Worst vs the best...

[BjorJlen]

   Greetings everyone. I figured that as I have a little free time on my hands, I might as well ask one of the questions that has been rolling around in my head for a while now (lots of room in there ya know lol), so please forgive me if this has been asked before. Reading many posts here I have noticed that many ask "what is the best... AT, power sets, builds" and whatnot. However I haven't noticed anyone asking what the worst things you can build in game (generally speaking only mind you). So I ask this...

 

   What power set combinations do you consider to be the WORST together and/or the HARDEST to lvl (sands the xp buffs you can purchase) in a solo manner, and why?

 

   As a man who makes concept characters who has altitis, I tend to try out new things from time to time. And I was wondering how different it would be to make the worst character I can make ala powerset combinations, and how difficult it might be to play it solo. In a general sense its easy to pick power sets that mesh well either conceptually or works the best together, but what about the worst ones that you can still get to 50, even though you may want to toss your PC out the window in frustration.

   So I was wondering what all of you fine heroes and villians might think are the worst of the worst, because lets face facts here; sometimes a challenging character that you build that sucks, but you still manage to get to 50 can sometimes be more rewarding then getting a top tier character set there instead. And certainly has more bragging rights then the "flavor of the month" builds lol.

   After all, if you make such a build and get it to 50 and someone comes along and says they got their spines/fire character to 50 and it was so much fun, you could say that you got such and such character no one makes to 50 AND you got all the death badges in HALF the time too. 😁 So let me know what you think good people, and as I always say... keep on keeping on...

 

   Peace...

[Grindingsucks]

Worst?  Probably characters built mostly around pool powers or Petless Masterminds.  Those are theme builds people tend to do on a lark or for a challenge.  Sentinels are also widely regarded as poor performers, though I very much like them, myself.

 

There are very few truly "bad" AT's/Powersets in CoX.  You kind of have to work at it to make a "bad" character, IMO.  This game is really quite easy, once you figure out the basics, so you don't need elite builds, unless you want to tackle AE 801 missions.

 

Others will have very different opinions on this, than myself, of course- so YMMV.

[Gulbasaur]

Some support powersets really don't benefit you solo.

 

Debuff sets tend to solo well. Time, Dark and Rad are excellent solo-friendly sets. Time can tank quite reliably and Rad is historically the "punch above your weight" support set - illusion/rad is still recommended as a "solo anything" set. Dark does good debuffage, a pet that does more debuff and also has a huge heal.

 

If you compare that to a very team-focussed set like Empathy, Sonic or Force Fields, there's a big difference in solo-ability. They can do it, but a lot of their value is in bolstering teammates. Kinetics starts off with a very strong heal and a damage buff/debuff but the mid tiers are focussed on utility or teammate buffs, so a solo kineticist can struggle to level (from experience - my first character was psi/kin before the Defender inherent was a thing). Poison is great against single targets, but the small AoE means that spread-out groups can be really hard to go up against.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Gulbasaur

[BjorJlen]

Very interesting views. 🙂 I was expecting a bit nore specific power set combinations, but very interesting none the less. Does anyone have some specific ideas on set combinations though, because i like a challenge lol.

 

Peace...

[starro]

Back on live I built a scrapper with  kinetic/invulnerability and took all the passive + passive  pool powers.  

 

It was painful but he made it to 30.  Oddly survival in a group fight was ok, but really nothing to do.

[Riverdusk]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:12 AM, BjorJlen said:

 

   After all, if you make such a build and get it to 50 and someone comes along and says they got their spines/fire character to 50 and it was so much fun, you could say that you got such and such character no one makes to 50 AND you got all the death badges in HALF the time too. 😁 So let me know what you think good people, and as I always say... keep on keeping on...

 

   Peace...

 

For that I'd probably just look at the stats the devs have compiled about the most/least played sets and pick something super rare (although from March 2020 so needs an update).  For me personally something like an ice controller leaps to mind as always my first thought.   Probably the least damaging powerset out there?  Although it might have some proc opportunities.  And what do you know, ice control/traps is tied for last place among controller combos.

 

 

[Hardboiled Hero]

Forcefields is the worst set in the game.  It's basically like your character is only playing the game with one powerset.  Not only can you not use the powers on yourself, but your also buffing a stat that most people soft-cap anyway (You know, in case they have to play without a Bubbler in their team on occasion).  They can be fun/good while leveling in a team, but other than that they're completely worthless.

 

  I suppose you combine that with something like Archery and you could get a laughably poor Defender or Corruptor. 

