Leveraging Sleep?

[Ankhammon]

Has anyone tried the Elec/TA combo?  In particular, I'm thinking about the two sleep powers, Static Field and Poison Gas Arrow.

 

Both of these powers seem to pulse and as such throwing both down presents somewhat of an opportunity... maybe.

 

I just got off test where I tried it on a level 20 and the results were very interesting. Jumped over to Talos and was able to keep a full group asleep (a dozen or so) while spamming jolting chain, chain fences and acid arrow. Didn't get hit once and I don't think they even tried to fire off a shot before they went end flat.

 

Just wondering if anyone uses this combo and has experience with this? What are the limits? Any proc magic being used in addition?

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Ankhammon

[Coyote]

Ele/TA looks like a very good combination, with the Sleeps giving you time to set up all of the TA debuffs without getting attacked. I didn't realize that they would stack so well, but it makes it even better.

If attacking large groups of targets, the Energy Orb ATO in Chain Fences is useful as it only needs to trigger on one target to summon up a floating 15' DoT aura. Damage procs in Jolting Chain and Acid Arrow are obvious.

One interesting thing may be to put the sleep set Chance to Heal Self in Poison Gas Arrow, and add the Power Transfer: Chance to Heal in Jolting along with Entropy. Power Transfer can also be slotted into some other Electric attacks like Chain Fences, and can help against chip damage if individual mobs get a shot off in between being Slept and Knocked down.

[Strawberry]

Sleep is great for solo, but in groups, you will be lucky if one or two baddies on the edge of the power and slightly away from the center of combat stay slept for even a few seconds. That being said, I take Mass Hypnosis on my Mind Controller and, when the power comes in handy, it does feel like a bit of a gamechanger. For example, if another group is aggroed, a patrol comes, or things turn sour and people are running. Generally speaking, I can go a full day of playing without even using the power though. I just felt I had the room and went for it.

[Greycat]

21 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Sleep is great for solo, but in groups, you will be lucky if one or two baddies on the edge of the power and slightly away from the center of combat stay slept for even a few seconds.

Ahh, but *staying* asleep isn't always what's needed. Sleeps can shut off defenses that resist other controls - Ruin Mage and Fake Nemesis FFs being favourite examples of mine. Even if they're woken up immediately after, they can't put those back up right away. Which means less defense or status protection to have to worry about getting through.

[Doomguide2005]

Ooooooo,  wonder if you could Sleep then drain (and keep them drained) a group of AV's, for instance the Freedom Phalanx 

[Doomguide2005]

@5099y_74c05 If you're talking about /Elec as in Electric Blast then yes it has significant -recovery (-100% base) in Short Circuit and at least per Mids is effected by Power Boost/PBU. I was seeing -200% recovery and -70 end in Mids with PB iirc.   Based on Red Tomax there are no indications it can't be stacked and while I couldn't do it with PB I could double stack SC.  Ball Lightning and other blasts also have strong -recovery (-100% again).  The big issue is solo they are relatively short duration effects (the -recovery) and outside of SC the -recovery portions aren't auto but percent chance to occur events.  I was pondering the AV question owing to the pulsing of the sleep effect which ignores their PToD or as Greycat put it staying asleep isn't always what you need.  In this case just as a mitigation (on top of defense/resistance) while you slowly sapped their endurance.  Especially with level shifts and Incarnates involved.  

 

I'm almost certain a 'superteam' of sappers would drain them and fairly quickly even thru their AV resistances.

[Strawberry]

On 1/4/2021 at 11:11 PM, Greycat said:

Ahh, but *staying* asleep isn't always what's needed. Sleeps can shut off defenses that resist other controls - Ruin Mage and Fake Nemesis FFs being favourite examples of mine. Even if they're woken up immediately after, they can't put those back up right away. Which means less defense or status protection to have to worry about getting through.

Totally agreed, and I've also used it in these situations, but it's still a very niche power.

