Strike/Task Force Tutorial

[Apparition]

I think some sort of tutorial to Strike/Task Forces may be needed.  If there's some way of making it mandatory for one character per account (not all characters), that'd be swell.

 

Here's the deal.  I, my friends, and many other Excelsior server players have noticed a trend over the past few months of people disconnecting in the middle of a Strike/Task Force without saying a word to never return, quitting in the middle of a Strike/Task Force without saying a word, or in the middle of a Strike/Task Force say something like, "This was great, thanks for the team." and quickly quit the team.  The people that disconnect in the middle of a Strike/Task Force, I'll do a /getlocalname on their global name a few minutes after they DC, and sure enough most of the times they're playing on another character.  So they switched characters in the middle of a Strike/Task Force without saying a word.

 

My friends and I talked about it, and we have reached the conclusion that many people new to Homecoming and veterans returning to the game after many years have no clue what a Strike/Task Force is and what signing up for one entails.  They essentially think that it's another PI Council radio farm with more variety, where they can join for 20 minutes, get some levels, and leave without saying a word.

 

So I think some sort of mandatory Strike/Task Force tutorial at... say... level ten (again, mandatory for every account, not every character), teaching new players and veterans that haven't played in many years the ways in which they're different from regular missions, AE farms, and PI Council radio farms.  I don't know what that would entail, but IMO something needs to be done 'cause I've kind of gotten sick of now having to expect to lose at least one player on a PUG SF/TF/trial.

[GGamerGirl]

While I do like the idea of a Task/Strike Force tutorial, I do not know how a tutorial will help the situation of people leaving in the middle of Task/Strike Force, or if making one mandatory is the right way to go (even if it is once per account). I usually play in the evening/night, so there are not that many people that are places other than Atlas Park. 

 

I don't know if this is possible, but they could make it impossible for players to log out during a TF (unless bugs, server, AFK, or power outage) and then make them ask the Team Leader if they can leave the TF?

[MTeague]

14 hours ago, GGamerGirl said:

I don't know if this is possible, but they could make it impossible for players to log out during a TF (unless bugs, server, AFK, or power outage) and then make them ask the Team Leader if they can leave the TF?

 

Seventeen kinds of NO for this. 

You can't legislate manners / politeness / common decency.

That's really what the issue is here. There's a fundamental disagreement to exactly what the social compact is when you join a TF, or whether or not there's even a compact at all.

 

I don't quit out of TF's for anything less than an emergency. Holdover from EverQuest / WoW days of "If I joined the raid, well the guildmaster scheduled it from 8-11, and I will be here at LEAST until 11, and won't start getting fussy until 11:30." 

 

But if for some reason, I really needed to go?  Maybe because of a RL emergency? Maybe because I was getting really angry and decided I should walk away before I crossed some lines on what to say and what not?  And the game refused to let me log outt? I'd just kill the process on my machine. Or if I'm REALLY ticked off, I'd outright deny electricity to my computer. Sure. Keep my character logged in if that makes you feel better. I still wouldn't be there. 

 

 

[GGamerGirl]

Ok. Gotcha.

[Apparition]

Yeah, I definitely don't want something that prevents people from logging out during TFs.  Real emergencies pop up, I understand that.  I just think that it's apparent that a large amount of people new to CoH (either new new, or people who played back in 2004 to 2006, stopped playing, and have just returned), legitimately have no idea what a Strike/Task Force is and do not know that they are expected to stay with the SF/TF until it ends.  I'd just like a new tutorial that helps explain that and explain the ramifications of what quitting a SF/TF early are to the rest of the team.  Now they can still be a jerk after and DC or quit SFs/TFs early, but at least they'll know now that they shouldn't.

[BLVD]

I've ran into a few players who've quit a TF because they thought it was a story arc or radio team. I think the best solution to this would be to allow leaders to invite players back to the TF (you can only invite players who were already on the team). This way you can send a tell explaining to them that they're missing out on rewards and an AV fight and they'd likely come back.

 

I think this would also be a QoL improvement because the other day I was leading a Synapse TF and had a teammate go AFK for a long time on the second mission. Since he was still inside, the next mission wouldn't trigger. It would've been great if I could kick him off the team, send a tell explaining the situation, and have a team invite waiting for him when he returned.

Edited April 22, 2021 by tan702

[Apparition]

Yeah, I think there are a whole host of new players to the game who just simply don't know what a SF/TF is.  Lately, half the time when I form one up and advertise in the LFG channel and mention the level range, people will still try to join anyway no matter what level they are.  Like last night, I formed a PUG Barracuda SF, which is level 45+.  I mentioned this in the LFG recruitment message.  I received a tell from someone saying that he was level 22, and asked if he could join anyway.  Last week, I formed a PUG Silver Mantis SF, which is level 20+.  Someone asked me if he could join at level 17, and I had to reply that he couldn't.  The person got mad.

[Herotu]

 

On 4/22/2021 at 5:26 PM, Apparition said:

Yeah, I think there are a whole host of new players to the game who just simply don't know what a SF/TF is.

