Dark/Dark...Defender, Corruptor, Controller, or Dominator

[Snarky]

Sizing up a character for my next big huge epic project.  I am seriously considering running a squishy for a main.  (thankfully e-mail can carry Rez inspirations...) 

 

I want to go Dark/Dark.  I have played a Dom once in a while, and taken a Dark/Dark to 30.  My first serious Corruptor was actually just a month or two ago.  I may never have rolled and definitely have not played a Controller or Defender.

 

I will want to go Dark/Dark/Dark or Dark/Dark/Soul.  

 

I want the character to be useful at level 50 TFs and Incarnate Trials.  

 

Where do I go from here oh good and gentle town folk of locker C-18?

[oedipus_tex]

Each of these is a pretty wildly different experience so its hard to recommend just one. Let's assume for the sake of argument you were limited though.

 

I'll start by mostly ruling out the Controller. It's not bad. Not at all. In fact Dark/Dark Controller has a ton going for it. Dark Affinity on Controllers is a better set, in some ways, than it is on Defenders and Corruptors. Your independence, though, is not going to be what you are accustomed to. I don't want to make it sound like this build always has to team because that isn't true. This character is very hard to kill in a lot of content. Where it's likely to have issues is generating enough damage to kill bosses quickly enough to feel like you're moving forward. It's doable but it's usually slow. So if I had to pick just one to main, this wouldn't be it. I like my independence.

 

In contrast the Corruptor and Defender are both relatively high damage and high utility characters. Dark Blast is an acquired taste as a set in my experience, a bit lower damage than other sets. But it has an Immobilize, which is unusual for a Blast set and very useful. Blackstar is a disgustingly huge debuff. With these classes you're a force multiplier like the Controller albeit with a greater range of soloability. There are arguments that one or the other is better. In these disagreements I usually tend to favor the Defender for their better secondary effects but this one is really up to you. 

 

The Defender/Corruptor versions of the Dark APP are extremely attractive. An established weakness of Dark Miasma is lack of mezz protection but these days this is solvable using a number of methods and no longer the concern it once was. If you are new to squishies I'd say one of these two is your bet. 

 

Dark/Dark Dominator is a very strong character that may or may not be for you. The main attraction here is Dominators are normally an archetype that has to scrounge to cover a huge amount of ground and ends up lagging Defenses. Dark Control offers -ToHit, which Dominators normally don't get much of. This translates into much needed survivability with fewer sacrifices. Dark/Dark specifically has a Power Boost-like power to magnify the -ToHit in the powers. The real gem is here is Shadow Field, which unehnanced provides you -15% ToHit, same as a Controller. This -ToHit is autohit and roughly doubled with Power Boost. On top of this Dark Assault has a self heal, which only two other Dominator secondaries get. This heal is self only and not even close to bringing you to the survivability of a Controller/Defender/Corruptor between their castable heal and pet, it's just another case of most comparable Dominator sets get nothing, and small rewards being riches.

 

The downside of the Dominator is even if its a very good Dominator its still a Dominator; that is, not a multiplier like the three above unless you dip into pools like APP Ice. Even being strong for a Dominator, you are one of the weakest links on iTrials and some difficult AV battles, because your damage is point blank, and often fails versus AVs (the -ToHit and the controls). Of all the ways a team is likely to fail a Task Force or iTrial a Dominator usually has few solutions compared to other archetypes. It is true that of the Control sets Dark Control is one of the less likely sets to fail you solo though, because of the Confuse.... this is itself is a very specific kind of play style and strategy you'd have to think about whether you want to mess with. So what I'm saying here is if you decided you wanted to main a Dominator, and wanted to pick one of the best Dominators possible, Dark/Dark would be a go. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Gulbasaur]

I got a dark/dark corruptor. Not my favourite, but it certainly works. If something like kin/sonic is your "dps go brr" combo, dark/dark is its "everyone is invincible" cousin. The heal is massive, you have an AoE rez (if you have good timing, you can use it to self-rez and bounce back up) and you debuff ToHit so hard that you rarely need to use either. 

 

Dark's ToHit debuffs make it very good at soloing - things just don't hit you very often, which means things like mezzes are less of an issue. You can be fairly blasé about defensive skills. Defenders actually get a damage buff when soloing, meaning that if you plan to solo you could do a lot worse. 

 

The cones will either bother you or they won't. There's no real synergy between the cones so stand back a bit and hope for the best. 