[VV]

I feel like some of y'all don't understand how Electric Control Sleep works. Static Field is different than other sleeps and so much more awesome. It is a field that targets an area, not a specific anchor enemy. Unlike other sleeps, it is not a one-and-done. You set it in its area, and it continues to pulse sleep. So, if someone wakes up because they are attacked, they go back to sleep at the next pulse. No, I don't know how fast the pulses are, but they are fast. So fast that many enemies cannot get an attack off between waking and going back to sleep. It is crazy good.

 

If Poison Gas Arrow works the same way, that would be incredible. Especially if you got lucky and the pulses from each were off-synch, so the SF and PGA pulsed at different times. That would be an almost continuous sleep area.

 

I have SF on an Elec/Nrg dominator and it is crazy. Drop the Static Field, run up with Conductive Aura running, spam Jolting Chain and Chain Fences. Things are sleeping and flopping and in a few seconds, anything that is not dead is out of endurance. I'm telling you guys, it is ridiculous. I would feel bad about it, but then, you know, I don't.

 

Anyway, return to discussion. I think it is a great idea, if it works.

[Doomguide2005]

Yeah, it's been quite a while since Live when I leveled my Electric/RadEm controller but that pulsing is why I wondered if you could basically keep the Freedom Phalanx essentially perma-slept while draining them dry.  Even if one of the draining attacks woke them up, they'd be right back to sleep with the next pulse.

[Rejolt]

Some things to keep in mind for your proc slotting:

 

Procs that affect enemies will only have a chance to proc once off the first target. This means heals, +build up (I had the decimation one in Jolting chain for a bit), will only have a chance to proc once.

Offensive procs have a chance to trigger off each target (Chance for Smashing, Chances for Hold, Chance for Stun, PVP and VR ST damage procs for Jolting chain, etc.)

 

There are limited exceptions - If you use Electrical Affinity and have a chaining buff power then the heal proc can trigger off you for each teammate hit. Power Transfer is amazing for Electric Affinity due to this. Please note that the last time I played my Elec/Elec Defender was weeks ago.

 

As for pulsing sleeps - I made an Elec/TA troller in beta and yes the two pulsing sleeps were nuts to overlap with each other. I just never had any endurance a few seconds into a fight! I also have enough Trick Arrow Projects in the works to roll the elec/ta on live.

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Rejolt

[ChocolateMercenary]

12 hours ago, VV said:

I feel like some of y'all don't understand how Electric Control Sleep works. Static Field is different than other sleeps and so much more awesome. It is a field that targets an area, not a specific anchor enemy. Unlike other sleeps, it is not a one-and-done. You set it in its area, and it continues to pulse sleep. So, if someone wakes up because they are attacked, they go back to sleep at the next pulse. No, I don't know how fast the pulses are, but they are fast. So fast that many enemies cannot get an attack off between waking and going back to sleep. It is crazy good.

 

If Poison Gas Arrow works the same way, that would be incredible. Especially if you got lucky and the pulses from each were off-synch, so the SF and PGA pulsed at different times. That would be an almost continuous sleep area.

 

I have SF on an Elec/Nrg dominator and it is crazy. Drop the Static Field, run up with Conductive Aura running, spam Jolting Chain and Chain Fences. Things are sleeping and flopping and in a few seconds, anything that is not dead is out of endurance. I'm telling you guys, it is ridiculous. I would feel bad about it, but then, you know, I don't.

 

Anyway, return to discussion. I think it is a great idea, if it works.

That patch can also be made perma very easily. Toss Tar Patch under it for real fun.

[VV]

2 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Yeah, it's been quite a while since Live when I leveled my Electric/RadEm controller but that pulsing is why I wondered if you could basically keep the Freedom Phalanx essentially perma-slept while draining them dry.  Even if one of the draining attacks woke them up, they'd be right back to sleep with the next pulse.

Yes, this should definitely work. You might have one take a pot shot every now and then, but barely enough to bother you.

