Please revert the Rage change.

[Burnt Toast]

That is just silly. That's like saying nerf Hasten and Stamina because someone will have Ageless.

1. Not everyone has a Destiny power even in level 50+ content.

2. Forcing people to rely on others to not die when your specific role is to make it so others don't die by maintaining aggro is ridiculous.

3. The "fix" was abandoned on Live as it was deemed punitive by the Paragon Devs and the beta testers.

4. Without Rage (since that is an option) SS because one of the lower damaging sets due to the high resistance of s/l by enemies.

 

If you had actually played a SS on Live and now you would see how absolutely stupid this change is...and how it has caused many people to abandon their character and/or the Homecoming server.

 

 

 

Personally, i think its fine the way it is...with T4 incarnates, someone in your raid should have Barrier.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Hi Im new.

 

this is my 1st post. I have carefully read this entire thread. It appears many aren't happy with this change to SS. I played SS on live and remember many of the changes they did to "rage". There are many different ways this issue could be addressed.

 

1. Make rage an end heavy toggle

2. Reduce the benefits and/or detriments of Rage for the sake of "balance"

3. Change the detriment to something like -hp to affect all classes equally while making the crash less lethal

4. Revert to live or Keep as is.

 

Perhaps a Vote is in order?

[Fista]

Man, just take it back to live. It worked for how many years there? As some on above said the current team should at least look at it on the beta server. Any way we can petition the Devs to make this happen?

[Burnt Toast]

Unfortunately the damage has been done and people have moved away from HC because of this "fix." I know the 5 friends that left HC won't come back because they think the "devs" are a bit too heavy handed with the nerfs. I have other friends who have already deleted their SS toons and play less and less because that was their main toon. I hope in the future the devs do more testing and get more feedback on things; especially such game changing things as this "fix" was....

 

 

Man, just take it back to live. It worked for how many years there? As some on above said the current team should at least look at it on the beta server. Any way we can petition the Devs to make this happen?

[SwitchFade]

Unfortunately the damage has been done and people have moved away from HC because of this "fix." I know the 5 friends that left HC won't come back because they think the "devs" are a bit too heavy handed with the nerfs. I have other friends who have already deleted their SS toons and play less and less because that was their main toon. I hope in the future the devs do more testing and get more feedback on things; especially such game changing things as this "fix" was....

 

 

Man, just take it back to live. It worked for how many years there? As some on above said the current team should at least look at it on the beta server. Any way we can petition the Devs to make this happen?

 

That seems..... As though they cut off their noses to spite their faces.

 

I mean, it's one power and one set. Enjoy the rest of the game, come to the forums and make your case. I'd be willing to bet the HC team is flexible. Maybe your acquaintances are a bit.... Melodramatic?

[Nixeras]

 

That seems..... As though they cut off their noses to spite their faces.

 

I mean, it's one power and one set. Enjoy the rest of the game, come to the forums and make your case. I'd be willing to bet the HC team is flexible. Maybe your acquaintances are a bit.... Melodramatic?

 

It's a common saying in the D&D community but I feel it applies to many games. "Better no game than a bad game." Especially considering HC isn't the only server anymore. There are alternatives.

[Vanden]

 

That seems..... As though they cut off their noses to spite their faces.

 

I mean, it's one power and one set. Enjoy the rest of the game, come to the forums and make your case. I'd be willing to bet the HC team is flexible. Maybe your acquaintances are a bit.... Melodramatic?

 

It's a common saying in the D&D community but I feel it applies to many games. "Better no game than a bad game." Especially considering HC isn't the only server anymore. There are alternatives.

 

Weeell...

[Blastit]

Unfortunately the damage has been done and people have moved away from HC because of this "fix." I know the 5 friends that left HC won't come back because they think the "devs" are a bit too heavy handed with the nerfs. I have other friends who have already deleted their SS toons and play less and less because that was their main toon. I hope in the future the devs do more testing and get more feedback on things; especially such game changing things as this "fix" was....

 

It appears to be a bug fix. With the ongoing work on snipe powers, the devs so far have shown themselves open not only to changing things that aren't good enough but also to listening to feedback based both on power level and feel. If Super Strength is a bad set without Rage and too punishing with Rage then that seems to me like an obvious thing to eventually change.

[JusticeEagle]

Come on everyone, I am easily one of the most vocal about fixing Rage, but the HC team isn't trying to mess with us, nor are they being "heavy handed" or anything else. They are volunteering their time and money so we can play CoH, let's not forget that.

[_NOPE_]

As far as people leaving HC, I'll just say this. I just logged off a moment ago, after seeing Independence Port FULL. I've NEVER seen Independence Port full, even during live.