 

Dark Servant is a bit of an odd power for a support set, but it's a useful one. It more or less duplicates a lot of your support/debuff powers, so you basically get all of the good stuff twice. 

 

One thing to note is that at endgame, -ToHit is of limited use because of the obsession with the defence cap and the sheer number of ways of boosting defence. In those cases, you'll mostly be applying -RES, -DMG and -regen and keeping the heals pumping out, with the occasional group resurrection. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Gulbasaur

[Wobegone]

I love my Dark/Dark/Dark Defender.  She's not only my favorite character for high level content, she's also my badger which means I'm comfortable soloing lower level content.  My one caveat to that is I sometimes wish I'd made her a Dark/Fire/Dark Defender.  In fact I'm going to make that combo at some point.  Dark Defenders are wonderful characters for nearly all content.  Fear is extremely powerful, comes early, and is capable of neutralizing an entire spawn, especially at high levels when your defense is high(my Defender is soft capped vs all positional).  Combine that with a strong heal, -resistance, and -regen, and they're also perfect against hard targets.

 

i like my Dark/Dark Controller, but he's only level 24 right now.  He's great for teams but is rather terrible solo....simply not enough damage yet.  

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Ignatz the Insane

[Snarky]

Thank you for the great replies!  This is helping a lot.

 

I am heavily leaning toward Defender or Corruptor.  As a Redsider I am drawn to Corruptor.  But I want to make the pick that is most beneficial to Team/League.  I heard Corruptor Tar Patch received an "adjustment"  These are the exact same sets but reversed.  Due to the Scaling and AT how different are they?

[merrypessimist]

You really can't go wrong either way.  I'd honestly suggest just doing a coin toss and assigning 'fender to heads and corr to tails.

[oedipus_tex]

In a league specifically Defender > Corruptor in most conceivable situations. It's only the with the really buffy sets like Empathy, Force Field etc where the Corruptor's extra Scourge damage might be more useful because the extra heal numbers don't translate necessarily into more success.

 

On an 8-man it's a tougher call.

 

FWIW I think Corruptors kind of got the short end of the stick with damage procs and the Defender inherent buff, These two archetypes used to be much different from each other and are a bit uncomfortably similar for now. Changes to damage procs could make Corruptors a more attractive option. 

[MTeague]

I went with Corruptor because I wasn't sure if I'd want both Dark Blast AND Gloom, and of the two, Gloom looked better to me. 

Whereas in Dark Miasma, there was no question in my mind I was taking both Tar Patch and Twilight Grasp. 

 

I did had some issues soloing him through various arcs.  At very low levels, he simply didn't have enough To-Hit debuff to make enough difference, and I'd levelled him before you could use SO's right out of the box at lvl 1, so acc/dam weren't super great at low levels, either.  And I ran him on +2x2 with Bosses, so, some of that was on me being arrogant/overconfident during the levellling phase before his powers build up enough and he amassed enough set bonuses. (Hubris never hurt anyone, right?  It's a buff I hear....)

 

He matured in the 20's, as his attuned IO's reached SO levels,  and slotting started to reach optimal levels for his bread-and-butter. 

[Snarky]

46 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I went with Corruptor because I wasn't sure if I'd want both Dark Blast AND Gloom, and of the two, Gloom looked better to me. 

Whereas in Dark Miasma, there was no question in my mind I was taking both Tar Patch and Twilight Grasp. 

 

while i will be in leagues slightly more often than teams it is almost 50/50.  Yet i was leaning to Defender...try something new.  i am such a grumpy old set in my ways redsider lol.   But I really have not run corruptors much...and this line of reasoning saves me an all important power pick!  Ta Dah!  Thank you.  Now I am leaning hard toward Corruptor!  

 

Redside: Best Side.

[Li_Sensei]

I realised my Dark/Dark/Dark Offender may be a little strong when, after just throwing IO's that looked 'Eh, good enough' into the slots I'd already put into the powers for normal SO slotting, that he was solo chewing through +2/x5 spawns.

 

On a Defender.

 

WIth no mez protection at the time...

 

<blink> <blink>

 

It was pretty straightforward if not the 'current meta' of "Charge in and blow everything's face off".

1) Find a corner near a spawn.

2) Drop Darkest Night on a mob at the back of the spawn

3) Retreat round the corner.

4) Drop Tar Patch on the corner.

5) Wait for the mobs to bunch up courtesy of movement slow

6) Hit them with Fearsome Stare to stack even more -tohit on them.

