General Feedback: Issue 27, Page 2

[arthurh35353]

17 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

If you’re a defender or a corrupter then you should have teammates to deal with that for you.

We actually had a pretty good tank on our team, but with the way that Freakshow throw out mezzing and the high numbers, we were still getting hammered. Being able to get a temporary mezz protection kept it from being a tough experience to a tolerable experience. It's not very realistic to expect your tank to obliviate all mezzes being thrown out.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, arthurh35353 said:

We actually had a pretty good tank on our team, but with the way that Freakshow throw out mezzing and the high numbers, we were still getting hammered. Being able to get a temporary mezz protection kept it from being a tough experience to a tolerable experience. It's not very realistic to expect your tank to obliviate all mezzes being thrown out.

Didn’t you say you had a stormy on the team? Then you should have been protected from stuns and sleeps.

 

If the stormy chose not to take or declined to use O2 boost that is not a design problem but a player choice.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Wavicle

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

Characters who rely on toggled debuff/control mitigation are screwed by a 0.01s mez, no better than if they were chain mezzed, since those toggles have recharge times and animation times.  Radiation Infection adds exactly 0% survivability when it's shut off by a momentary Sleep, for instance, and continues to add 0% for as long as it's recharging and until the animation for activating it has been completed (at which point, some twat nozzle minion Stuns or Sleeps the character again, shutting off RI again, rinse, repeat).

 

 

Fair enough, and why I'd also say the idea of making "offensive" toggles suppress instead of detoggling (like defensive toggles work now) is a good one.

 

Even without that though, I've played rad support before as I said, and AM's significant mez resistance did make a noticeable difference in my surviving mezzes even though it would drop RI and choking cloud.  Things did get more dangerous, but it definitely did cut down on mez deaths and mez locks compared to some other "squishies" of other sets that I'd played.  I have to clarify I'm not talking solo +4/x8 type content as I don't tend to play that way very often.  In more extreme content shorter mezzes probably aren't as helpful as you can get overwhelmed very quickly.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Riverdusk

[arthurh35353]

15 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Didn’t you say you had a stormy on the team? Then you should have been protected from stuns and sleeps.

 

If the stormy chose not to take or declined to use O2 boost that is not a design problem but a player choice.

I'm not going to be that person telling a person to "O2 me!" Heck, I can't even expect for sure they will have it for sure. 😞

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

While I do agree that people shouldn't try to speak for other people, unless they're employed in an official capacity to do so, I'd like to point out that a developer did say this:

 

"A single power should not be able to bridge a gap that results in entire parts of the game being obviated."

 

So while I think he certainly could have worded his post better, it's safe to say that the developers do, in fact, intend for some classes to get mezzed.

 

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I’m not speaking for them... only reiterating things they’ve stated themselves over and over and over..

 

The devs are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves, and will do so when they feel it is necessary.  White knighting for them does not help the discussion at all.

On the point, claiming that "entire parts of the game" should not be "obviated," does not equate to "some classes are supposed to get mezzed."  I have not seen where they have made this a class-based discussion; it's always been a general mechanics-based discussion.  If they have, don't bother to point it out.  Let them do it for themselves.

If you want to post a link or quote back to something specific a dev has said, without your own commentary or editorial, fine, that's being helpful.  But restating and reinterpreting things into your own words adds your own spin, and then it's no longer actually something a dev has stated.  That's where it becomes "speaking for the devs," and it can be seen as an attempt to silence others by implying authority you don't have.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Blackbird71

[Wavicle]

11 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I'm not going to be that person telling a person to "O2 me!" Heck, I can't even expect for sure they will have it for sure. 😞

No and I wouldn’t suggest that you do that. I’m saying that the storm player should notice that you’re getting mezzed and throw 02 without being asked for it. That’s what I do when I’m playing on my storm defender. To each their own I guess.

[Blackbird71]

Just now, Wavicle said:

No and I wouldn’t suggest that you do that. I’m saying that the storm player should notice that you’re getting mezzed and throw 02 without being asked for it. That’s what I do when I’m playing on my storm defender. To each their own I guess.

Maybe it's just me, but in the chaotic furball of group play, I often have a hard time noticing who is being affected by what.  It's all I can manage to do to keep an eye on health bars.

[arthurh35353]

5 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Maybe it's just me, but in the chaotic furball of group play, I often have a hard time noticing who is being affected by what.  It's all I can manage to do to keep an eye on health bars.

And not everyone knows every AT and powerset. I hope nobody ever expected my dark dark defender to protect against mezz (excepting fear, sometimes?)

[Wavicle]

Just now, arthurh35353 said:

And not everyone knows every AT and powerset. I hope nobody ever expected my dark dark defender to protect against mezz (excepting fear, sometimes?)