[Fista]

As far as people leaving HC, I'll just say this. I just logged off a moment ago, after seeing Independence Port FULL. I've NEVER seen Independence Port full, even during live.

 

Right? Multiple instances of Kings, Steel Talos, and IP?  Madness.

 

But yeah. The need to unfix their bug fix.

[SwitchFade]

Come on everyone, I am easily one of the most vocal about fixing Rage, but the HC team isn't trying to mess with us, nor are they being "heavy handed" or anything else. They are volunteering their time and money so we can play CoH, let's not forget that.

 

This x 10

[Mantidae]

Unfortunately the damage has been done and people have moved away from HC because of this "fix." I know the 5 friends that left HC won't come back because they think the "devs" are a bit too heavy handed with the nerfs. I have other friends who have already deleted their SS toons and play less and less because that was their main toon. I hope in the future the devs do more testing and get more feedback on things; especially such game changing things as this "fix" was....

 

 

Man, just take it back to live. It worked for how many years there? As some on above said the current team should at least look at it on the beta server. Any way we can petition the Devs to make this happen?

 

That seems..... As though they cut off their noses to spite their faces.

 

I mean, it's one power and one set. Enjoy the rest of the game, come to the forums and make your case. I'd be willing to bet the HC team is flexible. Maybe your acquaintances are a bit.... Melodramatic?

 

 

I'm not unsympathetic.  I was playing a Regen scrapper during the period where Crypitc was continually nerfing the set.  When Emmertt showed his recording of how Regen was "broken" and we discovered that Cryptic's internal testing was out of date with the live game, I left and didn't come back until he was gone.  If I had that choice to jump to another company at the time I would done so in a heartbeat. 

 

I'm not going to go chasing down servers now: I don't have time, my friends are here and HC has done an Amazing (50) job in all other respects.  However, I won't be down on anyone who chooses otherwise. 

 

 

 

Come on everyone, I am easily one of the most vocal about fixing Rage, but the HC team isn't trying to mess with us, nor are they being "heavy handed" or anything else. They are volunteering their time and money so we can play CoH, let's not forget that.

 

 

This is true of course but that doesn't mean we can't question their decisions.  I'm going to park my SS characters until I see how this all shakes out.  That annoys me since I enjoy the look and sound of the set (Footstomp never gets old) plus it fits those characters well.  Altitis will tide me over until then.

[Burnt Toast]

Or they simply wanted to play their favorite character from Live the way they were without any nerf/fix. Now that they hav emoved to an Issue 24 server they are doing just that. They wanted to play a character the way it was when the game was live... not melodramatic... just what they want to do. If such a huge "fix" were done to my favorite character I would probabkly go to a different server as well that allowed me to play the way I did for years. I just think the HC team needs to be careful about making too many changes (especially nerfs) too fast... There was no feedback allowed on this change.. no beta server... they just took limited information..swung a big hard bat... and did what they thought should be done to a power which had already had MONTHS of internal testing and feedback on Live. It is changes like that - that make people uneasy about the future of their character(s). Let's just hope no further "fixes" are implemented without beta feedback.

 

Unfortunately the damage has been done and people have moved away from HC because of this "fix." I know the 5 friends that left HC won't come back because they think the "devs" are a bit too heavy handed with the nerfs. I have other friends who have already deleted their SS toons and play less and less because that was their main toon. I hope in the future the devs do more testing and get more feedback on things; especially such game changing things as this "fix" was....

 

 

Man, just take it back to live. It worked for how many years there? As some on above said the current team should at least look at it on the beta server. Any way we can petition the Devs to make this happen?

 

That seems..... As though they cut off their noses to spite their faces.

 

I mean, it's one power and one set. Enjoy the rest of the game, come to the forums and make your case. I'd be willing to bet the HC team is flexible. Maybe your acquaintances are a bit.... Melodramatic?

[MalphiteMeIRL]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the SS change was intentional. I think it was just a side effect from other bugfixes.

 

Easy enough to remove the -def which would revert it to it's live state.

 

Either way I'm going to give the HC team the benefit of a doubt. They've done fairly good so far all things considered.

[Widower]

Just to set some parameters here:

 

1. My understanding is that the change in question was part of a larger powers system revamp that fixed a lot of stacking bugs affecting other powers. Rage wasn't the target but was unintended collateral damage.

 

2. The bugfix isn't going to be rolled back. Not only would it break other things again but I'm not sure it can be reasonably disentangled from the rest of the powers system enhancements.

 

3. -20% Def is hugely punishing to specific powersets while affecting others much less.