7) Start going nuts with your AoE's and single target attack chain as appropriate.

 

(Also known in ye olde days as 'a corner pull' or 'debuff anchor pull')

 

By the time you pick up Dark Servant, Blackstar and Soul Drain, things just get faster.  (and the mobs get more helpless because of the moderately insane amount of debuff a Defender's Dark Servant brings)

 

Oh, and if you buy only two IO's on a dark/dark/dark defender?  I'd suggest grabbing the two Defender ATO procs, and dropping them into Tenbrous Tentacles and Night Fall.  Regular proccing of absorb and heal for yourself and things around you?  Yes please.

 

The same toon absolutely works on a team.  Just don't expect to get all the plaudits like a Tanker surviving armageddon or Blaster flattening the spawn in 3 powers.  So long as you're playing to your strengths, the rest of the team won't realise how much of an impact you were making until you leave <grin>  (even just spamming Fearsome Stare will spread enough -tohit around combined with the inherent damage mitigation of cowering mobs that you'll significantly reduce the damage taken by the team.)

 

Now admittedly, this was a reincarnation of my Dark/Dark/Dark Offender from live, same name, same costume (from the files I'd saved from live), but built in my usual, "OK, so what looks shiniest this time I'm at the trainer?" fashion.  This means I was already *fully* familiar with all the powers, how they worked and which ones I considered utter dross (Dark Pit, Black Hole and Torrent? I'm looking at you...  But make up your own mind, for me and my play style they're dross, for you they may not be.)

 

You will have to get good at positioning yourself to make good use of cones though, as three of what I consider to be the lynchpins of the powerset combination are cones and they don't all match in angle/range.

 

Make of this rambling what you will.  If it helps then all well and good, if not then do your own thing.  That's the whole point of this game IMO.

[EmmySky]

Chiming in with agreement on the super uber power that is dark/dark/dark (/dark) defenders.  Mine is fully T4'd and has a specialty build from a genius friend, and she thinks she's a tank.  Which she kinda is.  Embrace the dark side!

[Li_Sensei]

On the subject of Corruptor vs Defender for Dark Blast or Gloom, I've never regretted having Dark Blast on mine.

 

My single target attack chain is basically Dark Blast, Gloom and Moonbeam slotted in around my Dark Miasma powers, and that's enough, as I'm usually also using Tenebrous to hold mobs in place in the range of Darkest Night and Tar Patch.  Hence why I don't like Torrent, why would I want to knock mobs OUT of my debuffs?

 

And Dark Blast recharges fast enough that even if nothing else is back up, it'll almost certainly be charged and it's a) another chunk of damage thrown out and b) EVEN MORE -tohit stacked on the recipient.

 

And just to temper expectations a little, before you get something like T3 Clarion perma mez protection, then all it takes to ruin your day is a single (5% chance) lucky hit from a mez.  Especially early on, you'll be relying on the -tohit and -damage from Darkest Night to survive, and if that drops you can be in trouble.  Dark/Dark/whatever is not instant god mode, it'll take practice and investment to get to wherever you want to get it.  I'd REALLY suggest not feeding whatever toon you decide on into an AE mill.  Play the toon, get used to the quirks.  Maybe I'm stupid, but it takes me time and practice to learn how to play a toon, I'm assuming it's similar for others, too.

[Snarky]

30 minutes ago, Li_Sensei said:

I realised my Dark/Dark/Dark Offender may be a little strong when, after just throwing IO's that looked 'Eh, good enough' into the slots I'd already put into the powers for normal SO slotting, that he was solo chewing through +2/x5 spawns.

 

On a Defender.

 

 

(Also known in ye olde days as 'a corner pull' or 'debuff anchor pull')

 

 

You will have to get good at positioning yourself to make good use of cones though, as three of what I consider to be the lynchpins of the powerset combination are cones and they don't all match in angle/range.

 

Make of this rambling what you will.  If it helps then all well and good, if not then do your own thing.  That's the whole point of this game IMO.

Really appreciate the insight.  These bits really stood out to me.  Defender?  Wow!!!  I have decided to make attempts with Corruptor and Defender and see what I like / dislike.  Really nice to know Offender is an option.

 

A corner pull!  Damn, I miss strategy lol.  Thanks for the tip for solo.

 

Cone?  Fuggedaboutit.  My favorite Blaster is a Dark/Mental/Soul  5 cones.  Joust in for Drain Psyche and PBAoE madness.  Then zip out or up to Cone the Zone.  /i only switch to ST for AV

 

Lot of good info. Thanks for rambling.