It seems there is a whole host of new players who don't know what a MISSION is.

 

Ugh, wall of text! Give me TL;DR or give me grinding!!111

 

Let's not forget that many players might not even understand english, so ...  a lot of the story will be wasted on them. Not that you get chance to read stories during task forces anyway ... I'll shut up now.

[Gobbledygook]

Team gathers at Citadel:

 

Apparition: "Any new or returning players? Or anyone whose never done a Task Force?"

 

Gobbledygook: "I've never done one."

 

Apparition: "OK, basically, it's a long string of missions, takes around 45 minutes to complete it."

 

Gobbledygook: "Oh, sorry, don't have that much time. My wife will be home in 30 minutes, which means we'll be arguing in 32 minutes. Thanks anyway."

 

Gobbledygook quits team

 

Apparition in lfg: "Last spot for Citadel TF, we have cookies!"

[SeraphimKensai]

Yeah there's no need to a tutorial if you take it upon yourself to explain the tf to people who have no idea. Making it mandatory no thanks.

 

Way back when....CoX was new TF's would regularly fail. Now almost all of them can be solo'd.

[GraspingVileTerror]

I'm not against more tutorials and better information being provided to players to help them make informed decisions about the way they engage with the game.

Quite to the point; I am very much in support of such initiatives!  Granted, making anything -mandatory- is a tricky thing.  At the very least, there should be a bypass.

 

However, I think the problem originally described here has more to do with:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/29383-hi-thanks-for-joining-youre-my-hostage/

 

I think it's quite likely that players are joining, then finding the team to not be to their liking since there are plenty of variables at play, and then attempting a socially low-impact exit strategy to go and play in a manner which is more agreeable to them.  Communicating expectations before hitting "Agree to Form Task/Strike Force" and providing players the information they need to make a fully informed decision is best placed on the individual who has the power to set the options that define those expectations.

You know:  Great power, great responsibility.  Yatta yatta.  

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

I'm not against more tutorials and better information being provided to players to help them make informed decisions about the way they engage with the game.

Quite to the point; I am very much in support of such initiatives!  Granted, making anything -mandatory- is a tricky thing.  At the very least, there should be a bypass.

 

However, I think the problem originally described here has more to do with:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/29383-hi-thanks-for-joining-youre-my-hostage/

 

I think it's quite likely that players are joining, then finding the team to not be to their liking since there are plenty of variables at play, and then attempting a socially low-impact exit strategy to go and play in a manner which is more agreeable to them.  Communicating expectations before hitting "Agree to Form Task/Strike Force" and providing players the information they need to make a fully informed decision is best placed on the individual who has the power to set the options that define those expectations.

You know:  Great power, great responsibility.  Yatta yatta.  

 

 

I doubt it.  When I form TFs/SFs/Trials with PUGs, I either advertise them as "speedy" or "+x steamroll/kill through," with the x being 1 through four.  They just legitimately have no idea what a TF/SF/Trial is and think that they're signing up for something like radio/newspaper missions.

[Mr. Vee]

Would like to see something like this as well, though I'm not sure what form I'd want it to take. There do seem to be a lot of new players on excel (idk about elsewhere, I just moved from indom a couple months ago and don't remember it much there) who seem to think TFs are just missions. I had someone "thanks for team" after 3 missions of Kal the other day to a chorus of "wait it's like 3 more minutes". I guess just being more hand-holdy as a leader would work but it's already enough to deal with recruiting, setting mish, responding to late tells etc. when your team's waiting to go and a lot of us already don't particularly like leading. Would definitely be nice if everyone knew the score. 

[Apparition]

52 minutes ago, Mr. Vee said:

Would like to see something like this as well, though I'm not sure what form I'd want it to take. There do seem to be a lot of new players on excel (idk about elsewhere, I just moved from indom a couple months ago and don't remember it much there) who seem to think TFs are just missions. I had someone "thanks for team" after 3 missions of Kal the other day to a chorus of "wait it's like 3 more minutes". I guess just being more hand-holdy as a leader would work but it's already enough to deal with recruiting, setting mish, responding to late tells etc. when your team's waiting to go and a lot of us already don't particularly like leading. Would definitely be nice if everyone knew the score. 

 

Yep.  It seems to be getting worse as time goes on.  My guess is that newbies are attracted to Excelsior since it has the largest population by far, but then are caught up in some bad habits from the numerous AE/radio/newspaper farms.

 

Besides, I have had complaints from people that I explain too much during TFs/SFs/Trials.  Danged if you do, danged if you don’t.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Apparition

[MTeague]

10 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

Apparition in lfg: "Last spot for Citadel TF, we have cookies!"

 

But the important issue is, what kind of cookies are we talking? 

Toll House?  Oreo?  Oatmeal Raisin?  Peanut Butter cookies?  This could make or break people's decision to join. 

[Apparition]

32 minutes ago, MTeague said:

 

But the important issue is, what kind of cookies are we talking? 

Toll House?  Oreo?  Oatmeal Raisin?  Peanut Butter cookies?  This could make or break people's decision to join. 