 

4. Rebalancing Rage is absolutely on the table if we get some good ideas to keep it as an interesting, distinctive power for Super Strength.

 

This appears to have gotten lost in the shuffle. I would ask people to keep it in mind - the fix isn't going away, so how can Rage/SS as a whole be made better, in your opinion?

[Vanden]

Just remove the defense debuff. It puts Rage back where it was for the majority of players on Live, without requiring any big balance changes.

[Primantis]

It is changes like that - that make people uneasy about the future of their character(s). Let's just hope no further "fixes" are implemented without beta feedback.

 

 

Aye the precedent that it sets is more profound than the actual nerf/bug fix.

 

However they have been shown to listen to and consider feedback on the Beta server forums. At least in regards to the snipe changes. Doing a lot of back pedaling after much public outcry. So I am hopeful that this was an oversight or an outlier, and that they might still change it back in the future.

 

So they might not be as "blindly nerfing" as people seem to think.. When was this change put into place anyway? Was it put into place on the private SCORE servers or sometime after HC's launch?

 

 

-Edit

 

I just saw the GM response above me. Seems the 'fix' isn't leaving but they are open to tweaking SS in other ways to make up for it! So give em that feedback.

[Widower]

So they might not be as "blindly nerfing" as people seem to think.. When was this change put into place anyway? Was it put into place on the private SCORE servers or sometime after HC's launch?

 

As far as I can tell, the fix was very early on SCORE - probably six years ago.

[MalphiteMeIRL]

Just remove the defense debuff. It puts Rage back where it was for the majority of players on Live, without requiring any big balance changes.

 

I'd like to parrot this again. That would allow it to function exactly as it did on live without getting in the way of any bug fixes.

[Mantidae]

Just to set some parameters here:

 

1. My understanding is that the change in question was part of a larger powers system revamp that fixed a lot of stacking bugs affecting other powers. Rage wasn't the target but was unintended collateral damage.

 

2. The bugfix isn't going to be rolled back. Not only would it break other things again but I'm not sure it can be reasonably disentangled from the rest of the powers system enhancements.

 

3. -20% Def is hugely punishing to specific powersets while affecting others much less.

 

4. Rebalancing Rage is absolutely on the table if we get some good ideas to keep it as an interesting, distinctive power for Super Strength.

 

This appears to have gotten lost in the shuffle. I would ask people to keep it in mind - the fix isn't going away, so how can Rage/SS as a whole be made better, in your opinion?

 

 

A useful reminder.  My answer though is that "interesting and distinctive" is less important than "doesn't kill the user."  If they can't remove the defuff without breaking something else then making it resitible in some way might help.

[ShardWarrior]

The reasoning is that you rage out, then get exhausted and become weaker and more vulnerable. You're tired so you can't punch quite as hard and you can't dodge things as well.

 

Yeah, I get that... as I said, it doesn't provide a +DEF buff.  It doesn't make sense that it would now come with a -DEF debuff.  That makes using it on tanks/brutes with defense based sets useless.  It's a stupid change that needs to be removed.  The end drop and -DMG debuff are enough.

[ShardWarrior]

This appears to have gotten lost in the shuffle. I would ask people to keep it in mind - the fix isn't going away, so how can Rage/SS as a whole be made better, in your opinion?

 

Removing the -DEF debuff on Rage would make the set better.  It is making SS totally useless on sets that rely on defense.

[marcussmythe]

Id be down for removing the defense crash (but retaining the damage crash).  What does it look like compared to other tank sets, DPS wise, if were running perma-rage?  Double-Rage?  Triple-Rage? 

 

 

[JusticeEagle]

Just to set some parameters here:

 

1. My understanding is that the change in question was part of a larger powers system revamp that fixed a lot of stacking bugs affecting other powers. Rage wasn't the target but was unintended collateral damage.

 

2. The bugfix isn't going to be rolled back. Not only would it break other things again but I'm not sure it can be reasonably disentangled from the rest of the powers system enhancements.

 

3. -20% Def is hugely punishing to specific powersets while affecting others much less.

 

4. Rebalancing Rage is absolutely on the table if we get some good ideas to keep it as an interesting, distinctive power for Super Strength.

 

This appears to have gotten lost in the shuffle. I would ask people to keep it in mind - the fix isn't going away, so how can Rage/SS as a whole be made better, in your opinion?

 

A little clarification on this would be helpful. So as others have pointed out, the Def crash can be completely removed without affecting the bug fix, restoring SS to where it was on live for all intents and purposes. So are you saying that just the bug fix won't be rolled back, but getting rid of the Def crash is a viable option, or that the Def crash is staying, and you want other solutions completely?