But your dark dark defender is providing insane amounts of -to hit so people should not be getting mezzed very much at all.

[arthurh35353]

Just now, Wavicle said:

But your dark dark defender is providing insane amounts of -to hit so people should not be getting mezzed very much at all.

Er, not when I'm mezzed. And when I get mezzed so often, I don't bother to throw out my Darkest Night any more. Fear is usually my bigger mitigator.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

We actually had a pretty good tank on our team, but with the way that Freakshow throw out mezzing and the high numbers, we were still getting hammered.

My main is an Invuln/EM Tanker. Was also my main on the Freedom server going back to 2007 or so.

 

If your tank isn't holding agro and keeping the squishies from getting mezzed then either - 1) no, your tank isn't any good or - 2) someone's pulling more enemies in and the tank is over the cap and can't hold all of the aggro.

 

Either way, someone's screwing up.

 

If you have a decent tank, and teammates aren't deliberately drawing excess aggro, there's exactly zero reason that your squishy should ever get mezzed.

[arcane]

46 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

 

The devs are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves, and will do so when they feel it is necessary.  White knighting for them does not help the discussion at all.

On the point, claiming that "entire parts of the game" should not be "obviated," does not equate to "some classes are supposed to get mezzed."  I have not seen where they have made this a class-based discussion; it's always been a general mechanics-based discussion.  If they have, don't bother to point it out.  Let them do it for themselves.

If you want to post a link or quote back to something specific a dev has said, without your own commentary or editorial, fine, that's being helpful.  But restating and reinterpreting things into your own words adds your own spin, and then it's no longer actually something a dev has stated.  That's where it becomes "speaking for the devs," and it can be seen as an attempt to silence others by implying authority you don't have.

I think rephrasing repeated dev statements are, at the least, more helpful than (1) continually suggesting ideas that run contrary to repeated statements and (2) this condescending lecture I’ve just quoted. Maybe let’s stop acknowledging each other from here if that’s how it’s going to be.

[ForeverLaxx]

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

If you’re a mastermind then your pets should be able to handle that for you. Direct them to attack the mezzing mob first.

 

If you’re a controller then you should lock the missing mob down.

 

If you’re a defender or a corrupter then you should have teammates to deal with that for you.

Seems pretty silly that only a small selection of powersets are being forced to team to "deal with mez", and that, for some reason, that's how everyone believes it must be or the game explodes. Nevermind the fact that FF, Sonic Dispersion, Trick Arrow, and Electrical Affinity have ways to "obviate" the entire Mez problem despite being Defender/Corruptor powersets. Masterminds have pets to get around being Mezzed, Controllers slap things with Mez first to avoid it, Dominators can Mez first or use Domination to ignore it, Blasters have their T1/T2 Blasts and T1 Secondary to fight back when mezzed, Sentinels never have to deal with it, Tankers never have to deal with it, Scrappers never have to deal with it, Stalkers never have to deal with, Brutes never have to deal with it...

 

but some Defenders/Corruptors must have allies attached to their hip? Because it's how it "always was"? Seems to me that more ATs have been offered solutions over the years, or outright changes to their design, in order to make Mez less of a death sentence than it used to be. So why are some Defenders/Corruptors left behind?

[Glacier Peak]

9 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Seems pretty silly that only a small selection of powersets are being forced to team to "deal with mez", and that, for some reason, that's how everyone believes it must be or the game explodes. Nevermind the fact that FF, Sonic Dispersion, Trick Arrow, and Electrical Affinity have ways to "obviate" the entire Mez problem despite being Defender/Corruptor powersets. Masterminds have pets to get around being Mezzed, Controllers slap things with Mez first to avoid it, Dominators can Mez first or use Domination to ignore it, Blasters have their T1/T2 Blasts and T1 Secondary to fight back when mezzed, Sentinels never have to deal with it, Tankers never have to deal with it, Scrappers never have to deal with it, Stalkers never have to deal with, Brutes never have to deal with it...

 

but some Defenders/Corruptors must have allies attached to their hip? Because it's how it "always was"? Seems to me that more ATs have been offered solutions over the years, or outright changes to their design, in order to make Mez less of a death sentence than it used to be. So why are some Defenders/Corruptors left behind?

I would refer to my earlier post, where my main Ice/Cold Corruptor rarely experiences any concern whatsoever for mez effects, and when it does occur it is comically easy to obviate 😁. So again, 'playstyles' are the biggest factor in experiencing mez to a subjectively unacceptable degree, not necessarily the AT or powerset combo.

[PeregrineFalcon]

15 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

So why are some Defenders/Corruptors left behind?

Why even have mez in the game if all characters are immune to it?

