Performance Shifter Proc Question

[Mack008]

Check my math here...

 

Supposed I toss the Performance Shifter proc (+End) in an auto power, such as Stamina.  At 1.5 PPM, it has a 25% chance to go off ever 10 seconds.  When it does, it gives +10% Endurance.

So that works out to (on average) +2.5% End every 10 seconds ( or +0.25% End per second).

 

Checking one of my characters, Thunderstrike's set gives +2% to Recovery which works out to 0.03% End/sec.

 

Am I missing something?  Is the Performance Shifter proc really 10x better than Thunderstrike's bonus?

[tidge]

Recovery rate shortens the 'time between'  +Endurance refills. Every player has a base value (of Recovery), Stamina gives you even more (Recovery), even without specifically slotting it.

 

+End from Performance Shifter is a straight-forward 'Have some more Endurance!' boost, unrelated to Recovery.

 

There is a point of diminishing returns (on Recovery), so it is often the case that bonuses to Recovery do far less than you might expect. IMO It is far better to work on

• Slotting for Endurance Reduction (directly, or indirectly via Incarnates)
• Increasing Maximum Endurance (accolades, set bonuses)
• Getting Global Endurance Discounts (set bonuses)
• leveraging temp powers

The same goes for Health and Regeneration, but because different ATs have different Maximum Health/HP, the break-even point comes at different spots for different ATs.

Edited February 15, 2021 by tidge

[Mack008]

So here's the question:  If I have three slots in Stamina, is it better to:

-- Slot 3 End Mods, or

-- Slot 2 End Mods, and the put a Perf Shifter Proc in the third? 

 

For that matter, is it worth it to add a fourth slot to Stamina and do both (3 End Mod plus the proc)?

 

[EdgeOfDreams]

30 minutes ago, Mack008 said:

So here's the question:  If I have three slots in Stamina, is it better to:

-- Slot 3 End Mods, or

-- Slot 2 End Mods, and the put a Perf Shifter Proc in the third? 

 

For that matter, is it worth it to add a fourth slot to Stamina and do both (3 End Mod plus the proc)?

 

With SOs, it's roughly a coin toss, IIRC. With IOs, you want 2 End Mod IOs of the highest level you can use, plus the proc. The diminishing returns from ED means 2 level 50 IOs is almost as good as 3 SOs, and going to 3 IOs doesn't benefit you that much.

Fourth slot is generally not worth it unless you're desperate for more End.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Mack008 said:

So here's the question:  If I have three slots in Stamina, is it better to:

-- Slot 3 End Mods, or

-- Slot 2 End Mods, and the put a Perf Shifter Proc in the third? 

 

For that matter, is it worth it to add a fourth slot to Stamina and do both (3 End Mod plus the proc)?

 

If you slot 1 panacea and 2 or 3 performance shifter procs somewhere somehow, you will have to work hard to have end problems at that point (and you won't even need to 2 slot stamina at that point) - especially if you pick an incarnate alpha like agility or cardiac.

 

Disclaimer - unless you are running anything /Storm then do all the above and pick ageless core destiny

Edited February 16, 2021 by Infinitum

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, Mack008 said:

-- Slot 3 End Mods, or

-- Slot 2 End Mods, and the put a Perf Shifter Proc in the third? 

 

For that matter, is it worth it to add a fourth slot to Stamina and do both (3 End Mod plus the proc)?

 

It seems it works best to go with SO/IO End Mod in the first 3 Stamina slots (the chance for +End doesn't seem to keep up with an SO/IO End Mod in the first three slots)

 

I've shifted my use of Performance Shifter : Chance for + End to powers other than Stamina for the most part.

Performance Shifter : Chance for + End is great for Electric Power sets as a large number of powers can use them. Is it better than putting an End Reduc in the power instead? I haven't tested that. But powers with minor damage and high recharge usually have low end expenditures and the Performance Shifter : Chance for + End generates the same amount of end regardless of where it's slotted.

 

When I do put Performance Shifter : Chance for + End in Stamina, I don't put it in until at least the 4th slot.

 

Performance Shifter : Chance for + End :      "..This effect will trigger roughly 1.5 times per minutes"

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by UltraAlt

[Bopper]

13 hours ago, Mack008 said:

Check my math here...

 

Supposed I toss the Performance Shifter proc (+End) in an auto power, such as Stamina.  At 1.5 PPM, it has a 25% chance to go off ever 10 seconds.  When it does, it gives +10% Endurance.

So that works out to (on average) +2.5% End every 10 seconds ( or +0.25% End per second).

 

Checking one of my characters, Thunderstrike's set gives +2% to Recovery which works out to 0.03% End/sec.

 

Am I missing something?  Is the Performance Shifter proc really 10x better than Thunderstrike's bonus?

It's easiest to look at the math in the form of endurance per minute. In the case of Performance Shifter slotted in Stamina, it will after 1.5 procs per minute and 10% endurance per proc for an average of 15 endurance per minute.

 

Recovery translates to endurance per second (at least when you do the math it works out that way). So 2% recovery is equivalent to 2% endurance per minute. So yes, Performance Shifter is WAY BETTER.

 

In regards to slotting Stamina, think of it like this: Stamina is base 25% recovery (25 endurance per second). Slotting Performance Shifter is equivalent to slotting a 60% enhancement (15 end/sec divided by 25 end/sec = 0.60). So you should always slot the PS proc even if you one slot stamina. Keep in mind, a proc is random, so you might be willing to prefer lesser performance over the long run for the reliability of guaranteed recovery. So if you were to 1-slot stamina, use a +5 IO for 53% enhancement.

