Yes.

[reib]

2 hours ago, VileTerror said:

Don't all of those still cost Inf?

If this Is a problem give me your global and i send you 1 million. When you run out of 100 Raptor pack i send you another One ♥️

[VileTerror]

I have over 150 characters, with plans for hundreds more.

Do you intend to fund all of them?

[Monos King]

33 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

I have over 150 characters, with plans for hundreds more.

Do you intend to fund all of them?

He's being considerate, if not disingenuous, but I think the point is it's not that big a concern for the PvP community. I myself can't recall of any major issues Jump Pack/ Steam Jump create aside from perhaps pursuit issues, so it isn't that big a deal for me. But if there are substantial issues you can bet it'll stay disabled. If a dev wants to come and refute this they probably will, but in PvP zones PvP concerns should take priority. Particularly if matters are limited to just those zones. Whatever badges or activities you are going there to accomplish are very possible without Jump Pack, and weren't made with an expectation to rely on it. What the badges were created with mind to are exactly whatever rigors you say Jump Pack ameliorated.

 

I'm not dismissing you though, perhaps you could go into detail of what it is the power averted and we'll understand your issues better.

[VileTerror]

From a stance of PvP, I recall a thread recently where someone asked what it would take to get non-PvP'ers more interested and engaged in PvP.

Aside from some players saying "literally nothing," the biggest take-away I got from the thread was "things don't behave the same way in PvP as they do in the rest of the game."

Disabling something like Jump Pack for edge-case hardcore PvPers isn't likely to win over any new blood in to the PvP environment.

I dabble on occasion, but I sure don't like the leagues-of-legends-level of metagame that hardcore PvP entails.  Calling targets?  Having to use discord?  Those are massive barriers to entry.  The Zones should be the accessibility gateway, shouldn't they?  Wouldn't it be wiser to have the Zones behave more like the rest of the game, and if someone gets hooked, THEN you can bring them in to the depths of the mire that is arena culture?

 

As for me, I explained my personal issue in https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/23657-focused-feedback-pvp-updates/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-288316

Was there more to that I could elaborate on to further articulate my concern with this particular issue?

[macskull]

5 minutes ago, Monos King said:

He's being considerate, if not disingenuous, but I think the point is it's not that big a concern for the PvP community. I myself can't recall of any major issues Jump Pack/ Steam Jump create aside from perhaps pursuit issues, so it isn't that big a deal for me. But if there are substantial issues you can bet it'll stay disabled. If a dev wants to come and refute this they probably will, but in PvP zones PvP concerns should take priority. Particularly if matters are limited to just those zones. Whatever badges or activities you are going there to accomplish are very possible without Jump Pack, and weren't made with an expectation to rely on it. What the badges were created with mind to are exactly whatever rigors you say Jump Pack ameliorated.

 

I'm not dismissing you though, perhaps you could go into detail of what it is the power averted and we'll understand your issues better.

Jump Pack/Steam Jump are getting removed because it is possible to chain the two and therefore never touch the ground, ever.

[macskull]

4 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

From a stance of PvP, I recall a thread recently where someone asked what it would take to get non-PvP'ers more interested and engaged in PvP.

Aside from some players saying "literally nothing," the biggest take-away I got from the thread was "things don't behave the same way in PvP as they do in the rest of the game."

Disabling something like Jump Pack for edge-case hardcore PvPers isn't likely to win over any new blood in to the PvP environment.

I dabble on occasion, but I sure don't like the leagues-of-legends-level of metagame that hardcore PvP entails.  Calling targets?  Having to use discord?  Those are massive barriers to entry.  The Zones should be the accessibility gateway, shouldn't they?  Wouldn't it be wiser to have the Zones behave more like the rest of the game, and if someone gets hooked, THEN you can bring them in to the depths of the mire that is arena culture?

 

As for me, I explained my personal issue in https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/23657-focused-feedback-pvp-updates/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-288316

Was there more to that I could elaborate on to further articulate my concern with this particular issue?

You're talking about zone PvP as if it is arena (Discord, coordinated targeting, etc.) and those things do happen sometimes in zone but they are the exception rather than the norm. Rather what this change is seeking to do is incentivize teaming and making it more difficult for one or two players to dominate the zone with powers that absolutely aren't designed with PvP in mind.

[Monos King]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

Jump Pack/Steam Jump are getting removed because it is possible to chain the two and therefore never touch the ground, ever.

Well, there you have it @VileTerror. I agree that changing the behavior of powers between PvP and PvE is troublesome for entry level participants. However, there is nothing more discouraging then the oppressive tactics something like this can result in. Perma-pursuit and abuse of range via the Jump Packs is a no slot route to maximizing your vertical advantage. Flight wouldn't even be as troublesome, as it is very slow and cost a power pick. -Fly also exists in spades. With an issue like this, the minor convenience of Jump Pack would be overshadowed by it's competitive imbalance. Unless it was agreed this wasn't as much a problem, it'll stay deactivated.

 

I believe the only thing to do now would be describing particular instances in which not using Jump Pack is notably disruptive to your experience.

[VileTerror]

As an alternative solution, what if Jump Pack/Steam Pack had the original 5 minute recharge time restored while in PvP zones?  It appears the tech for that now exists, if my understanding of how other Powers behave is correct.

It's a compromise to my playstyle, but at least it doesn't completely disable it.

[Glacier Peak]

Just now, VileTerror said:

As an alternative solution, what if Jump Pack/Steam Pack had the original 5 minute recharge time restored while in PvP zones?  It appears the tech for that now exists, if my understanding of how other Powers behave is correct.

It's a compromise to my playstyle, but at least it doesn't completely disable it.

It was removed specifically to support the play styles of the majority of the types of players who most frequent the zones. It's removal is not likely to be reversed. There are plenty of alternatives to Jump Jet/Steam Pack that have been mentioned in this thread to provide you with a work around when you visit these zones. 

[Maximum1]

Its easy to get stuck in a few maps @America's Angel and I got stuck in a crane and 1on1ed.

 

[xhiggy]

Yeah, on boomtown you can jaunt into some of the crane areas, but can't get out other than jaunting out.

 

Overall it felt like all maps we tried are pretty good for 8v8s (Boomtown, Council Earth, new Industrial, Last Bastion, Luna Square) in terms of size, layout, and geometry. I think a few people mentioned getting stuck on ramps on Industrial, but I didn't have issues.  And someone mentioned one of the map spawns being too close together, but I don't remember which one. Thanks for the work on this, doubling the number of viable team PVP maps is pretty great.

[America's Angel]

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

It was removed specifically to support the play styles of the majority of the types of players who most frequent the zones. It's removal is not likely to be reversed. There are plenty of alternatives to Jump Jet/Steam Pack that have been mentioned in this thread to provide you with a work around when you visit these zones. 

  +1

 

3 hours ago, Maximum1 said:

Its easy to get stuck in a few maps @America's Angel and I got stuck in a crane and 1on1ed.

I step into an 8v8 kickball and it instantly became a 1v1. It's a sign! XD

 

But yeah, you can jaunt into the cranes/cages in Boomtown:

 

 

You can just run out of the end of the cranes/jaunt of out of the cages when this happens. (Being in them makes you unattackable, though.)

 

I also got caught in one of the pipes/ramps in Industrial. Was able to jaunt out of it fine, though.

 

Both still fun maps, regardless.

 

But yeah, loved testing these. <3 to the indom folks for not farming me too much.

Edited November 8, 2020 by America's Angel