 

I agree that mez is handled poorly in this game, but that's something that the developers should have fixed back in 2005. I don't know if it's something that the current developers can even address and still end up with a game that resembles City of Heroes.

[arthurh35353]

10 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Why even have mez in the game if all characters are immune to it?

 

I agree that mez is handled poorly in this game, but that's something that the developers should have fixed back in 2005. I don't know if it's something that the current developers can even address and still end up with a game that resembles City of Heroes.

You are stating an absolute protection, when +4 protection didn't even give us full protection during the Terra Volta trial. It just made it so we both weren't held for super lengths of time and weren't locked down to death. And I think we still had a few random deaths, which we dealt with.

[Blackbird71]

10 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Why even have mez in the game if all characters are immune to it?

 

I agree that mez is handled poorly in this game, but that's something that the developers should have fixed back in 2005. I don't know if it's something that the current developers can even address and still end up with a game that resembles City of Heroes.

 

Why have it in the game if it only affects a small subset of characters?

Better yet, when most characters have means of dealing with it, why reduce the effectiveness of one option used by less than 5% of characters to bring them on a par with everyone else?

("less than 5%" comes from the HC team's indication that ~5% of characters take the Sorcery pool, and the assumption that not everyone who takes the Sorcery pool goes deep enough into it for RoP)

[ForeverLaxx]

26 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

So again, 'playstyles' are the biggest factor in experiencing mez

I personally don't have much of a problem with Mez specifically because of how I play. I just don't agree that Defenders/Corruptors are required to team as a design goal to get around it when no one else has to (and even some powersets within those ATs don't have to).

Edited April 12, 2021 by ForeverLaxx
clarity

[GM Impervium]

Hey all!

So the whole "Does Mez belong in the game/what function should it have/who should it affect" convo is a fun and all, and while I know it's tangentially related to the use of RoP, how about we take it somewhere else (or even better, just drop it for now) and allow this thread to serve it's purpose for general Page 2 feedback?

Thanks!

[Sodd]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:55 AM, Jimmy said:

I can't reproduce this. What specifically is triggering the suppression for you?

 

Keep in mind that CC will suppress the effects of most toggles entirely, including Stealth.

After reading that you can't reproduce, I did some testing.

 

I created a new toon and duplicated the live build.  This new toon was not having the suppression issue.

 

I then went to the problematic toon re-verified the enhancements were correct and it was still having the issue.

 

I then unslotted the enhancements from stealth and reslotted them, same issue.

 

I then unslotted all the enhancements from all powers and reslotted them.  Now the DEF is reporting correctly.

 

No idea as to why.

[UberGuy]

13 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

I thought SS actually gave a -Threat buff, not actual stealth?

 

In other words, they see you, but don't bother attacking. But maybe I'm wrong =/

 

It does both.

[laudwic]

On 4/12/2021 at 4:37 PM, Blackbird71 said:

Maybe it's just me, but in the chaotic furball of group play, I often have a hard time noticing who is being affected by what.  It's all I can manage to do to keep an eye on health bars.

 

Yow know, instead of being able to show every effect currently on your teammate, such as they are running tough and weave, by showing a bunch of small icons, it may be a heck of a lot better to show just: held, stunned, immobilized, confused, ect.

[Apparition]

20 minutes ago, laudwic said:

 

Yow know, instead of being able to show every effect currently on your teammate, such as they are running tough and weave, by showing a bunch of small icons, it may be a heck of a lot better to show just: held, stunned, immobilized, confused, ect.

 

 

You also need to see if the teammate is using an Incarnate Alpha (for the Apex TF and Tin Mage TF), and you also need to see if the teammate is using an Incarnate Interface and what kind, so showing mez status alone wouldn't work.

[Blackbird71]

5 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

 

You also need to see if the teammate is using an Incarnate Alpha (for the Apex TF and Tin Mage TF), and you also need to see if the teammate is using an Incarnate Interface and what kind, so showing mez status alone wouldn't work.

 

Or you could, you know, ask?

Particularly since that's not something that needs to be monitored actively throughout the mission/TF, there's no real need for it to be shown among active effects.  They either have it slotted or they don't.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Blackbird71

[Apparition]

20 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

Or you could, you know, ask?

Particularly since that's not something that needs to be monitored actively throughout the mission/TF, there's no real need for it to be shown among active effects.  They either have it slotted or they don't.

 

Yes, it is.  Interface effects only stack up to four times, so having more than four of the same Interface type on a team is a waste.  Being able to see what Interface abilities your teammates are using is helpful, so you can switch to a different one if need be.  It would also let you see if your teammate(s) switched Interface abilities as everyone should at least have two.  All with a quick glance without having to take the time to ask.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Apparition