[Mack008]

All, thanks for the responses.  My immediate thought was for my 26 Dark/Dark Brute who's struggling with all the toggles.  But this is definitely applicable to all my other 'toons as well.

[Sailboat]

These days I generally put 1 generic End Mod (and boost it to +5  when I can), 1 attuned Perf Shifter End Mod, and 1 attuned Perf Shifter proc.  I don't think attuning the proc makes any material difference to its performance, but it lets me get the 2-piece bonus (+7%) movement speed) at all levels.

[ForeverLaxx]

When slotting for recovery, keep this in mind:

 

• Panacea Proc > Performance Shifter Proc = Miracle Unique > 50 Standard IO > Numina Unique = Standard SO

 

Also, it's important to know that the Shifter Proc and Panacea Proc are, obviously, procs that grant you endurance and don't work like a +recovery boost. Yes, you can think of them over time as bonus recovery, and that hierarchy above is made with that in mind, but because of their "infusion of endurance" nature, you can use them to recover endurance even in situations where you've been hit with -recovery or other end drains, such as against Sappers. It may just be enough to keep your toggles active, but it's better than being stuck at 0 with no armors.

 

If you're trying to be frugal with slots and aren't looking at set bonuses yet, it's a good idea to 2-slot Health and 1-slot Stamina. Use both slots in Health for the Panacea Proc and Miracle Unique, and use the base slot in Stamina for the Performance Shifter Proc. This gives you more effective recovery than a traditional 3-slot Stamina and even saves you a slot. If you want another slot, the Numina Unique is technically a smidge better than a Standard SO (or 25-30 Standard IO) but not enough to worry about. You can instead use another slot in Stamina for a Standard IO that's at least SO-level in strength, or put in the End Mod set piece from Performance Shifter for a "free" movement speed set bonus.

 

One minor wrinkle that adjusts where the Standard IO/SO ends up is the power in question. The guideline is in reference to Stamina as everyone gets that power, but if you have other auto/toggle recovery like the Blaster sustain powers, Quick Recovery, or Physical Perfection, the value of a Standard IO/SO can go up or down depending on the base bonus of the power. Stamina and Quick Recovery are close enough in strength that the general rule more or less holds out. Physical Perfection, however, is very weak in comparison and it's never worth slotting End Mod into it if you haven't put a Numina Unique somewhere first. The Blaster sustain powers, if they're still set to 50% additional recovery, are strong enough to cause a Standard IO/SO to outperform even the Performance Shifter Proc.

Edited February 16, 2021 by ForeverLaxx

[Doomguide2005]

     And unless I'm mistaken part of the reason folks up thread said to get the +endurance accolades and set bonuses for +endurance is because set bonuses for recovery and the proc operate as a percentage of your max endurance, more end equals more recovery.

     Also keep in mind Mids doesn't, as a default setting, tell you your end consumption while including your click powers.  This normally means the big consumer of endurance, your click attacks isn't displayed in the totals.  IIRC you can mouse over an individual power to see its use over time and again, if old memories serve me, figure out how much endurance your attack chain(s) use from there.

    That's more math than I typically want to do so I look at my net recovery with various rates indicating to me how badly I need to adjust play style or work on the build to meet requirements.  Others look at consumption while others just keep making changes till it works for them.

     

 

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Panacea Proc > Performance Shifter Proc = Miracle Unique > 50 Standard IO > Numina Unique = Standard SO

A lot of good info in your write-up. I wanted to correct one thing and add some context to another.

 

Stamina has a base of 25%, so Numina's 10% recovery is equivalent to a 40% enhancement. For that reason, you should say Numina > Standard SO. One way to treat these is to look at their equivalent added recovery and calculate their equivalent enhancement value:
Panacea = +22.5% recovery (equivalent to 90% enhancement in stamina)

Performance Shifter proc = +15% recovery (eq. 60% enhancement)

Miracle = +15% recovery (eq. 60%)

+5 Level 50 IO = +13.25% recovery (53% before E.D.)

Level 50 IO = +10.6% recovery (42.4% before E.D.)

Numina = +10% recovery (eq. 40%)

Standard SO = +8.33% recovery (33.3% before E.D.)

 

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Physical Perfection, however, is very weak in comparison and it's never worth slotting End Mod into it if you haven't put a Numina Unique somewhere first

This is a perfect power to put your procs in as it is certainly weak (it's a half-Stamina + half-Health power). However, procs can only proc if the power isn't grayed out. So if you exemplar more than 5 levels below the level at which you selected PP, you will lose those procs. Just something to keep in mind when considerring slotting PP with uniques (less worried with Performance Shifter since it's not unique).

Edited February 16, 2021 by Bopper

[ForeverLaxx]

@Bopper

 

I just tend to put Numina and an SO at the same level because, in the end, an extra 1.67 endurance gained per minute isn't going to matter that much. The cost of the Numina IO is more than a generic IO, and I find more personal value in spending that slot in Stamina to get a movement bonus with Performance Shifter than putting it in health for less than 2 endurance gained over the alternative.

 

Still, it's worth being as accurate as possible.

Edited February 16, 2021 by ForeverLaxx

[Crysis]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:50 PM, Infinitum said:

Disclaimer - unless you are running anything /Storm then do all the above and pick ageless core destiny

And if anything/Storm, also pick up the Recovery buff from P2W.  And the Recovery shot temp power.  And use Base Empowerment for Recovery.  And carry blues.  And only team with /Kins or anyone else who can buff your END.