 

If they are mine, they’re peanut butter cookies.

[Gobbledygook]

42 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

If they are mine, they’re peanut butter cookies.

 

I'm fine with that, I prefer kill most TF's.

You form it though.

[Turric]

Indom is having this issue as well. I have noticed it for about 3 months now. Even when the population is up in the middle of the afternoon, 150+ online, it is very difficult to get a full team for anything. I do a lot of PUG groups for radios, DA or task forces and it feels like half the players are very new to the game and do not understand how some things work.

 

The other day there was an instance of someone advertising for Moonfire. A person asks what level and then says he is too high for that so he could not go. A chorus of people inform him that he would be lowered down to the appropriate level, but this person could not grasp why on Earth he would want to do that. And he was insulting about it when people tried to explain it to him. I almost felt like he might be trolling people but it seemed more like belligerent ignorance which I thought was pretty weird for this game.

[Razor Cure]

Torchbearer here. I think I have only seen people leave mid tf twice since CoX came back. I didn't check their globals or anything, so I guess they could have switched rather than dc'd.

As for explaining what a TF is to team mates before hand..sure that works, but as App says..some people get pissy about that too!

 

Suggestions

As is, a task force only gives info to the team leader, being the contact text and LFG info (which is VERY vague, other than 'challenging), so if a person does not know the TF, they really have no clue whats going on. Make every tf start with a pop up (think SBB: role explained) that goes to every member, with at least some outline of what is going on (highlighting that quitting mid tf means you cant come back and no reward) and perhaps some description of the tough bits.

That description would be great for the less meh/babysteps tfs (ie: just about all the TFC ones), because there are a few that end with relatively crazy (crazy for new players) fights. I remember doing a Renault way way back when I started on CoV. We spent almost 3 hours on it, and failed. We had 2 MMs, and they were next to useless on that last fight, with the water spouts bouncing everyone all over. A fight like that, that basically renders an entire AT useless, is just a load of rubbish. Dont get me wrong, that fight IS epic, as are many of the redside SF battles. but if I was a new player on an MM, and ended up doing that..

[Wavicle]

Maybe the game simply should put a pop up Ok button with dialogue indicating the expectations when the leader starts the tf, just like it does for itrials and dfb and such.

[Ghost]

A giant HELL NO for a forced tutorial

 

Create a system where you are either logged off for a set amount of time if you quit mid task force - or a set time where you cant join/form or be invited to another team, would be great IMO.

 

While we are at it - how about a way that TF leader can decide if someone who logs off during a TF gets the rewards  - maybe a simple pop up at the end ?

I've been on two of the longer Task Forces, in which the same person joined and then quietly logged off mid way through.  

If something comes up - thats understandable, but to join with the intention of logging and then receiving the rewards later, is just plain sorry.

 

 

[bodenee]

On 6/9/2021 at 11:59 PM, Razor Cure said:

Torchbearer here. I think I have only seen people leave mid tf twice since CoX came back. I didn't check their globals or anything, so I guess they could have switched rather than dc'd.

As for explaining what a TF is to team mates before hand..sure that works, but as App says..some people get pissy about that too!

 

Suggestions

As is, a task force only gives info to the team leader, being the contact text and LFG info (which is VERY vague, other than 'challenging), so if a person does not know the TF, they really have no clue whats going on. Make every tf start with a pop up (think SBB: role explained) that goes to every member, with at least some outline of what is going on (highlighting that quitting mid tf means you cant come back and no reward) and perhaps some description of the tough bits.

That description would be great for the less meh/babysteps tfs (ie: just about all the TFC ones), because there are a few that end with relatively crazy (crazy for new players) fights. I remember doing a Renault way way back when I started on CoV. We spent almost 3 hours on it, and failed. We had 2 MMs, and they were next to useless on that last fight, with the water spouts bouncing everyone all over. A fight like that, that basically renders an entire AT useless, is just a load of rubbish. Dont get me wrong, that fight IS epic, as are many of the redside SF battles. but if I was a new player on an MM, and ended up doing that..

 

While on a TF, UNLESS it's the first time your toon has run it,  I'd like to see an end to the "call contact... ask about available missions,  and then selecting it"   I mean, C'mon!  It's a TF!  You can't choose any different mission than the next one... why do I have to CLICK on it to choose it?  True,  there's the story line and dialogue that ONLY the leader can see and read,  BUT if it's the umpteenth time you've run it why do you have to do it?  It should be readily available and waypointed as you finish the prior mission... 'specially if you've already done it once on that toon!  Maybe an option at the begining to op out of the extra 2 clix to continue?

 

[Razor Cure]

11 hours ago, bodenee said:

It should be readily available and waypointed as you finish the prior mission... 'specially if you've already done it once on that toon!  Maybe an option at the begining to op out of the extra 2 clix to continue?

 

I guess it is to stop people going afk, coming back, and have others finish half the TF without em. I mean..is it THAT much of an effort to call the contact after each mission? There is already a few tfs that auto set the next mission at different points.

But yeah, having it as an option would be great for running it with friends.