2 hours ago, Rejolt said:

As for pulsing sleeps - I made an Elec/TA troller in beta and yes the two pulsing sleeps were nuts to overlap with each other. I just never had any endurance a few seconds into a fight!

Were you standing in the mob? Seems like Conductive Aura should have been holding you up.

[graeberguinn]

Dammit now I'm thinking of another alt (Electric/TA). Anyone have a build to share? 

[scottocamp]

Here is my Electric/TA build.  My plan was also to double up on sleep fields as a means of locking down mobs.  But the sleep effect from Poison Gas Arrow seems a bit sporadic.  It just didn't seem to add much to what Static Field was already providing.  I have to say I struggled for a long time trying to find a rhythm with this combination.  The two sets together have a ton of great powers but they didn't seem to work together as well as I hoped.  Conductive Aura is amazing but you have to be in the middle of the mob for it to be effective.  Synaptic Overload is great but it causes mobs to scatter.  The revamped Flash Arrow provides wonderful protection assuming you can hit the whole mob.  And so on.  So many powers that needed to be used but not enough time to fire them all off in any effective manner.  Or at least that was my impression as I worked through a couple dozen different builds.  I found myself either frantically trying to throw out all these debuffs to survive while not doing much damage or alternately focusing on damage at the expense of my survival. 

 

Then I discovered Fold Space!!!  Fold Space has made this perhaps my most effective and entertaining toon.  I can now clear mobs incredibly fast.  I mostly farm the Heather Townshend arc and I have been flying through those 4x8 mobs with this build.  I don't believe any other level 50 toon I have can clear mobs as quickly.  Fold Space allows me to activate several powers in advance so that I'm not scrambling to do so much once I engage.  I can then just pull the entire mob into one giant already placed Oil Slick/Static Field/Disruption Arrow/EMP Arrow/Conductive Aura killing zone.  Once I pull the mob to me I hit them first with Flash Arrow and Poison Gas Arrow - which debuffs the full mob.  I don't have to chase a scattered mob around trying to debuff them all to stay alive.  (If the mob is sufficiently clustered I can use Flash Arrow in advance of Fold Space.)  Then I just spam Jolting Chain, Chain Fences, Dark Obliteration and Acid Arrow until everything is dead.  And everything dies very quickly.  Soul Drain from Soul Mastery is also fantastic as I can hit the whole mob for increased To Hit and Damage.   I did not start off with all the purple sets.  I have been adding those over time as I generate cash - mostly to help Oil Slick recharge faster.  The purple sets can be easily swapped out for much cheaper sets like Malaise & Call of the Sandman.  Fold Space recharges very quickly with just a single enhancement.   At first it bothered me that the Gremlins kept initiating combat before I was completely ready.  But now I don't care.  I just let the Gremlins do their thing while I lay down Oil Slick, Static Field & Disruption Arrow in advance of Fold Space.  The Electric/TA combo benefits in such an unimaginable way from clustering all the mobs next to you.  All the mobs are continuously falling / sleeping / losing endurance / burning / being held / losing resistance and generally just flopping all over the place.  It is crazy.  Synaptic Overload is now my "oh crap" power.  If a few hits get through somehow I also lay down the group confuse.  Which is honestly brutal overkill.  I almost feel sorry for the mobs.  I would normally be terrified to have a build with such minimal defense - but I find I rarely ever take any damage.  It seems magical to me.

 

The big downside is getting enough accuracy to make the proc attacks effective and having enough endurance to be spamming all these powers.  Endurance consumption is a very big issue.  Which is why I went with the Vigor Alpha and the Ageless Destiny incarnates.  It also feels odd skipping an AOE hold like Paralyzing Blast but I just did not need yet another way to mess with the mobs.  I also use Stealth to get as close as I can to the mobs without Conductive Aura alerting them to my presence.

 

All this is for solo play of course.  On a team very little of this is effective.  On teams I mostly just use the debuffs, the single target hold, Oil Slick and such. 

 

Here is the build as it currently stands:

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1429&c=735&a=1470&f=HEX&dc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

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by scottocamp