[Grindingsucks]

14 hours ago, Hardboiled Hero said:

Forcefields is the worst set in the game.  It's basically like your character is only playing the game with one powerset.  Not only can you not use the powers on yourself, but your also buffing a stat that most people soft-cap anyway (You know, in case they have to play without a Bubbler in their team on occasion).  They can be fun/good while leveling in a team, but other than that they're completely worthless.

 

  I suppose you combine that with something like Archery and you could get a laughably poor Defender or Corruptor. 

 

I have a different view.  I would say that power creep that has allowed almost every AT to effectively softcap defense, has ruined much of the utility of the force field set. 

 

The same effect can be attributed to the feeling that controllers are essentially superfluous in end-game content.

[BjorJlen]

3 hours ago, Grindingsucks said:

 

I have a different view.  I would say that power creep that has allowed almost every AT to effectively softcap defense, has ruined much of the utility of the force field set. 

 

The same effect can be attributed to the feeling that controllers are essentially superfluous in end-game content.

 

   Ok, this is the first time i have heard that. controllers are essentially superfluous in end-game content??? God i hope not, as i have grown to love controllers a lot nowdays.

 

   And FF/Arch huh? I may just gave to try that combination out @Hardboiled Hero. I can just see my battlecry now... "Society sucks, and I can't win!" lol 😋

[Grindingsucks]

4 hours ago, BjorJlen said:

 

   Ok, this is the first time i have heard that. controllers are essentially superfluous in end-game content??? God i hope not, as i have grown to love controllers a lot nowdays.

 

   And FF/Arch huh? I may just gave to try that combination out @Hardboiled Hero. I can just see my battlecry now... "Society sucks, and I can't win!" lol 😋

 

Well, the thing is, when combat AT's defenses are so high that they almost never get hit and their dps is so high because of dmg bonus from enhancements and high recharge from Hasten +LotG, a team of such characters often melt any opposition before the controllers even get a chance to lock much of anything down.

 

Likewise, buffs are swell but when you're already soft/hard capped on all relevant defenses and resists, what's the real benefit at that point?  Becoming even more unbeatable than you already are, I guess. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

Now, if you just play solo, there's no problem.  Play remains challenging and fun for most any solo character, so long as you keep the notoriety dialed up.

[Hardboiled Hero]

1 hour ago, Grindingsucks said:

Now, if you just play solo, there's no problem.  Play remains challenging and fun for most any solo character, so long as you keep the notoriety dialed up.

 

  which is where the second problem with Bubbles comes up.  Basically, it's unnecessary for most teams, and it's literally unusable for solo play.  Now I could see a team might be specifically designed around having a Bubbler.  I imagine the other characters could some extra dps if they know they don't need to cap the Defenses, but I think that's something that would have to be planned out in advance.

[BjorJlen]

15 minutes ago, Hardboiled Hero said:

 

  which is where the second problem with Bubbles comes up.  Basically, it's unnecessary for most teams, and it's literally unusable for solo play.  Now I could see a team might be specifically designed around having a Bubbler.  I imagine the other characters could some extra dps if they know they don't need to cap the Defenses, but I think that's something that would have to be planned out in advance.

 

   Ok I am a bit confused here. True, I do not have much experience with Force Field, but looking at all the powers in the set, there are only two... two... powers that can only be used on a ally (Deflection Shield and Insulation Shield); the rest can be taken and used by a character and run in solo play quite easily. Thrue, the Arch/FF combination might not be top tier, deal the most damage, be the best for teams, or even fun for some, but from looking at the powers it seems it is at least playable for solo, though challenging. I just might have to play this to find out for myself though (heck I could even name the character Mr Masochistic... and yes I have already saved the name lol)...

 

Peace...

[Grindingsucks]

Well, it's not unusable (I've used it solo, myself), but it is less than desirable.  Personal force field is a fantastic defense power, for example, but you can't attack with it on.  That's darned inconvenient when you're playing alone.  😛

 

To some extent, this is true with most Controllers/Defenders, as these were meant to function as support classes on teams, as opposed to lone-rangering it solo.  When you use a support class for this, you really are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.  With enough determination, you can do it.  But the process and result is not going to be (probably) as satisfying as a dedicated combat AT, unless you're a very patient person.

 

On the other hand, if you are patient and tactical minded, enjoy a challenge, and prefer playing alone, controllers and defenders may be the perfect choice for you.  

[Riverdusk]

I think it is also because FF has just been outclassed by other support sets as well.  I'd rather go with sonic if you want to go around with a status bubble for everyone as that one provides resistance (which is more rare) and also adds to damage (through -res debuffs).  If you just want to pump everyone with defense there is cold or time and once again both add a lot of other useful tools.  If you still want that status bubble and still some defense (usually plenty enough) and with a whole lot of other toys too, there is traps.