[Snarky]

24 minutes ago, Li_Sensei said:

And just to temper expectations a little, before you get something like T3 Clarion perma mez protection, then all it takes to ruin your day is a single (5% chance) lucky hit from a mez.  Especially early on, you'll be relying on the -tohit and -damage from Darkest Night to survive, and if that drops you can be in trouble.  Dark/Dark/whatever is not instant god mode, it'll take practice and investment to get to wherever you want to get it.  I'd REALLY suggest not feeding whatever toon you decide on into an AE mill.  Play the toon, get used to the quirks.  Maybe I'm stupid, but it takes me time and practice to learn how to play a toon, I'm assuming it's similar for others, too.

Yeah, the idea of a Dark/Dark Corruptor has been percolating in my head for a while.  Had a level 1 parked in Atlas.  I took my alt account and farmed him to 20 last night.  Will throw some basic slotting on that and a few I/Os and dance through Posi 1/2, Synapse, etc.  anything Redside I can get (preferably all TFs done in level order)  THis is how I start to train/learn on any new toon. Even Brutes if I have not run the powersets previously.  I love TFs, and there is no better lab for learning to play a character imo.

[Tiger Shadow]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

Cone?  Fuggedaboutit.  My favorite Blaster is a Dark/Mental/Soul  5 cones.  Joust in for Drain Psyche and PBAoE madness.  Then zip out or up to Cone the Zone.  /i only switch to ST for AV

 

Y'know, I keep meaning to set up a Combat Teleport macro to move me back 20 or 30 just for cones, but I keep getting distracted.

[catsi563]

On 4/14/2021 at 8:08 AM, Snarky said:

Thank you for the great replies!  This is helping a lot.

 

I am heavily leaning toward Defender or Corruptor.  As a Redsider I am drawn to Corruptor.  But I want to make the pick that is most beneficial to Team/League.  I heard Corruptor Tar Patch received an "adjustment"  These are the exact same sets but reversed.  Due to the Scaling and AT how different are they?

having run my Panda to D4 status I absolutely endorse Defender as well D4s are very strong and  have some of the best Debuffs in the gane along with the best rez in the game in howling twilight any time you can rez your entire team in one go is a good thing

D3 Controllers are very solid but as someone saif above can be a bit slow on the damage but like the D4s above their Debuffs are insane and they get pets 3 in fact  D3 Controllers can be a one hero army really

[Snarky]

Finally getting around to a Dark Dark Defender.  There are more corners in this game!  My first Defender.  Snark forever!

[TheZag]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:25 PM, Snarky said:

I want to go Dark/Dark

 

On 4/13/2021 at 7:25 PM, Snarky said:

I want the character to be useful at level 50

 

Mastermind.

 

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, TheZag said:

 

 

Mastermind.

 

Are these good at incarnate stuff? With pet levels screwed so far down?

Edited November 16, 2022 by Snarky

[Astralock]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Are these good at incarnate stuff? With pet levels screwed so far down?

 

Honestly, no, not at the moment, outside of BAF trial.  However, Player-1 has stated that they're working on making all henchmen equal level to the Mastermind.  They are fine on 1* and 2* hard modes though.

[Snarky]

5 minutes ago, Astralock said:

 

Honestly, no, not at the moment, outside of BAF trial.  However, Player-1 has stated that they're working on making all henchmen equal level to the Mastermind.  They are fine on 1* and 2* hard modes though.

so they are fixed now or will be soon?

 

why are they fine on 1* or 2*?

[Astralock]

4 minutes ago, Snarky said:

so they are fixed now or will be soon?

 

why are they fine on 1* or 2*?

 

Will be "soon."

 

Because the mobs are usually only +1 or +2.

[TheZag]

From the homecoming wiki -

 

"During Incarnate Trials and within Dark Astoria, Supremacy grants +2 Incarnate Shifts to Minion Henchmen and +1 Incarnate Shift to Lieutenant Henchmen which can be stacked with other Incarnate Abilities which grant Incarnate Shifts."

 

So they are even to the MM level in itrials.  Keeping them on a proper leash is up to you.

 

[JasperStone]

I had a Dark/Dark/Dark on Live and remade her.

Unstoppable.

Enjoy.

[Ironblade]

Go big or go home.

I had a dark/dark/dark on live and his name was Dark Lord Darkness.  🙂