[Arcadio]

I don't think archery is really the worst we can come up with. I'd say Ice/FF controller is weaker, there's significant anti-synergy with all the repel/kb against arctic air or ice patch. 

 

On the bright side jack frost will be softcapped pretty easily

[Doomguide2005]

     You want rough to level using power sets?  Try Ice Control/Sonic Resonance solo let me know which year you finish the ride to 50 😜.

Couple things might save you from when I was working on one.  Fitness now inherent (Stamina still 20th when I was playing it) and the other I'm not sure about but Ice Controls proc potential to help with damage.  You'd think Sonic Resonance would help with damage but no, a small number multiplied is still dang small.

     Still I do want to masochistically to try again and see if it's really as horrid as I remember.

 

PS:  This from a player with lots of solo time on Empaths

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[CY13ERPUNK]

i heard that war mace combined with energy aura was strong and pretty

 

but that was obviously a lie 

[FUBARczar]

On 4/20/2021 at 12:58 AM, Hardboiled Hero said:

Forcefields is the worst set in the game.  It's basically like your character is only playing the game with one powerset.  Not only can you not use the powers on yourself, but your also buffing a stat that most people soft-cap anyway (You know, in case they have to play without a Bubbler in their team on occasion).  They can be fun/good while leveling in a team, but other than that they're completely worthless.

 

  I suppose you combine that with something like Archery and you could get a laughably poor Defender or Corruptor. 

lol FF is not the worst, it is actually really flexible and one only need to take a few powers from the primary.  It allows one to put more into the blast set.  Sure it has no debuff, but it comes with Status Protection.  It's a great set to pair with Soul Drain, which can be made perma.  FF allows the user to use soul drain well because of high defenses, and status protection.  Or it can be paired with Beam Rifle so one can still buff players (especially squishies, most of which have no DDR so +def is still helpful), offer status protection to teammates and do good debuffs with your Beam Rifle (-regen, -resist, -def).

 

You just have to know how to leverage what is good in sets.  

[Max Firepower]

On 6/15/2021 at 11:04 PM, CY13ERPUNK said:

i heard that war mace combined with energy aura was strong and pretty

 

but that was obviously a lie 

Yeah, the Invis took away the pretty, so that is half wrong. 😉

[oedipus_tex]

I'm always on the fence about the word "worst" because most things in this game can be made somewhat functional. It's true there are some massive gaps in performance from some sets though.

 

So with that in mind, Ice Control/Electric Assault Dominator has to belong somewhere near the bottom. It's playable in the sense that anything basically is, but this is one character I just couldn't bring myself to spend time on. Arctic Air doesn't Dominate so you're barely even a Dominator even after going perma dom. Electric Assault's secondary effect is totally moot on this combo. Long animation times on the attacks. No recovery, healing, defense, or meaningful debuff. Not a force multiplier on teams. Just a world of "Okay, but why?" 

 

 

RE: Force Field, although I think it needs buffs for general content, it's at the same time undeniable that is a situationally very good set for iTrials. It does require a mindset on the part of the player that are building for that goal and leaning into it as hard as they can, namely with Power Boost to double shield strength. The main strength of Force Field is the ability to blanket an area with +Defense. Players can IO themselves for Defense, but pets can't be IOed, and a huge portion of iTrial damage comes from pets. The ability to re-shield resurrected players very quickly is also not a huge need in general content but does play a big role in iTrials. I'd never turn away a good Bubbler from an iTeam, if they understand what they are doing they may have the single biggest impact on success or failure than anyone else on the league.

 

That's not to say the set doesn't still need love, but it's something.

Edited June 21, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Gwyrddu]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:58 PM, Hardboiled Hero said:

Forcefields is the worst set in the game.  It's basically like your character is only playing the game with one powerset.  Not only can you not use the powers on yourself, but your also buffing a stat that most people soft-cap anyway (You know, in case they have to play without a Bubbler in their team on occasion).  They can be fun/good while leveling in a team, but other than that they're completely worthless.

 

  I suppose you combine that with something like Archery and you could get a laughably poor Defender or Corruptor.

I'm solo-leveling a grav/FF controller and it's a piece of cake. dispersion bubble gives me defense and status protection, containment field allows me to remove the biggest threat from the board and if all that fails personal force usually allows me to escape so I can come back refreshed (but given all my other controls this is rarely needed). In either case, I wish my dp/cold corruptor had the status protection that my controller has. Sure, in the particular situation where everyone is already soft-capped and has a full suite of status protection and is in no real danger and thus no need of your other FF tools, then FF isn't helping the party. But then again neither is a defense set. You still have a whole other set plus whatever powers you pick up to fill in the gap of aiding the party while FF keeps you alive.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Gwyrddu